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  • Morning_star3

    What puzzles and amuses me about this thread is the constant bleating-on of the left leaning QBN brethren who, for some inexplicable reason, lay ALL the ills of the modern world at the feet of one political and economic system.
    The amount of virtue signalling, posturing, oh-so-trendy horse shit that is posted here with claims that - even with the most charitable and simplistic interpretation - blame a system that can't possibly be responsible.
    The imperfections in the capitalist system, as well as the communist system are the humans - the fucking stupid, selfish, greedy, fucked-up, idiot, power hungry humans.
    Polarising the argument is retarded and self defeating because in 3 years, 5 years, 10 years there will be trend loving, virtue signalling, shallow humans arguing the exact opposite.
    The ridiculous thing is, is that capitalist/communist systems are not incompatible and a society that identifies the good things about each and nurtures them within its political and economic systems tend to blossom and bloom.

    • so says a commie rag ;)hans_glib
    • morning star of reason...renderedred
    • All marketing. It's easy to yell "socialist!", "communist!" than it is to explain that that same person that eats that up benefits from those programs.formed
    • I think when people attack capitalism they are just signaling their unhappiness with the way things work currently. I agree it's silly for them to pretend theyyuekit
    • all have the answers about what the best alternative is.yuekit
    • Craven capitalism benefits the few, hurts the majority. It's really that simple. Leftists aren't pining for a Neo-USSR.garbage
    • But the second bullshit is called on snowflake centrist argument, the conversation devolves into "virtue signaling", "posturing", or "SJW".garbage
    • Are you really confused as to the extent of capitalism's influence over the modern world? What else would you blame systemic problems on, if not the systemi_monk
    • that reaches into nearly every aspect of modern life, defines its values, directs its politics, and indoctrinates generations to prop it up for the benefit ofi_monk
    • a diminishing handful at the top?i_monk
    • A socialist country collapses (after decades of interference, embargoes, assassinations, etc) and it's somehow proof that socialism is poison to all it touches.i_monk
    • But I guess millions are plunged into generational debt because they're lazy, not because capitalism makes it profitable for someone to do that to them.i_monk
    • "It's not the system! Capitalism is perfect! It's the humans who are the problem!"i_monk
    • No; capitalism actively incentivizes the sort of sociopathic shit that's ruining the world in the name of short-lived profit, then tells its victims theiri_monk
    • poverty is a symptom of their own moral failings and character flaws.i_monk
    • Yeah of course the system matters, precisely because people are flawed. Most people will just mindlessly go along with whatever system they are born into.yuekit
    • However I agree with morning_star that a black and white capitalism vs. socialism divide is not necessarily the best way to think about it.yuekit
    • @yuekit And that's kind of an obvious point. Morning_star subscribes to the ideas of the IDW and the Sam Harris types. It's safe to say he's a dimbulb.garbage
    • @Garbage It would also be safe to say that your simplification of the 'Capitalist' problem is similarly dim. Props to you my dimbulb brother.Morning_star
    • @i_monk Life is not fair and neither should it be. Capitalism cannot be sociopathic, people are sociopathic. As i said, the problem is the humans.Morning_star
    • You're saying that our current incarnation of capitalism doesn't sow a greedy breeding ground for thieves that can buy their way out of punishment?garbage
    • Corporations have personhood and are more powerful than nations. The people take a back seat to the bottom line.garbage
    • If you can't understand that in such utterly simple terms, your bulb might be dimmer than mine.garbage
    • "Life is not fair and neither should it be" sums up the sociopathy capitalism thrives on.i_monk
    • communism ruined my country so I always find hilarious people from capitalist countries longing for communismernexbcn
    • @i_monk. Do you think that Malaria, Volcanos, Tsunami, Multiple Sclerosis, Motor Neurone Disease etc is caused by capitalism? Do you think that communism ....Morning_star
    • ...brings utopia? Even though not one single successful example can be given. The political and economic polarity you seem to yearn is myth.Morning_star
    • Nobody is begging for communism, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at.garbage
    • What do you want? What replaces a free market economy? Sure, more social responsibility from huge corporations is needed. And here in the UK we have ..Morning_star
    • ..the monopoly commission and the financial services authority and all manner of regulatory bodies BUT business rise nd fall on their bottom line. What are...Morning_star
    • suggesting is the optimum solution?Morning_star
    • a rebootprophetone
    • A redistribution of wealth? Globally? Regionally? Who decides who gets what?Morning_star
    • You already pointed out that there are many different possible combinations of socialism and free market. It's not really such a mystery, most people on theyuekit
    • left just want to shift the balance towards greater social welfare and more empowerment of workers.yuekit
    • Left-wingers are hardly the only ones saying the current system isn't working. Look at how quickly conservatives in the U.S. lined up behind Trump and hisyuekit
    • skepticism of free trade. Or what's going on in your own country with Brexit.yuekit
    • I think the disillusionment in the UK is more to do with the incompetence of all politicians regardless of their affiliation. And I agree with you that there ..Morning_star
    • room for criticism everywhere. My point is, is that this thread is reflective of the current on-trend political position that is essentially useless and..Morning_star
    • ...decisive. The only real workable solution is, as I’ve said, a mixture of both left and right ideals.Morning_star
    • i love the 'it's not the system, its the people' arguments from the right. like their belief in capitalism and distrust of others aren't one and the same.kingsteven
    • i'm yet to identify one socialist on this site. at least 4 dumb as fuck extreme right anti-communists that get triggered at the thought of any social reform.kingsteven
    • I indentify as a communist.deadsperm
    • I don't see what's wrong with pointing out the excesses and absurdities of the current system. That's all most of the posts in this thread are doing.yuekit
    • And who decided that this was a choice between only late-stage capitalism or communism?MrT
    • cold-war era anti-communist propaganda equates freedom to laissez-faire capitalism and connects the dots with psychological egoism.kingsteven
    • "Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." - friedman.kingsteven
    • ardent believers of capitalist doctrine are anti-communists... they see it as incompatible with their psyche.kingsteven
    • that seems to be where the polarisation stems. marx knew capitalism contained the seeds for its own destruction but marxists are socially motivated so prop upkingsteven
    • the system with social reform rather than let it fail.kingsteven
    • not even the Germans could implement communism, they had to build a wall to prevent people from escaping their socialist paradiseernexbcn
    • 3 things ernexbcn, 1. polarisation of capitalism and communism is daft (see OP and all above), 2 that's a bit xenophobic, 3. they fucking started it :Dkingsteven
    • Did I say something to imply I think volcanoes are caused by capitalism? What a stupid question, part of a transparently stupid straw man construct.i_monk
    • No you didn't. You did, however, imply that my observation regarding life's unfairness was a symptom of the lies and selfishness of a capitalist system. I was..Morning_star
    • ...merely giving examples of things that make life very unfair that can't possibly be linked to the capitalist system. Your argument is flawed.Morning_star
    • Your reading is flawed. A system that doesn't account for human nature or the 'life *should* be unfair" mentality is a flawed system. Capitalism goes beyondi_monk
    • that, however, to disproportionately reward exploitation and unfairness and enshrine them as core principles.i_monk
    • I wouldn't go as far as 'core principles' but i catch your drift. My question (which was asked very clumsily) is why should the economic and politicai system...Morning_star
    • fair? I agree it shouldn't be exploitative or oppressive etc by why fair?Morning_star
  • deadsperm10

