capitalism

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  • colin_s12

    i'm pretty sure most people on this board remember "the good internet" - the newstoday days when everything online seemed wonderful - instead of the drag it is now. what happened? capitalism.

    i was thinking about this while listening to the radio yesterday (yes i do this) and the DJ ended their on-air segment trying to sell something or other, and my brain just cringed. every single communication in America seems transactional at this point.

    the internet, back in those early years, though shopping was an aspect of it, it was largely everything BUT capitalism. it was creative, free-for-all, experimental, engaging ... now it's been driven to the dirt by monetizing everything from clicks to forums to podcasts to user pages etc.

    the internet sucks and that should be all the examples we need that capitalism has overstayed its welcome: in a single generation this marvelous opportunity for democracy and humanity in general has been turned into a shopping mall where humans themselves are as much a resource as anything else. and for what? memes?

    • Even worse when you add in cellular data and geo targeting. Only going to get worse.
      *shakes fist, IT AINT NATURAL
      BonSeff
    • it's an evolution. at the start someone needed to invent how to make money with it, once proved it could be made, the investors pumped money in ituan
    • then they protected their interests with corporatism. now society is seeing the negative effects and are testing different strategies to make it work better.uan
    • it's in development still, has always been, next 10 years will show if we get better at using it and might even feel like the first humanist vibe it can has.uan
    • USA does seem to be super selling all the time society.shapesalad
    • I think the problem here may be more of a question of getting rid of the bad Internets and keeping the good Internets.sted
    • that sentence has all the meme u need.sted
    • agreed, but it is quite a cynical view. the internet is still amazing.inteliboy
    • I'd also say the death of the internet we loved was because of narcissism.inteliboy
    • I'm still recoiling from the idea that people take duckface selfies, post them to show the world how great they are, and call themselves 'influencers'inteliboy
    • It's far more repulsive and destructive than websites and content creators figuring out how to make ad revenue.inteliboy
    • Nostalgic nonsense.hotroddy
    • @colin_s what should catalyze the evolution: war or consumption?sted
    • i'm fine with consumption:access to content whatever it is, jokes, products, friends, qbn, access to work and sale on global scale isn't a bad thing.sted
    • all of this made possible by generations of engineers and developers on a network what has underground, ground and near-earth level infrastructure.sted
    • @inteliboy in the past decade how many people got connected and addicted in the same way when you first opened the internet we loved? :Dsted
    • not sure capitalism is at fault in anyway. trading value for value vs what alternative? Being told and given only what you can have. Has the freedom of capitalideathboy
    • sm or that it provides been abused and let to rampant consumerism. Like blaming alcohol sales for alcoholism.deathboy
    • and i think advertising and media reinforce a cultural value system of where shit floats to the top and trends.... so much more than blame capitalism meme...deathboy
    • why cringe if someone is trying to sell you something? are people not allowed to earn a living? or should they wait on a government check instead?hotroddy
    • as far as death to the internet goes. 1) iphone and movement to make mobile replacement for desktop. 2) business capitalizing on new niche and selling the ideadeathboy
    • 3) ppl adopting mobile first platform 4) while this all happened social networks reinforced mobile and hooked users with dopamine filled thumbs upsdeathboy
    • 5) everyone under the same platform and human laziness of following and being spoonfed what pleases them decreases exploration and desire to produce outsidedeathboy
    • the social networks, instead forcing to integrate and conform for the same dopamine rewards and values of said networks.deathboy
    • 6) soon develop a boring closed loop system of conformity and control, where everything is derivative and fake. where everyone is scared to develop outside masdeathboy
    • s appeal or standards and you get this watered down lowest common denominator stuff. that you can hardly be excited about or dislike. its just enough likedeathboy
    • to be like ok like the marvel film formula, and by being the only thing creates its own inflated ok lets feel good about this feedback loop.deathboy
    • you see it in gold addys wordpress themes, like well something needs to win. Judges not knowing how to choose one from the next. Accept believing their owndeathboy
    • authority in such things push it all forward and helps reinforce the systemsdeathboy
    • accessibility... its like forcing everyone to have a wheel chair ramp to everything. of course it will look like all the same shit. the more freedom youdeathboy
    • can expect better stuff, more range and expression. hard for web to grow in a cage.deathboy
    • that´s to dramatic - it became commercial more useful, but also the creative outflow is magnified, when i think of tutorials -communities - communications.neverscared
    • Just like this place, nothing better to talk to someone IRLi_was
    • 6) soon develop a boring closed loop system of conformity and control

      That's clearly QBN
      i_was
    • it's all 'cause Jobs killed Flashformed
    • All good things come to a trend.Bluejam
    • Welcome to QBN AOC. Another brilliant argument you are making. Please stop unleashing your mind bendingHayoth
    • Brilliance on us. It's hard to keep up with your top level genius skills.Hayoth
    • @hayoth I blame fascicommusocialismfadein11
    • @intelliboy influencers and that lot are all products of capitalism - doing anything to acquire power / profit from the consumer lifestylecolin_s
    • still a huge amount of stuff in the old spirit, it's just slightly harder to find. This is a the natural progression of any media unfort.fadein11
    • Let's go back to BBS!robotron3k
    • w/out capitalism we wouldn't have nearly the advancement in technology we've had these last 100+ years—but yeah—shit all over it cuz your bored of the web :-/PonyBoy
    • *you'rePonyBoy
    • without the version of capitalism we now have, all that technological advancement would likely be much more technologically advanced.MrT
    • Prove that MrT.PonyBoy
    • Not sure I would agree that the internet as it exists today is 100% capitalism. Most of the big sites like Reddit or YouTube are free to use and and basedyuekit
    • around either user-generated content or reposting commercial content without regard to copyright. Sure they try to monetize using ads but neither ofyuekit
    • those sites are profitable yet. It's a weird mix of capitalism and free sharing/open source, maybe evolving towards something else in the future.yuekit
    • its just free because you pay with all your data like what you see what you do on youtube or facebook... sites would not be profitable without it.api
    • ukit of course internet isnt 100% capitalistic, but your examples paint 100% its trading value for value nature. you just might overlook values as monetary gaindeathboy
    • the argument want for your view with internet is based on the infrastructure, ma bell, same as utilities. as far as companies go that operate on the webdeathboy
    • that is more about rules and regulations of investments, and ability to acquire capital at losses in loose monetary policy or through passive investments ofdeathboy
    • of fools. You should read Huxleys Island. All value isnt about money, however its hard to develop a free society that trades in value outside something as moneydeathboy
    • money has liquidity. and all value needs liquidity in ability to trade value for value in dynamic rangedeathboy
  • kingsteven15

    • lol. The cubans and venezuelans are the ones burning woodsticks for fuel. the peasants in the USA are driving a 2019 ford focus.hotroddy
    • https://i.ibb.co/c2k…pango
    • how about forget all the ism and just take care of people?pango
    • https://i.imgur.com/…kingsteven
    • https://is.gd/NxA1Kv…kingsteven
    • < the original of this cartoon is much better tbf, feel bad for modifying it.kingsteven
    • norway.. a country that wouldn't exist today without the USAhotroddy
    • the soviets liberated Norway you fucking spoon.kingsteven
    • and eventually become part of the USSRhotroddy
    • or part of the iron curtainhotroddy
    • !!!kingsteven
    • norway is high on the oil hog with little industry. however there best investments have been in the US tech stocks.deathboy
    • see how long it last. without much diversity they are really susceptible to changedeathboy
    • remember the great butter crisisdeathboy
    • Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Norway all have comparable life standards. What part does oil play in the economies of Denmark and Sweden. Nonedrgs
    • Without oil Norway would be slightly worse off, but still on par with the rest of the Nordics, which are arguably the spearhead of the whole first worlddrgs
    • Anyway, socialism works well among like-minded or in groups with shared identity. This is a requirement. US is a pirate wharf of random immigrants, fuck emdrgs
    • in other words socialism works within a single like minded tribe with plentiful assets. sweden, denmark, finland wealth was created from somethingdeathboy
    • wasn't created on how much it could divide. have their current social systems created growth and even more prosperity? or more dwindling inheritance?deathboy
    • for such a diverse nations of pirate wharfs to dominate and elevate the entire human species but not give free healthcare... which is better?deathboy
    • what are the large achievements of nordic countries industries in the last 40 years vs freer economic systems?deathboy
    • but i do agree socialism works like within an ant colony of drones. I don't see humans as drones, despite social conditioningdeathboy
    • biology is so far different and the short sightedness of leaders thinking or trying to control us through media and stimuli will always faildeathboy
    • china is a far better examples of success than nordic countries in the model, but success is finite with age, as we even see in nordic countries.deathboy
    • its failing system that sucks in resources and brings larger groups down, but think of it as a season and from its ashes more free trade will spring updeathboy
    • Not socialism though. Jeezfadein11
    • ya... china is not exactly socialism any more. whatever they are...pango
    • china is what the future is going to look like:
      1 political party that manages a capitalist model in the name of socialism
      hotroddy
    • coin a new term for china's new exact ism pango. I have no definition to define its exact changing nature. it highly collective and anti individualdeathboy
    • but really want to try and wring any gains it can from individuals in free markets. socialism, fscism, communism of the popular three collective politcial typedeathboy
    • are only slightly different in directions but methods all the same. Collective control for a small minorities selfish goals. ppl are merely players on a boarddeathboy
  • utopian3

    The wealth of America's three richest families grew by 6,000% since 1982

    The three wealthiest US families are the Waltons of Walmart, the Mars candy family and the Koch brothers, heirs to the country’s second largest private company, the energy conglomerate Koch Industries. These are all enterprises built by the grandparents and parents of today’s wealthy heirs and heiresses.