    • LOL. Must be true, Canadians also live longer. Although I'd like to test living in the south of France for a while, for science.zarkonite
    • Adolescent communist twit. Euros have been more physically active and ate better. The solution is not to get obese & ill and throw money at trying to reverse itBustySaintClaire
    • The Mediterranean diet & lifestyle is not 'bullshit.' The Arkansas diet is.BustySaintClaire
    • to be honest here, people from the US really eat like they have free healthcareernexbcn
    • If we here in Denmark didn't have free healthcare we/I would be completely broke, as my other half has been in and out of hospitals the past couple of years.Nutter
  • i_monk0

    • Wow..way to minimize the power and shortage crisis in venezuela. Last time I check 30 million californians didn't live 30 days without power.hotroddy
    • nor waterhotroddy
    • capitalism laid the power lines in both countries.hotroddy
    • You're missing the forest for the trees. Capitalism fucks up royally all the time, but never gets the same level of baby-and-bathwater scrutiny.i_monk
    • having a 'capitalism' thread with over 1000 negative posts isn't enough scrutiny.hotroddy
    • Exactly the same as the 8 decades of exported HUAC propaganda, you're right.i_monk
    • Millions of Californians went without power for days.monospaced
    • mono you don’t have a very clear picture of what’s going on in Venezuela. you're misrepresenting whats happening to venezuela for political gain.hotroddy
    • San Fransisco would be a ghost town (like Maracaibo currently is) if it suffered similar power and water outages.hotroddy
  • i_monk1

    The rich are getting free money and capitalism is broken, says US billionaire…

    ‘Trickle-down’ economics doesn’t work

    At the end of the day, the haves will have more and the have-nots will continue to have less, said the hedge fund founder.

    “At the same time as money is essentially free for those who have money and creditworthiness, it is essentially unavailable to those who don’t have money and creditworthiness, which contributes to the rising wealth, opportunity, and political gaps,” Dalio said.

    Making things worse is the fact that workers will become displaced by robots, AI and automation, he added.

    “Because the ‘trickle-down’ process of having money at the top trickle down to workers and others by improving their earnings and creditworthiness is not working, the system of making capitalism work well for most people is broken,” Dalio concluded.

    • oh, trickle down not working? how can that be? :)renderedred
    • Almost like it never really did that anyway, certainly not by design.i_monk
  • i_monk6

    Slave labor camps are supplying American fashion brands…

    The New York Times says that more than a million Uyghurs have been forcibly held in camps and subject to political indoctrination. A United Nations human rights panel said that Uyghurs were being detained in a “massive internment camp that is shrouded in secrecy.” The Chinese government refers to these camps as “vocational training centers.” New evidence has emerged that some of these Uyghurs being coerced to work in factories that make apparel and clothing—and may supply American retailers.

    • deathboy is going to have an aneurysmutopian
    • < This is what communism delivers.Morning_star
    • @morning_star no it's what power and corruption deliver.colin_s
    • @colin_s. It's funny how this thread confuses power and corruption for Capitalism yet the same uncharitable definition isn't appropriate for Communism. Oh....Morning_star
    • ...well, is it warm and comforting in that echo chamber of yours.Morning_star
    • Slave labour is the apotheosis of capitalism. China practices State Capitalism and has since the late 70s or 80s.i_monk
    • Every country practices State Capitalism to some extent or another. I wonder if those folk who perished in the Gulags realised they were victims of capitalism.Morning_star
    • china used state capitalism to move 1 billion into middle class and the gov't is composed of oligarchs.hotroddy
    • and you can look to cuba as another instance of state slavery.hotroddy
    • What's the link between capitalism and this? Slave labour pre-dates even agriculture... this is more like colonialism if anything.zarkonite
    • Interesting note: There are about 10M Uyghurs in Xinjiang, Estimates say 1.5M or 1 in 6 adults interned, mostly males, so 1/3rd of adult males are interned.monNom
    • Which sounds like the majority of the young men have been removed from society, from working, from starting families... it's all a bit genocidey IMOmonNom
    • You can't reason with the qbn communists morning.Hayoth
    • They do this shit in the USA, no?ben_
    • lol utopiandeathboy
    • They call it prison labour in the USA. Protesting/refusing to work is met with indefinite solitary confinement.i_monk
  • utopian1

    • goes to show central planning fails. and how pumping loans and low interet rates for investment workout.deathboy
    • funy his solution is double down on policy that creatwd his issuesdeathboy
  • utopian0

    Johnson & Johnson is recalling one lot of its Johnson’s Baby Powder after tiny amounts of asbestos contamination were found in samples from a single bottle purchased online.