    These three families own a combined fortune of $348.7bn, which is 4m times the median wealth of a US family.

    Since 1982, these three families have seen their wealth increase nearly 6,000%, factoring in inflation. Meanwhile, the median household wealth went down 3% over the same period.

    The dynastic wealth of the Walton family grew from $690m in 1982 (or $1.81bn in 2018 dollars) to $169.7bn in 2018, a mind-numbing increase of more than 9,000%.

    The top three wealthiest billionaires in the US – Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates and Warren Buffett – now have as much wealth as the bottom half of the US population combined.

    https://www.theguardian.com/comm…

    • fucked up - solution is simple boycott these families and try and shop 'smart'(er)mugwart
    • solution is simple https://is.gd/bFgKkL…kingsteven
    • perhaps solution is when they die, no money can be passed to family, becomes public company, money is divided equally amongst population.shapesalad
    • of course for that to happened, you need politicians that can't be bought by someone very rich. Thus we find ourselves spiralling in greed towards hell.shapesalad
    • tax wealth not profit. I don't mind rich people getting tax breaks if their money is actually doing something. Tax billionaire inheritance and dumb luck.Fax_Benson
    • Also a show-off tax. Tax anything that increases in value because of a publicly-financed infrastructure project.Fax_Benson
    • "Walmart employs an astounding 2.1 million people. In the United States alone United States alone, the company employs 1.4 million people."Morning_star
    • It's all relative. 170bn in hands of a family is a fortune whil in hands of 300m of Americans it translates to measly $550/person.pr2
    • wonder if inheritance tax only the rich would help? That money can only and only go to improving the well being of the country .... can only see plot holes!mugwart
    • ^ brilliant solution. But how to implement???Projectile
    • There already is an inheritance tax, and has been. Trump just doubled the exemption, of course. His father also scammed the system out of paying this for hisformed
    • kids. But the GOP's mentality of "don't tax the "job" creators" and the lack of any belief that people should pay their fair share, it will keep getting worse.formed
    • and yet we prefer to fight each other cos reasonsrobthelad
    • and yet, the Republicans still want to deregulate the banking markets like the corrupt, greedy fucks they aremonospaced
    • and even worse, the voting base goes around saying deregulation is a good thing, not realizing it will fuck them in the ass hard, like it did beforemonospaced
    • They wealthy elite need additional tax cuts, and they're going to get it.utopian
    • stop counting other peoples money you resentful cunts.hotroddy
    • nothing resentful here only a group of people understanding meaning of the word "obscene" .pr2
    • I doubt wether there's one person here who doesn't fall into the 1%. And what i see is virtue signalling to the echo chamber. Words like obscene and greedy...Morning_star
    • ...banded around with suggestions that the government should just steal the wealthy elite's money. Not one person has their spotlight on the the poor...Morning_star
    • ...and needy. Those people in our cities and communities that we can help with a little bit of effort. It's true what Orwell said...the middle class...Morning_star
    • ...socialists doesn't love the poor they just hate the rich.Morning_star
    • The government have no power over the money because all the money is held privately, and the people with the money run the government. Solution = Rebellion?robthelad
    • Rebellion, really? How many dead rich folk is enough? And where's the cut off, Ten, a thousand, ten thousand? Can I keep my Spotify subscription or will i...Morning_star
    • ...have to share it 'cause that's gonna fuck me right off.Morning_star
    • shapesalad: that's just a stupid suggestion. If I want to give my children my money that's my business. Fuck any government that says otherwise.zarkonite
    • This notion of making rules to prevent inheritance is completely flawed, whatever you put in place there will be loopholes found over time. And again it's thezarkonite
    • those who can't afford "tax planning" that will suffer.zarkonite
    • Kingsteven nailed it in the 2nd postGnash
    • well, my rule would be applied to co's/fam worth 1bn+. Of course, they would all be enticed to China/Russia etc to avoid the tax.shapesalad
    • "virtue signalling to the echo chamber" lol gotta love right wing buzzwords. But... trickle down economics!The_Reprisalizer
    • @Shapesalad. 'enticed to China/Russia' how ironic ;)

      @The Reprisalizer. how is that right wing?
      Morning_star
    • trickle down economics works. Business have money to pay me when they don't have to pay the IRS. And have a bigger budget to hire you for your shitty serviceshotroddy
    • ^ Lol saying "trickle down economics works" under a post about 3 families' wealth increasing 6000%. Fucking boot lickerThe_Reprisalizer
    • And calling criticism of the Kock brothers "virtue signalling" is too funny, considering how often right wing talk about "liberal elites" and Soros fundingThe_Reprisalizer
    • You guys are freaking out about their wealth but we are WAY better off than under any other system of government that's ever existed. In the 15th century, thezarkonite
    • elite was wealthier, you had no rights and even your life wasn't worth a damn. What exactly is the problem here? you don't like your job? you feel you shouldzarkonite
    • get paid more for your labour?zarkonite
    • @The_Reprisalizer. You seem to be under the impression that life, politics and the distribution of wealth needs to be fair. How's that work out for communism?Morning_star
  • i_monk6

    Slave labor camps are supplying American fashion brands

    https://www.fastcompany.com/9041…

    The New York Times says that more than a million Uyghurs have been forcibly held in camps and subject to political indoctrination. A United Nations human rights panel said that Uyghurs were being detained in a “massive internment camp that is shrouded in secrecy.” The Chinese government refers to these camps as “vocational training centers.” New evidence has emerged that some of these Uyghurs being coerced to work in factories that make apparel and clothing—and may supply American retailers.

    • deathboy is going to have an aneurysmutopian
    • < This is what communism delivers.Morning_star
    • @morning_star no it's what power and corruption deliver.colin_s
    • @colin_s. It's funny how this thread confuses power and corruption for Capitalism yet the same uncharitable definition isn't appropriate for Communism. Oh....Morning_star
    • ...well, is it warm and comforting in that echo chamber of yours.Morning_star
    • Slave labour is the apotheosis of capitalism. China practices State Capitalism and has since the late 70s or 80s.i_monk
    • Every country practices State Capitalism to some extent or another. I wonder if those folk who perished in the Gulags realised they were victims of capitalism.Morning_star
    • china used state capitalism to move 1 billion into middle class and the gov't is composed of oligarchs.hotroddy
    • and you can look to cuba as another instance of state slavery.hotroddy
    • What's the link between capitalism and this? Slave labour pre-dates even agriculture... this is more like colonialism if anything.zarkonite
    • Interesting note: There are about 10M Uyghurs in Xinjiang, Estimates say 1.5M or 1 in 6 adults interned, mostly males, so 1/3rd of adult males are interned.monNom
    • Which sounds like the majority of the young men have been removed from society, from working, from starting families... it's all a bit genocidey IMOmonNom
    • You can't reason with the qbn communists morning.Hayoth
    • They do this shit in the USA, no?ben_
    • lol utopiandeathboy
    • They call it prison labour in the USA. Protesting/refusing to work is met with indefinite solitary confinement.i_monk
  • utopian5

    Good Oldé Capitalism at Work Here Folks

    God Bless Big Tobacco and The GOP for their All Their Support!

    #ThoughtsAndPrayers

    • in this age of easy access to knowledge, thinking that inhaling vaporized oil and shit into ones lungs would not have consequences is rather stupidGnash
    • hmm no source... have you noticed the pivot to non licensed stuff being smoked... very curiosu who is paying for these studies if its the original juul and lookdeathboy
    • ing for ways to constrict competition. as far as we know of the 450 in 33 states there in no comon cause of product or anything jsut they vaped.deathboy
    • My intial skepticism makes me curious how many people are hospitlaized each year for a "breathing illness" in total un vape tagged...deathboy
    • i feel strongly like there is a false positive lobbying study being pushed by special interests. im not a vapor i think its dumb AF.deathboy
    • but to the crux of the issue, no source. being shared as anti capitalism and anti GOP... what is the real motivation here?deathboy
    • doing your part to spread fake news that supports your self interests... you ever question why you post such things? if you arent just dancing for ent ofdeathboy
    • someone else. Do you strongly support the idea ecigs are a health hazard and should be banned and going back to smoking?deathboy
    • so strongly that all intention of economics or party had nothing to do with it and that was your intention? the russia social shit is still fascinatingdeathboy
    • https://www.cdc.gov/…
      warning was posted online a week ago.
      uan
    • Vape technology has been around for years, tobacco companies only put it out so it could survive a few more.PhanLo
    • Yeah, not sure wtf vaping has to do with 'Big Tobacco' or 'GOP' - it's big business now, but a massively fragmented industry with loads of independents.Nairn
    • The FDA restriction of flavourings will make it so only big business can compete in this space. Nobody else could afford the studies.monNom
    • Big tobacco owns most of the large Vape companies.utopian
    • Vitamin E acetate, which recently has been used as a thickener, particularly in BLACK MARKET vape cartridges seems to be the culprit—not 'Big Tobacco'.PonyBoy
    • He’s using a hose?
      That’s vape level 9000
      futurefood
    • @deathboy has ground his axe into a mace, and now he wants to beat you over the head with it.zarb0z
    • i think uan cdc article provides more insight than my adamantium +35 mace.deathboy
    • can sum it up as ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ stuff is still being figured outdeathboy
    • we have on correlation without any evidence or anything to back it up. havent even confirmed cases we are grouping togetherdeathboy
    • either cdc is stupid or they are writing PR releases with special interests in mind. ppl here actually read the report and think OMG its dangerous? the evidencedeathboy
    • is so strong! thank god they saved em and i can go back to cigarettes... sighdeathboy
    • Holy shit. You don’t need a link. Just read the news about it. And there is no study. What the FUCK are you talking about? It’s lung damage from vaping. Period.monospaced
    • My father was one of the doctors who diagnosed one of these cases where the kid is dying. Just two weeks ago in California.monospaced
    • I can’t believe you’d say the CDC is stupid. They employ people far smarter and educated and qualified than your stupid ass. Shut the fuck up.monospaced
    • wait mono you say you dont need a cdc report but beleive the cdc? cdc explicitly statesdeathboy
    • pulmonary illnesses possibly related to e-cigarette product use, or “vaping,” primarily among adolescents and young adults. Many states have alerted CDC to possdeathboy
    • to possible (not confirmed) cases and investigations into these cases are ongoing.deathboy
    • That is PR. Reports promotig fear involving something without evidence. It's special interests. Its tabloid.deathboy
    • Hell what exactly did your father diagnose for the kid? Lets start there first.you seem to know all these people with valuable info but not really doing muchdeathboy
    • for argument sake. dad is a west coast doc friend who studies "cowboys". knowing someone is pointless unless you can advance an arguemnt based on knowledge ofdeathboy
    • said experts and still will need scrutiny of data for facts. just how the real academic circles work.deathboy
    • my argument is that they aren't idiots, and there is confirmed lung damage from vapes, you fucking retardmonospaced
    • Yes, that is PR from the CDC. It's not a report you dumbass. I didn't say I don't need a repot, I'm saying there hasn't been a study. Fucking hell learn to readmonospaced
    • The reports are coming in, and the studies will begin. The CDC isn't in the business of making cases, just keeping people safe. There is no conspiracy.monospaced
    • And yes, my father is a prominent west coast physician of 50 years. Doctors practice medicine you idiot, they don't "study" anything. There is no motive.monospaced
    • haha mono the top gov agency for protection "reports" no evidence so far. PR or reports not a difference. You state your dad diagnosed an issue.deathboy
    • diagnosed a respiratory issue? As no study he couldnt relate it to anything. May make false causations since they dont "study" anything. Hey thanks for doingdeathboy
    • the work on how the ill informed parse info.deathboy
    • also find it funny you need to claim your dad as a prominent west coast physician.. what makes one prominent? is it prominent in the field of "study" respiradeathboy
    • tory illnesses... care tp define prominence in this context or just jsut saying shit in hopes no one will ask. tell tell signs of bullshit is indirectnessdeathboy
    • and you said studies will begin with no evidence stated by cdc... how have you already come to a conculsion lung damage by vape? trying to threads of reasonheredeathboy
    • my hypthesis is the capitalism base and my post. no reason at all just follow the signals you are sold. since never really shown any independent thoughtdeathboy
  • i_monk10

    • God Bless American Greed!utopian
    • Netflix: The bank that runs the world.slappy
    • The folk who take this at face value are a little bit stupid.Morning_star
    • wasn't this stated decades ago? I remember reading someone sitting in a major meeting when they dictated it was more profitable to keep people sick...mugwart
    • Indeed. The logic is that if a Pharma company create a cure that eradicates a disease completely in a couple of years their market suddenly disappears. It's....Morning_star
    • ...not a sustainable business model.Morning_star
    • so it's not a sustainable business model, it's still a business if you can recoup costs, cure everyone and close up shop with a tidy profit.shapesalad
    • ^ and there is the problem - cost to develop a cure far exceeds the revenue it'd generate.shapesalad
    • ^ but in any case, humans are surviving and reproducing too much for it to be sustainable on planet earth. Perhaps let nature, as cruel as it is, cull the weak?shapesalad
    • That's horribly naive and kinda stupid to say. Just because someone was born w some problem doesn't mean they won't bring world peace or be the next Picaso.formed
  • Morning_star3

    What puzzles and amuses me about this thread is the constant bleating-on of the left leaning QBN brethren who, for some inexplicable reason, lay ALL the ills of the modern world at the feet of one political and economic system.
    The amount of virtue signalling, posturing, oh-so-trendy horse shit that is posted here with claims that - even with the most charitable and simplistic interpretation - blame a system that can't possibly be responsible.
    The imperfections in the capitalist system, as well as the communist system are the humans - the fucking stupid, selfish, greedy, fucked-up, idiot, power hungry humans.
    Polarising the argument is retarded and self defeating because in 3 years, 5 years, 10 years there will be trend loving, virtue signalling, shallow humans arguing the exact opposite.
    The ridiculous thing is, is that capitalist/communist systems are not incompatible and a society that identifies the good things about each and nurtures them within its political and economic systems tend to blossom and bloom.

    • so says a commie rag ;)hans_glib
    • morning star of reason...renderedred
    • All marketing. It's easy to yell "socialist!", "communist!" than it is to explain that that same person that eats that up benefits from those programs.formed
    • I think when people attack capitalism they are just signaling their unhappiness with the way things work currently. I agree it's silly for them to pretend theyyuekit
    • all have the answers about what the best alternative is.yuekit
    • Craven capitalism benefits the few, hurts the majority. It's really that simple. Leftists aren't pining for a Neo-USSR.garbage
    • But the second bullshit is called on snowflake centrist argument, the conversation devolves into "virtue signaling", "posturing", or "SJW".garbage
    • Are you really confused as to the extent of capitalism's influence over the modern world? What else would you blame systemic problems on, if not the systemi_monk
    • that reaches into nearly every aspect of modern life, defines its values, directs its politics, and indoctrinates generations to prop it up for the benefit ofi_monk
    • a diminishing handful at the top?i_monk
    • A socialist country collapses (after decades of interference, embargoes, assassinations, etc) and it's somehow proof that socialism is poison to all it touches.i_monk
    • But I guess millions are plunged into generational debt because they're lazy, not because capitalism makes it profitable for someone to do that to them.i_monk
    • "It's not the system! Capitalism is perfect! It's the humans who are the problem!"i_monk
    • No; capitalism actively incentivizes the sort of sociopathic shit that's ruining the world in the name of short-lived profit, then tells its victims theiri_monk
    • poverty is a symptom of their own moral failings and character flaws.i_monk
    • Yeah of course the system matters, precisely because people are flawed. Most people will just mindlessly go along with whatever system they are born into.yuekit
    • However I agree with morning_star that a black and white capitalism vs. socialism divide is not necessarily the best way to think about it.yuekit
    • @yuekit And that's kind of an obvious point. Morning_star subscribes to the ideas of the IDW and the Sam Harris types. It's safe to say he's a dimbulb.garbage
    • @Garbage It would also be safe to say that your simplification of the 'Capitalist' problem is similarly dim. Props to you my dimbulb brother.Morning_star
    • @i_monk Life is not fair and neither should it be. Capitalism cannot be sociopathic, people are sociopathic. As i said, the problem is the humans.Morning_star
    • You're saying that our current incarnation of capitalism doesn't sow a greedy breeding ground for thieves that can buy their way out of punishment?garbage
    • Corporations have personhood and are more powerful than nations. The people take a back seat to the bottom line.garbage
    • If you can't understand that in such utterly simple terms, your bulb might be dimmer than mine.garbage
    • "Life is not fair and neither should it be" sums up the sociopathy capitalism thrives on.i_monk
    • communism ruined my country so I always find hilarious people from capitalist countries longing for communismernexbcn
    • @i_monk. Do you think that Malaria, Volcanos, Tsunami, Multiple Sclerosis, Motor Neurone Disease etc is caused by capitalism? Do you think that communism ....Morning_star
    • ...brings utopia? Even though not one single successful example can be given. The political and economic polarity you seem to yearn is myth.Morning_star
    • Nobody is begging for communism, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at.garbage
    • What do you want? What replaces a free market economy? Sure, more social responsibility from huge corporations is needed. And here in the UK we have ..Morning_star
    • ..the monopoly commission and the financial services authority and all manner of regulatory bodies BUT business rise nd fall on their bottom line. What are...Morning_star
    • ...you suggesting is the optimum solution?Morning_star
    • a rebootprophetone
    • A redistribution of wealth? Globally? Regionally? Who decides who gets what?Morning_star
    • You already pointed out that there are many different possible combinations of socialism and free market. It's not really such a mystery, most people on theyuekit
    • left just want to shift the balance towards greater social welfare and more empowerment of workers.yuekit
    • Left-wingers are hardly the only ones saying the current system isn't working. Look at how quickly conservatives in the U.S. lined up behind Trump and hisyuekit
    • skepticism of free trade. Or what's going on in your own country with Brexit.yuekit
    • I think the disillusionment in the UK is more to do with the incompetence of all politicians regardless of their affiliation. And I agree with you that there ..Morning_star
    • ...is room for criticism everywhere. My point is, is that this thread is reflective of the current on-trend political position that is essentially useless and..Morning_star
    • ...decisive. The only real workable solution is, as I’ve said, a mixture of both left and right ideals.Morning_star
    • i love the 'it's not the system, its the people' arguments from the right. like their belief in capitalism and distrust of others aren't one and the same.kingsteven
    • i'm yet to identify one socialist on this site. at least 4 dumb as fuck extreme right anti-communists that get triggered at the thought of any social reform.kingsteven
    • I indentify as a communist.deadsperm
    • I don't see what's wrong with pointing out the excesses and absurdities of the current system. That's all most of the posts in this thread are doing.yuekit
    • And who decided that this was a choice between only late-stage capitalism or communism?MrT
    • cold-war era anti-communist propaganda equates freedom to laissez-faire capitalism and connects the dots with psychological egoism.kingsteven
    • "Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." - friedman.kingsteven
    • ardent believers of capitalist doctrine are anti-communists... they see it as incompatible with their psyche.kingsteven
    • that seems to be where the polarisation stems. marx knew capitalism contained the seeds for its own destruction but marxists are socially motivated so prop upkingsteven
    • the system with social reform rather than let it fail.kingsteven
    • not even the Germans could implement communism, they had to build a wall to prevent people from escaping their socialist paradiseernexbcn
    • 3 things ernexbcn, 1. polarisation of capitalism and communism is daft (see OP and all above), 2 that's a bit xenophobic, 3. they fucking started it :Dkingsteven
    • Did I say something to imply I think volcanoes are caused by capitalism? What a stupid question, part of a transparently stupid straw man construct.i_monk
    • No you didn't. You did, however, imply that my observation regarding life's unfairness was a symptom of the lies and selfishness of a capitalist system. I was..Morning_star
    • ...merely giving examples of things that make life very unfair that can't possibly be linked to the capitalist system. Your argument is flawed.Morning_star
    • Your reading is flawed. A system that doesn't account for human nature or the 'life *should* be unfair" mentality is a flawed system. Capitalism goes beyondi_monk
    • that, however, to disproportionately reward exploitation and unfairness and enshrine them as core principles.i_monk
    • I wouldn't go as far as 'core principles' but i catch your drift. My question (which was asked very clumsily) is why should the economic and politicai system...Morning_star
    • ...be fair? I agree it shouldn't be exploitative or oppressive etc by why fair?Morning_star
  • deadsperm10

    • LOL. Must be true, Canadians also live longer. Although I'd like to test living in the south of France for a while, for science.zarkonite
    • Adolescent communist twit. Euros have been more physically active and ate better. The solution is not to get obese & ill and throw money at trying to reverse itBustySaintClaire
    • The Mediterranean diet & lifestyle is not 'bullshit.' The Arkansas diet is.BustySaintClaire
    • to be honest here, people from the US really eat like they have free healthcareernexbcn
    • If we here in Denmark didn't have free healthcare we/I would be completely broke, as my other half has been in and out of hospitals the past couple of years.Nutter
  • docpoz3

    Capitalism has its merits and historical success. The same can be said for socialism. I understand binary fanaticism as a rallying cry but I feel, like most things in life, striking a sensible balance between the two ideologies seems to be the way to go.

    New York has many social welfare and housing programs that tremendously help it's citizens. Without them the city would be a war zone.

    Strike a balance that works. Obama was a spark but what the usa needs is to socialize college education (not only to prepare for the job market but for quality of community) and revisit our health care situation. Many hospitals in the usa are a disaster and need funding. I will always recommend a private hospital like Baptist over the Jackson health system in South Florida.

    Capitalism has become as top-heavy as the Golden State Warriors. If the people truly want to change the status quo, it's time to look at what Canada is doing an maybe borrow some ideas. Copying features worked for the Samsung Galaxy and Microsoft Windows and it needs to be applied to government in an evolutionary and competitive manner.

    • socialism is only as good as it's people. and canadians are better people.hotroddy
    • USA is more like venezuela, where people are low skilled, and are quite happy to take a piece of the pie without contributing to systemhotroddy
    • Canada, like all northern socialist countries are hard working people. USA has one foot in the tropics.hotroddy
    • But don't worry.. one day we'll get tropical socialism. It's right around the corner once millennials start voting.hotroddy
    • socialize edu happened as soon as gov guaranteed loans. banks sold u college as something special after that. Stupid if u fall for it.deathboy
    • college has nothing on a almost no pay internship. period. kids get 80k in debt to be an intern. ridiculous.deathboy
    • as far as socialism merits im curious? where are those to be seen? u see a small solution to a symptom w/ subsidization and say yaydeathboy
    • but what really inflates cost of housing? to understand this is an entirely different beast.Monetary policy is a big player. Which is not free marketdeathboy
    • But that goes back years with central banks, and who knows if we didnt control it and get a reserve currency we might be entirely in a different positiondeathboy
    • we probably didnt play fair but the us came out the winner. however that might finally be changing with globalism.deathboy
    • canada isn't socialistGnash
    • medicare is loved by everyone, and yet people, conveniently, dismiss it and don't see what it is (look at people "scared of socialism" collecting benefits fromformed
    • the govt when it benefits them). Good post, it's what we should be discussing, but fear mongering 'govt is evil' has brain washed too many, I fear.formed
    • You can make a good argument that capitalism does not work without some degree of socialism, and vice versa.yuekit
    • Northern countries practise 'social democracy', not 'socialism'. There's a world of difference, and capitalism plays a key role in a social democracy.Continuity
    • The sooner you Americns can finally learn the distinction, the better off you will be.Continuity
    • "It's right around the corner once millennials start voting."
      you know the age range for millennials? or are you implying they just don't bother to vote?
      pango
    • haha yeah millennials are already the largest voting demographic. I think when people say millennial they think of a 12 year old sitting in parents basement.yuekit
    • +1 to Gnash: 'canada isn't socialist' but you'd be forgiven for thinking it is since our politicians seem to think it is toospot13
    • seems to me you have street-up revolutionary socialism which is hindered by the fact that revolutionaries turn out to be bad politicians / dictatorsFax_Benson
    • or top-down theoretical socialism, which is usually done 'to' the proles by entitled upper-middle class twits who chose 'left' at college and want ordinaryFax_Benson
    • Mixed economies work best and are most stable. Here in Canada, we're mainly capitalist, but all health care & most education is public. Great justice system.BustySaintClaire
    • ..folk to be grateful to them for doing so. Hence the working class tend not vote for them, even when 'capitalism' is letting them down.Fax_Benson
    • Socialism is a pretty nebulous term, it can mean anything from a hippy commune to a Stalinist dictatorship.yuekit
    • yeah, career leftists need drop itFax_Benson
    • Some republicans use to and maybe still refer to us as Soviet Canuckistan lol_niko
  • colin_s1

    i cannot understand in this day and age how money and capitalism are lauded, or even defended.

    yes it is true no -ism, structure or system of government has ever succeeded past a certain epoch - yet to blame the system itself is to blame the tool and not the carpenter.

    to give a single human, or perhaps a small cabal of them, grotesque power over the fates of all others, will introduce god knows what kind of psychological complexes and ideas of self-validation ... that revolting ayn rand piece is a great example of how rich white men pat themselves on the back for their (often un-earned) wealth, because it distances money from negative action or consequence yet still esteems it as a "moral center."

    socialism is not the answer, but it is a step in the right direction - capitalism is a system that promotes greed, corruption, envy... it is inherently divisive for the sake of markets instead of supportive of humanism for the sake of society. it is inherently corrupt and deceitful. there is nothing dignified or honorable about capitalism or those who would support it as a proper ideology.

    yes power does corrupt and at the upper tiers of all systems there exists a leader gone mad. that is the failure of humans to design and maintain systems of government that can keep pace with the size of empire, and our lack of ability to create and keep in check forms of government from local to international.

    the point is that these things take time, and to abandon that effort is the ultimate form of selfish denial; a "take the money and run" mentality that has already lead america to a place of national misery (regardless of political ideology), and the world to the brink of collapse, while the elites will continue to hoard wealth because their capitalist fantasies DO work - just only for them - and the rest obviously are the ones at fault.

    • "has lead america to a place of national misery" and "the world to the brink of collapse" LOLOL OKnb
    • more people are being pulled out of poverty than ever before. So what do you suggest? Until something takes it's place it will continue to evolve like natureIanbolton
    • lots of people at the bottom have more faith in capitalism than socialism to get them out of poverty- it works for a lot of people, not all of whom are the 1%Fax_Benson
    • I highly recommend you to read the book: Sapiens - the history of humankind. It will give you a glimpse how we got to this point.zaq
    • and lots of people see socialism as something that is done to the working class, rather than for them - or more importanly, by them.Fax_Benson
    • people need education and work, I don't care how you call the system but to be sustainable it must be productive, if not just look at Venezuelaernexbcn
    • they managed to ruin a country in just 20 years, money doesn't come from the trees, an economy needs to be productive in order to sustain itself and a societyernexbcn
    • if you could pick and choose policies, it would sell, but it always seems to come with ideological rules and caveats and crazy people attached.Fax_Benson
    • working class people don't vote for it, which is a bit of a hindrance.Fax_Benson
    • elites hoard wealth in any political system. More so in socialist and authoritarian systems where their creed is "Socialism for you and capitalism for me"hotroddy
    • Every man woman and child not only yearns for money and things. But more of them. Always.robthelad
    • What I don't get is why the dialogue always attacks the extremes, a mix of both ideologies is an option.T-Dawg
    • A regulated market, with support for the proletariat.T-Dawg
    • That's prettymuch what progressivism is.T-Dawg
    • Yet the media portrays it as "socialism", and basically straw-man attacks the ideology.T-Dawg
    • At the same, I find crony capitalism is often mistaken for the same thing as ideological capitalism.T-Dawg
    • And maybe some of the issues that we have with the current state of "capitalism" would be improved if we addressed the cronyism.T-Dawg
    • socialism is only as good as the people. so inevitably spectrum of how effective social policies can be.hotroddy
    • if your citizens are shitty unproductive, unskilled people who feel the gov't owes them something than you'll have shitty socialism.hotroddy
    • if society puts pressure on you to work and be productive and social policies are in place as a 'safety net' than social expenditures won't bankrupt the nationhotroddy
    • and your country be occupied by complacent, unskilled, uncompetitive and lazy people. You don't have to look very hard to find CONCRETE case studies.hotroddy
    • I think it's a mistake to write people off as lazy. There are lots of issues that keep people in states of unemployment. Hopelessness, lack of education, etc.T-Dawg
    • I think it's more the fault of the environment than the fault of the individual. The argument is basically nurture vs. tough love.T-Dawg
    • if by 'environment' you mean cold northern countries than I agree. The more tropical the climate the lazier the people.hotroddy
    • but even then.. west germany had a hard time assimilating eastern germans into society as they were accustomed to 3 hour work days.hotroddy
    • but it i think you are talking about individuals and I'm talking about populations.hotroddy
    • There was a great comment on here a while back that said essentially, none of these terms...capitalism, socialism, etc...yuekit
    • describe what goes on in the real world in any objective way. I don't find them all that helpful to have a debate over.yuekit
    • I think when people these days complain about "capitalism", they are mostly critiquing the current economic system and saying something needs to change.yuekit
    • Which is a totally fair point...the current system is obviously unsustainable. Look at the stats I posted above about the average people has just a few thousandyuekit
    • dollars in net worth while a tiny number of people have more money than god. Meanwhile the government in the U.S. is over $20 trillion in debt which individualyuekit
    • citizens are ultimately going to pay the cost of. Things may be buzzing along mostly OK on the surface, but that's a level of instability that is arguably justyuekit
    • as bad as governments and systems that ultimately collapsed such as the Soviet Union.yuekit
    • capitalism is a system that promotes greed, corruption, envy... haha ignore the nature of man and inherent instincts. a reason church coined original sin asdeathboy
    • a control mechanism and pushed guilt. think you may have fallen pray to the trap. ukit you are right. but realizing functioning foundations and weaknesses isdeathboy
    • super important. the "isms" are generalizations, but there are foundations to the logic. and humans like to use language to distort reality of things or changedeathboy
    • certain truths. its always important to look at the fundemental structures and not ignore them over biased details. it is an absolute if freedom is to be retaindeathboy
    • ed it needs to be in capitalistic leaning society. in collectivist societies the individual is not important. ignoring the nature that every individual findsdeathboy
    • themselves very important. basic foundation blocksdeathboy
    • and as far as the ayn rand piece goes. its solid rationally. you still miss the point of what money is. you assing to many fake values to itdeathboy
    • you ignore the words. that money is mean of transferring value in a system, and how it supports individualistic rightsdeathboy
    • a great exercise for you is to write a post explaining where it fails in reasoning and why.deathboy
    • like in your statement it distance money from negative action or consequences. How so? Money after all is an object with no will but the possessordeathboy
    • but your statement seems to assert it has some power in action and desire to avoid consequences, which sounds liek human interestsdeathboy
    • being projected onto money. work it out. throw out your reasoning. dont do the emotional i dont accept thing and shut it downdeathboy
    • capitalism is like watching a nat geo show about seeing cute creatures ripped to shreds. the alternative is watching animals in a zoo cages. seeing the confusiodeathboy
    • n in the animals base instincts and how they deal with the day to day shit. i always find the latter more so much more cruel nend inhumaedeathboy
    • The idea that you can construct a society based on some ivory tower philosophic principle seems very misguided to me.yuekit
    • Reminds me of 20th century communists who tried to faithfully implement Marx’s ideas while ignoring real world consequences.yuekit
    • exactly yuekit. its principles and foundations. every collectivist throughout history has subjugated invidiualism for the greater gooddeathboy
    • if you are familiar with ant colonies you know how socialism works. the majority works for the top percent. kingdoms, even in modern culture slavery is thingdeathboy
    • all promoting the same foundations. i simply acknowledge an ideal, never to be practiced 100% because of life, becase promoting the other isdeathboy
    • criminal to me. That i may choose who are worthy of slaves, who can rise and be cannon fodder. Mqaybe im pussy but id much rather let natural selection decidedeathboy
    • and i trust it more than my own biasdeathboy
    • You don't think under capitalism the majority work for the top 1%? lol cmon...this is rather naive isn't it?yuekit
    • What system do you imagine not having a top class people work for ukit? but i agree it is naive thinkingdeathboy
    • there is a big difference between organic grouping and forcing behaviors. a big part is freedom to choose and to decide individualisticallydeathboy
    • not all decisions will work, but millions vs singles are better able to find results that resonate.deathboy
    • technically back in the day i'd agree that how people follow corporations or businesses that prop up individuals are solid market mechanismsdeathboy
    • i think i understand where you may be coming from even if incorrect in the upper class. that is a charade these days. a gut feelingdeathboy
    • and i agree it is. but again not an issue of capitalism.this wealth gap has almost 0 to do with capitalism besides people acting in self interests,deathboy
    • its a rigged game fucking people and incentivzing those fucked to fuck themselves for the interests of their influencersdeathboy
    • a sad cycle of history.the dumb and idiotic pawns are a majority. all about how using them which resonates with so many wannabe politiciansdeathboy
    • which is why im all about decentralizing education and would love to remove dept of edu. edu is a foundation and current foundation is junkdeathboy
    • open it up let markets and people decide what works and go from there.. yes scary letting things develop... maybe free edu poipularitydeathboy
    • results in nationalism or some sort of religion. i dont know, no one does, but i just trust in life to find the best way. It always hasdeathboy
    • or what like to say it is what it is because it cannot be anything but what it is in terms of naturedeathboy
    • Exactly 1 dozen consecutive notes. Achievement unlocked.monospaced
    • and exactly capt wow counter. did you count the words and figure out if they were quite efficient for the message? or a avg that would be?deathboy
    • nothing you write is efficient, or a good use of language, but you seem proud of thatmonospaced
    • and that is you just dodging the question. I get it. Lots of words talking about stuff might make those with little feel smaller. So best to try to make itdeathboy
    • into an insult and hope you can bring it down to your level of little quips shared from twitter. But I dont think you see it that way. I think you actuallydeathboy
    • believe you make sound and reasonable arguments. or that you are contributing. that its the only discourse you know, which is another thing postman feareddeathboy
    • tl;drcannonball1978
    • dodging a question? No I'm not! No question was posed of me, dumbfuck. I'm just laughing at how many comments you write.monospaced
    • if you think I posed any argument here, then you are one confused little bitchmonospaced
    • I KNOW I make reasonable arguments, when I choose to. That can't be said of you, though. Just lots of words. Lots and lots of words.monospaced
    • did you count the words and figure out if they were quite efficient for the message? or a avg that would be?deathboy
    • you are so focused on word counts and not substance I'd like to know what word count works for you?deathboy
    • could you say it in less words? If you know better why not help out? Say what I'm trying to say in a more cohesive shortened statement.deathboy
  • utopian3

    Boeing got a record tax break from Washington state and cut jobs anyway.

    A few years ago, Washington state awarded the Boeing Co. the largest corporate tax break any state had given any corporation — a massive $8.7-billion handout aimed at encouraging the aerospace industry generally, and Boeing specifically, "to maintain and grow its workforce within the state."

    Unwisely, state legislators and Democratic Gov. Jay Inslee didn't make that a hard and fast requirement of the handout. So they've had to stand by powerlessly as the company has cut 12,655 jobs, or more than 15% of its Washington workforce, since that heady signing ceremony in November 2013. Layoff notices have gone out to 429 more employees in just the last few weeks.

    https://www.latimes.com/business…

    • It's called Corporatism. Look it up!utopian
    • It's not corporate greed, it's political incompetence.Morning_star
    • Dems blew it here.PonyBoy
    • who got the bonuses?renderedred
    • It's not "dems", for fuck's sake, this is bought and paid for corporate power. It's everywhere.formed
    • This is what corporations do - make more profits and cut expenses.formed
    • political incompetence caused by corporate lobbying.uan
    • lol—first off—I was being sarcastic. Second... if this was a Repubby run state you clowns would be all over the 'fucking republican' remarks and not...PonyBoy
    • ... generalizing this as 'political incompetence' or 'paid for corpo power'. You'd be shitting on republicans along w/some #pubsgreed type accoutrements.PonyBoy
    • This is proof that both sides are just as incompetent.PonyBoy
    • Both are incompetent, one just happens to give handouts only to corporations and the wealthiest.formed
    • Did those jobs go somewhere else? How do you just cut 12,000 jobs?freedom
    • "retardation for the nayshun"fadein11
    • little to do with capitalism and more politicsdeathboy
    • "[...] and that's what *we're* battling [...]"mekk
  • colin_s0

    https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-b…

    A Pennsylvania school district that recently came under fire after threatening parents that their kids could be recommended to be put in foster care if they didn’t pay off their school lunch debts has turned down an offer from a local businessman to clear the debts, The Philadelphia Inquirer reports.

    According to the local paper, the Wyoming Valley West school board rejected an offer from Todd Carmichael, the CEO of La Colombe Coffee Roasters headquartered in Philadelphia, to pay off over $22,000 worth of debt for local students.

    In an op-ed Carmichael wrote that was published in the Wilkes-Barre Citizens’ Voice on Tuesday, the businessman said that he had worked with his team to “reach out to the school district to let them know we were eager to donate the full amount outstanding, reported as $22,467.”

    “On Monday, we talked to School Board President Joseph Mazur to determine the best way to transfer the funds in order to wipe the slate clean and restore dignity to the 1,000 families who received these threatening letters,” he continued.

    “Shockingly, Mr. Mazur turned us down. I can’t explain or justify his actions. Let me be clear: we offered over $22,000 with no strings attached. And he said ‘No,’” Carmichael went on to write.

    • what an assBeeswax
    • https://www.npr.org/…Beeswax
    • they will accept the donations nowBeeswax
    • there is so much idiocy in this article, beginning with the fact children in the public education system are charged to eat.colin_s
    • just wow! someone doing well generously offers to help and the district turned it down until it went public. that district has to be corrupt.capn_ron
    • I anyone else horrified that people who can't afford food are being shaken down? Why doesn't the district feed those kids?! wtf.zarkonite
    • Idiot nation. It really is short term thinking.PhanLo
    • I used to not like La Colombe. Then I started drinking them. Now I love themcannonball1978
    • haha. regain dignity to deadbeats not paying for services. nice to see focus on issue without looking for a PR stunt handout. Stunt clearly doesn't fix the issudeathboy
    • colin why do you think someone should get free lunch? think that is what is of importancedeathboy
    • free lunch is great. free homes great, free shit period is great. but where does free shit come from and where do the costs go we ignore.deathboy
    • poor people have more hope and less defense. they are the perfect prey.imbecile
    • @deathboy making sure kids are fed is a basic thing we should do for each other. We'd have to be all kinds of losers to admit we can't afford caring for kids.zarkonite
    • Free school lunch, paid out from the regional tax = all children are on an even footing, and poorer families are supported. Or should just keep the poor poor?shapesalad
    • Hope when you are all 50 years old and can’t get a job because no one hires a designer aged 50, that you can still pay for your kids school meals.shapesalad
    • zarkonite free food for all kids defined by what age and paid by whom?deathboy
    • if that is the goal say the cost and who pays. and be specificdeathboy
    • curious if someone without a child should pay? no one pays for my hobbies that give me the good feelies, yet i pay for othersdeathboy
    • is that fair? but that breaking down who actually will pay an costsdeathboy
    • Everyone gets a lunch. Easy. And please note I never used the word free, I grew up in a retarded socialist regime and I know better than to use that word whenzarkonite
    • discussing handouts.zarkonite
    • well than you should be very considerate of the cost zarkon knowing its not free. The end is easy, the payment not so much as you should know from such regimesdeathboy
    • so how do you control price of lunches coming from the regime? who are do you nominate to sacrifice?deathboy
    • There's already plenty of knowledge out there on how to feed people. This is the silly part, you already paid to know how to do this. But now you have shittyzarkonite
    • administrators on the ground that can't figure out how to execute. Learning is an investment, and it will have a positive ROI in the long term. Especially for azarkonite
    • place like West Virginia who was built with resource extraction, it'd be good for them (IMHO) to get some education to get out of their funk.zarkonite
    • and I'm assuming you agree that hungry kids won't be able to sit in class and learn?zarkonite
    • I have to ask, your federal government has a budget of 4.4trillion. When you say who's going to pay, do you mean to say you think ALL that money is well spentzarkonite
    • and can't be redirected to things like this?zarkonite
    • jesus christ, deathboy, the answers to all your questions are publicly available because they're all actively in play in US schools nationwide right nowmonospaced
    • The idea of free lunches for low income students has been around for my entire life and yours. It's not a new proposal without planning, etc. Fuckin' hell.monospaced
    • You clearly didn't go to any higher education. Based on your absolute ignorance on this, it seems like maybe you were homeschooled too?monospaced
    • @mono I wonder if he understands how insurance works, or how expensive road infrastructures are. He doesn't like paying for others as if no one paid for him...zarkonite
    • "theres plenty of knowledge on how to feed people" .. yea i wont invest on that response. nor on your calling out poor administration of fundsdeathboy
    • what you describe is a turd that only drains more funds from private individuals with little interest. simply wrongdeathboy
    • i pay my road fund in gas tax by the way. NV is one of the states with the better road programs. but still EVs dont pay. probably need to rewrite rulesdeathboy
    • that tax directly to usage. funny always the under handed trying to debase me on "paid for education" Whos the sucker there?deathboy
    • And as a kid who worked with his mom in the cafeteria I know plenty about "reduced" lunches and late payments. I know first hand about deadbeat parentsdeathboy
    • and my mom breaking rules to feed the kids. Giving extra and what not. A payout for PR only teaches parents to be more irresponsibledeathboy
    • Or maybe that is what you are hoping for your kid mono. Be dead beat and hope people pick up slack. Your views reflect how you raise.deathboy
    • you seem to have such little life experiencedeathboy
    • and yet, I have more life experience than you ... are you married with children?monospaced
    • also, your mom was a lunch lady? and you advocate AGAINST minimum wage increases? hearltess bastard!monospaced
    • The fact your mom had to break rules to feed hungry, needing children, just points to the fact the rules need to change, ffs. You're so ass backward here, dude.monospaced
    • i advocate against it yes. its takes real knowledge and not chasing greed or self interest. which is the point you miss.deathboy
    • knowledge that minimum wage hurts more than it helps. its a purely stupid arbitrary rule through gov. do you think a fed mandated minimum wage works for a smalldeathboy
    • midwestern town as it does in a larger city? to think economies are not living breathing unique things evolved from environments.deathboy
    • as far as kindness of my mom. just shows human element that doesnt need rules. you build rules you deteriorate that element. charity becomes resentment.deathboy
    • Also her working at school low wage was what she wanted. she valued her children. plus it also saved on food cost with us helping out serving.deathboy
    • she would think it an insult to look down on the wages for the work. that shit would be petty and superficial. another thing you should learn isdeathboy
    • a lot of people make the money they make and if low have no issue. And quite sick of people who have never walked a day in their shoes trying to use them for pedeathboy
    • rsonal agendas. so lil experience outside your bubble man.deathboy
    • and that is why you will never reproduce ... it's funny how things just work outmonospaced
    • @deathboy, why are you so quick to label people ‘deadbeats’? Do you know them all? What do churches do w/ all the money they collect? Should they just keep it?scruffics
    • sometimes labels are a must in discussion. I'm totally fine with spending on "deadbeats" out of charity. Big difference from public spending.deathboy
    • I actually think churches and small organizations are better capable to sort out "deadbeats" than any public mandatory system with no discretion or value of juddeathboy
    • gementdeathboy
    • see the thing is I KNOW i can't correctly evaluate everyone and judge wether they're a deadbeat or money is being wasted and better used on others.deathboy
    • i just support structures that enable charity to be dispersed the most effectivelydeathboy
    • And you are ok with churches paying no taxes?scruffics
    • no im not really, but most culturally still beleive in the god shit and altruism. other take advantage of it. a bit fo double edge sword between idiots and gamedeathboy
    • rs of the system. And i think the non-profit intentions have and only are gamed these days by corporations. The idea that was there is no longer validdeathboy
    • however if you equalize the tax you might see people communicating a little more honestly with intention of efforts.deathboy
  • yuekit3

    Opioid maker used rap video to push powerful painkiller

    Employees at a drug company accused of bribing doctors rapped and danced around a person dressed as a bottle of the highly addictive fentanyl spray in a video meant to motivate sales reps to push the drug.

    https://apnews.com/2a40fb45332e4…

    • and?PonyBoy
    • Sales reps are going to push the fucking drug regardless of some stupid internal motivational promo (It's their job)... I'll ask again... and?PonyBoy
    • You're right...nothing to see here.
      Just a totally normal healthy society ;)
      yuekit
    • Companies do this internal motivational (whatever you want to call it) all the time to stir up their employees... doesn't have much to do w/bribing etc.PonyBoy
    • "They’re charged with scheming to pay doctors bribes and kickbacks in exchange for prescriptions of the opioid meant for cancer patients with severe pain."...PonyBoy
    • ... that's your story... not some stupid internal rap motivational stuff... I really don't understand why they'd report on that aspect... very weird.PonyBoy
    • Did you know that more Americans are now dying from overdoses (mostly opiods) each year than died in the entire Vietnam war? Amazing...yuekit
    • What does that have to do w/using a 'rap' to motivate a sales team? Again... the story is 'scheming to pay doctors bribes and kickbacks'...PonyBoy
    • ... every 'large' company does these silly internal sales rallies... I still am lost as to why that's a story.PonyBoy
    • Maybe you wouldn't expect a shitty rap promo video for a serious drug that is easy to overdose and die from...?yuekit
    • To motivate an internal sales team? I've been dragged to titty bars w/cocaine, heroin and every other fuck vice you can toss at some 20-something...PonyBoy
    • ... money-grubbing sales staff (male and female). It's actually shit like that that made me go back to school for graphic crap in my mid 20's. :)PonyBoy
    • Again... this is 'business as usual' to motivate any sales team, dude. The story should be focused on the bribes and kickbacks... not what...PonyBoy
    • ... is used to to motivate the fucking sales team. The AP blew it here. There is no shock if you've spent anytime in the 'real world' I guess.PonyBoy
    • and here i thought i had issues... O,,oimbecile
    • this is 'business as usual'
      And you think it's normal and good for the business of health care to be run like a used car dealership? lol
      yuekit
    • I didn't say I thought it was 'good'... I even said I bailed on this world back in the day as I alluded to it being gross. But if you're 'shocked' by this...PonyBoy
    • ... and by 'this' I mean Sales Motivational Techniques like some dumb rap... then you're easily shocked.PonyBoy
    • A rap used in a corporation to motivate a sales team is definitely 'business as usual'... bribes and kickbacks are not. Focus on that.PonyBoy
    • lol imbecilefuturefood
    • would have gotten so much outrage and backlash in canada.pango
    • the movie Office Space is pretty real to life (that's why it's funny) dorky shit from awkward forced birthday parties to shitty internal motivational rallies.PonyBoy
    • getting upset over a corpo product (whatever it is) characterized in a tacky fashion and put to a rap is a bit silly.PonyBoy
    • Go Patriots!utopian
    • Did this tacky motivational rap cause bribes and kickbacks?PonyBoy
    • kill it with fireMilan
    • Questionable direction. Makes you wonder if this was their poor attempt trying to appeal to kids.pango
    • it's a video meant to motivate sales reps, pango... hasn't a thing to do w/nor would ever be seen by kidsPonyBoy
    • why you defending this so much?inteliboy
    • why are they marketing it to sales rep like they market it kids? are their sales rep kids? is this why pharma industry is kind of fucked up because sales repspango
    • are kids? really confused is all.pango
    • Yeah this is a weird hill to die on. Maybe PonyBoy’s whole business is creating corporate motivational rap videosyuekit
    • You make it sound like I approve of this. All I have said is how confusing it is that this is even a story given it has nothing to do with bribes and kickbacks.PonyBoy
    • Anybody who has worked for a large corporation has had to sit through stupid internal sales bullshit like this... It is nothing new. It is almost always tacky.PonyBoy
    • again... Is this stupid Internal sales rap the cause of a bunch of bribes and kickbacks?PonyBoy
    • Take away this serious crimes of these bribes and kickbacks and you are left with a tacky internal sales presentation as your story... Which is a non-story.PonyBoy
    • If you guys can’t tell the difference between an internal sales tool (a tacky one at that) and an actual advertisement then I don’t know why I am typing this :)PonyBoy
    • Intelli... haven’t defended a thing. I’m pointing out that this article is going after the wrong story... That is all. Focus on the bribes and kickbacks...PonyBoy
    • ... Not on some stupid internal sales presentation that never sees the light of day until the AP gets their hand on it to try and shock us.PonyBoy
    • The sales reps sold to doctors and other Legal pharmaceutical distribution. This was never marketing for the public.PonyBoy
    • You should be shocked that doctors excepted bribes and kickbacks... Not that some stupid rap video was used in an internal sales presentation.PonyBoy
    • *accepted ( sorry, I am talking into my phone As typing with my thumbs gets tedious)PonyBoy
    • Ya I'm only talking about the rap.
      Does that shit actually work as a sales tool? LOL
      pango
    • pango... Think Steve Ballmer... "Developers! Developers! Developers!" That shit works for the right people. Corpo Sales teams are basically greedy men/women...PonyBoy
    • ...right off the street. No experience whatsoever. They're easily influenced people usually w/only dollar signs in their eyes—yes, shit like that rap works. :-/PonyBoy
    • No wonder the industry is wack...pango
    • yeah fuck it, ponyboy you're a worthless piece of shit. go fuck yourself.imbecile
    • I love you, imbby... <3
      *pinches your cute lil chubby cheeks... SO CUTE!
      PonyBoy
  • i_monk6

    • Kinda crazy and sad that wall street is hitting record numbers, but we can't pay for public schools. It says a lot.twooh
    • look locally at Baltimore's bureaucracy if you want a clue who's to blame (meaning: can't manage money for shit) and stop comparing it to the Dow ffsPonyBoy
    • To not take note of the record profits would be ignorant. Where do you think money to pay for things comes from? It is horribly sad.formed
    • Worse is how many lap up the 'cut everything!' selfishness. Sure, inefficiencies suck, but just robbing the future will kill America.formed
    • 40+ years of austerity can't be to blame, it must be mismanagement and liberal spending! More cuts will cure it!i_monk
    • sure sure... never blame the local bureaucracy for terrible decisions, consistent poor spending and pitiful leadershipPonyBoy
    • Because the Dow has everything to do w/how Baltimore taxes and spends those taxes... right? This is whiny emotional post, Dave.PonyBoy
    • Get out your butterfly net and go hunt down some efficiency fairies.i_monk
    • How do I go about gathering silly unbalanced comparisons of local shitshow bureaucracies vs. good stock market news? Is there a net for that?PonyBoy
    • I agree with PonyBoy. Every time the President references the stock market as if that were related to his policies, he looks like a fucking retard.monospaced
  • i_monk5

    • I was thinking. I never said we should compare the safety net if the United States to that of Scandanavian or Canadian system. I said it’s the best..HijoDMaite
    • compared to other nations. Orher nation’s poverty and suffering is at a level not seen in this country since the Great Depression.HijoDMaite
    • I think this is pretty obv don’t you agree?HijoDMaite
    • Yes, the wealth re-distribution to the .1% has been pure insanity. So if that continues, we will plummet and eventually citizens will revolt.formed
    • as to bankrupting the country, just look at them tax cuts, increased spending and jeopardizing the entire economy with games.formed
    • Oh, and cutting everything that actually benefits citizens. Can't wait for those pre-existing conditions to take effect, that should help my business! Fuck.formed
    • Yes, now that you've had time to see how much better it is in Canada, Japan, most of Europe, etc, you realize you meant better than Syria and Haiti.i_monk
    • That's also the platform of every 2nd year university student, until reality happens.BustySaintClaire
    • So countries that have those things are somehow disconnected from reality?i_monk
    • Dude come on. I know a lot of things sound great but they are not rights. The constitution says “...and the PERSUIT of happiness” not the RIGHT.HijoDMaite
    • 1. Pursuit. 2. Life and liberty precede the pursuit of happiness, and arguments can be made that most of those bullet points serve one or the other.i_monk
    • 3. You enjoy lots of things that aren't specifically enshrined as "rights" but would freak out about if they were removed.i_monk
    • Citizens will revolt. You got that right.docpoz
  • detritus5

    "BlackRock’s Message: Contribute to Society, or Risk Losing Our Support"

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/…

  • i_monk9

    ^

  • PhanLo1

    Lol, keep working tramps.

    • I wonder how much water one could save by reducing the tears wasted crying over the fact some folks are far better than you at making money, Jerry.PonyBoy
    • Lol. It's just some tramp chat Pony.PhanLo
    • I was just bitch-talking Jerry... not you, phan. :P I barely make enough scratch to justify wasting time on QBN so I shouldn't be taken too seriously.PonyBoy
    • haha right. or at least learning how to cheaply desalinate them to use them for there home garden.deathboy
    • Can't take anything too serious on here, it's all sort of a joke.PhanLo
    • but more importantly i think phanlo addition says plenty. "keep working tramps" displays a disdain for work. not like a pat on the back towards work to getdeathboy
    • to a position that you are so valuable to so many people. just a disdain for wealth and work.deathboy
    • What's the point here?formed
    • no real point formed. a person displaying their jelly and adults saying grow up and stop looking at what others have :)deathboy
    • Work smarter, not harder and just stop being poor.PhanLo
    • eh sometimes working harder is smarter right? all relative. Sometimes i work hard over the weekend on non-paid that i know will turn out as paid.deathboy
    • I feel like I've been graphic designing every day since Columbus sailed to America.nb
    • ^OBBTKN
    • good job nb for workin hard. i hope you are talented enough to pull the cheddar with the effortdeathboy
    • if not bartending is a easy gig that can pay far better in right spot with a little charismadeathboy
    • Following this math, you wouldn’t be a billionaire. That’s correct. You’d be a trillionaire. Just saying.monospaced
    • And no way any good bartender can be as successful as a good designer. Derp.monospaced
    • mono you have no clue. A good bartender can easily pull 6 figs. Designers a dime a dozen and average waht nationally maybe 55k?deathboy
    • i know a few gals who fuckin slay it. when i think about it i should be jelly as all hell but than again id hate to be them in that jobdeathboy
    • and it makes sense simple service easier to qualify and value than design which is aesetics and purely un objectivedeathboy
    • at the end of the day i probably think a bartender provides more valuedeathboy
    • A good bartender pulls in 6 figures??? LOL! A good designer pulls that in EASY you retard. And it’s a real career.monospaced
    • depends on city and only a small level of GDs could possibly pull that. avg of GD is 32-63k by a source. others probably differ. but not by muchdeathboy
    • than if you take in wages abroad. eastern block or even africa and you see the GD is a bit of easy field to get in being absolutely subjective for the msot partdeathboy
    • relying on simplistic software tool skills. and you have to question wether the labor of one serving beer may be more in demand from an oversaturated market ofdeathboy
    • designer, and what people respect as value in such a field. im pretty sure a bartender career is superior to grpahic designdeathboy
    • in demand payment and valuedeathboy
  • utopian1

    • "The System is Rigged"utopian
    • Your video shows a rigged system of gov? what does that have to do with capitalism?deathboy
    • And again I'd like to point out every anti-capitalist is about growing gov control. ignoring who might control that gov too.deathboy
    • anarchists?kingsteven
    • Don't mention anarchy Kingsteven, that's worse than socialism! :-)PhanLo
    • anarchy makes no sense. chaos only creates desire for socialism. even anarchy to upset the western order would only set it back. its how we destabalize nationsdeathboy
    • think of how many countries we have freed to be ruled by some dictator. divide and let anarchy have its hay day and people unite under tin pot dictator. anarchydeathboy
    • its not even a system. its kind of a joke to be even included as such a thing. think mostly because fooled repeat the notion its comparable. its the scientologydeathboy
    • in landscapes of religiondeathboy
    • "chaos only creates desire for socialism"
      — i think you just made that up.
      Nairn
    • "think mostly because fooled repeat the notion its comparable."
      — lol, wut?
      monospaced
    • chaos, or anarchy creates a situation to leverage control through numbers. ppl are largely scared by uncertainty. creating desire for tribes and leadersdeathboy
    • if you were too weak to protect yourself from said chaos. what alternatives would you have to strengthen? shit is mad max 101deathboy
    • why anarchy stupidity only strengthens desire for collectivism, tribalism, socialismdeathboy
    • western thinking and rule of law allows individuals freedom from collectivism. pursue own goals, trade value. an ideology and social structure of no slavery todeathboy
    • others whims. surprisingly the idea of anarchy as an alterative to socialism is a joke. its the primordial predessor. If you want to create dictatorship anddeathboy
    • easy control (because free people hard to control) promote revolution and anarchy. historically look at US history doing such thingsdeathboy
    • we destabalize and hope to unite regions under our rule for support. its just interesting finally our own tactics are being used against usdeathboy
    • internationally ( for ad revenue) some general espionage and domestically for own individual ( some collective) gains. We stlll forget arab springdeathboy
    • pionnered sock puppets on social mediadeathboy
    • but none of this is poitned to the original post. a fake attack on capitlism or "free" enterprise. and the intentions of groups promoting this are hoping todeathboy
    • simply deceive you and control you by playing to your base desire of envy, or greed.deathboy
    • Keep your head buried in the sand.
      #MAGA Nation
      utopian
    • haha funny whos head is in the sand to think a #maga nation means shit for argument sake.deathboy
    • anarchy =/= chaos. anarchy is lack or government.cannonball1978
  • formed4

    Nice to see one of Wall Street's most successful standing up to the growing inequality problems in America. Even better is the $100million of his own money he's donating to Connecticut public education.

    It's rather hilarious when we hear people trying to defend "capitalism" as meaning "more gov" or even more pathetic, "lazy folk talk". Try a little harder, please.

    Dalio makes perfect sense, but, sadly, logic doesn't seem to be a prerequisite for any discussions about the wellbeing of America's citizens.

    https://www.barrons.com/articles…

    • Currently the USA has 1 million more available jobs than workers, so we haven't peaked...robotron3k
    • There's the education gap we have. Thankfully people like Dalio are putting their money to their values vs. the current admin cutting everything they possiblyformed
    • can that benefits average American's.formed
    • Vocational education also badly needed.robotron3k
    • How many of those 1 million available jobs are part-time, and or offer no to little benefits?utopian
    • he actually didn't say anything of value...deathboy
    • everything was conjecture. this article was more than likely written by a bot, or someone who will soon be replaced by onedeathboy
    • first of all for your well being of america's citizens how do you think fed interests rates have helped them?deathboy
    • has our monetary policy of 2% inflation and low interest rates done anything but help create an wealth gap? despite intentionsdeathboy
    • I guess you just want to ignore reality then and choose to not care about the point of the article. No surprise.formed
    • I said he said nothing of value. Not ignoring reality. That is the reality. Perhaps your understanding is different and would like to explain wha you took fromdeathboy
    • the article. I have a feeling you took the "feeling" it was targeted and created for. Hit enough triggers to be spread.deathboy
    • But prove me wrong. Show me you didn't get baited by your prejudices being gamed.deathboy
    • I don't get the confusion. It's pretty simple: Wall Street tycoon, arguably a poster child for capitalism, says "capitalism is not working, it must 'evolve orformed
    • or die." Further, that both extremes are bad and people must work together to fix the wealth divide. It's not that complicated.formed
    • The significance is who said it. Basically the opposite of what Dimon just said. It's pretty important when you have WS titan's pushing for wealth change.formed
    • no its not. just shows their positionsdeathboy
    • think he'd lose willingly lose money to support his position?deathboy
    • and no reason just conjecture on capitalism. this is where i believe you got hung up on the click bait supporting what you prefer to believedeathboy
    • I'd love for you to explain in your own words how capitalism has benefited only a single party. wealth aside its like a remora, in mutual benefitdeathboy
    • it is simply a a process of trading value with others freely outside regulation and to mutual benefit of both partiesdeathboy
    • that is capitalism, or definition of it. maybe you think it means something elsedeathboy
    • But be wary of these guys double speak. Tigers don't change stripes and just means they're positioning next targets to fleece.deathboy