    • another one with no source link... from your info it seems a proactive cause on a single instance would highlight a company super focused on good productsdeathboy
    • but you seem to only post negative material. or hey maybe coming around to the reality where " profitable companies" are not evil with any original sindeathboy
    • So let's get this straight, DB, you are "ok" with asbestos being in the powder? Just want to be clear on that.formed
    • No link is needed, if you watch any business news you'd have seen that and the stock plunge as a result. You'd also come across a ton of other law suits.formed
    • I am a JNJ shareholder and have done quite well with it, but I am not going to make excuses.formed
    • Anyone that says "a company super focused on good products" clearly has zero comprehension of how capitalism works.formed
    • just rub your sweet innocent christian white baby down with some of that baby asbestos powder.utopian
    • well disinformation can be quite profitable threse days. a small lot containing 0.00002% percent...deathboy
    • now this is a voluntary recall of a private enterprise. what would u say of flint Mi water? hell even nv fallon water run publiclydeathboy
    • private and public make mistakes, difference is ppl like formed hope their etfs algos beenfit them in such casesdeathboy
    • which us to say there is or should be pressure for better results but formed stcok cares little to do with results... a downside to "real" markets...deathboy
    • but an action on day to day basis vs years of public service. which is truely and more democratic to vote on any issue?deathboy
    • Yet again, no idea what you are talking about. You seem to be confused as to what capitalism is. It's not for "years of public service", it's money, period.formed
    • You are saying "oh, it's ok if people die as long as some benefit", right? All I am reading is forgiveness for health/death because they make breast implants.formed
    • When there are thousands of lawsuits, it's hardly "voluntary".formed
    • "People like formed..." care about people more than a stock, "they" care more about the country than making excuses for companies or presidents.formed
    • I was talking to some doctors. The powder used talcum, which MIGHT have asbestos. The cases were all related to women who used tons of it for decades.monospaced
    • Not making excuses, but I have a feeling it's not as bad as its being made out to be. The connection between the product and the supposed cause isn't strong.monospaced
    • mono siding with db......formed
    • haha formed you sure like to put a lot of words in my mouth i never said and totally off the topic from what im talking about. more focused on the real infodeathboy
    • and question wether something like this is blown out of proportion to influence algo trading related to your personal concerns.deathboy
    • at the same time identifying the difference in nature of a public shareholder as yourself or a gov municipality when they make mistakes. difference in actions.deathboy
  • utopian0

    Stunning detail emerges in massive data breach case

    Equifax used 'admin' as username and password for sensitive data.…

    • Is a lack of good judgement in private enterprise a real black mark against capitalism... you going all "russian" now?deathboy
    • Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.utopian
    • that doesnt answer the question utopian.deathboy
    • a lack of good judgement in private enterprise isn't a black market, it just happens. It's all part of capitalism, which is private enterprise by definition.monospaced
    • a black mark mono. not black market.challenging the fallacy of composition i believe its called.deathboy
    • the whole point to one fault and it must be inherent in the rest. but for bonus points we can discuss equifax nature and wether its necessary or if its systemdeathboy
    • is fucked up and perverted. the idea of credit checkers make almost no sense. credit changes based on looking at it? its a middleman market i dot think needs todeathboy
    • exist. and may be a decent crutch for insustries, but really its metric are shitdeathboy
  • deathboy-4

    sums it up pretty well

    • this a Hayoth postutopian
    • naw this is a childish education post. like stick your kid on an ipad for basic learning through musicdeathboy
  • PhanLo1

    Lol, keep working tramps.

    • I wonder how much water one could save by reducing the tears wasted crying over the fact some folks are far better than you at making money, Jerry.PonyBoy
    • Lol. It's just some tramp chat Pony.PhanLo
    • I was just bitch-talking Jerry... not you, phan. :P I barely make enough scratch to justify wasting time on QBN so I shouldn't be taken too seriously.PonyBoy
    • haha right. or at least learning how to cheaply desalinate them to use them for there home garden.deathboy
    • Can't take anything too serious on here, it's all sort of a joke.PhanLo
    • but more importantly i think phanlo addition says plenty. "keep working tramps" displays a disdain for work. not like a pat on the back towards work to getdeathboy
    • to a position that you are so valuable to so many people. just a disdain for wealth and work.deathboy
    • What's the point here?formed
    • no real point formed. a person displaying their jelly and adults saying grow up and stop looking at what others have :)deathboy
    • Work smarter, not harder and just stop being poor.PhanLo
    • eh sometimes working harder is smarter right? all relative. Sometimes i work hard over the weekend on non-paid that i know will turn out as paid.deathboy
    • I feel like I've been graphic designing every day since Columbus sailed to America.nb
    • ^OBBTKN
    • good job nb for workin hard. i hope you are talented enough to pull the cheddar with the effortdeathboy
    • if not bartending is a easy gig that can pay far better in right spot with a little charismadeathboy
    • Following this math, you wouldn’t be a billionaire. That’s correct. You’d be a trillionaire. Just saying.monospaced
    • And no way any good bartender can be as successful as a good designer. Derp.monospaced
    • mono you have no clue. A good bartender can easily pull 6 figs. Designers a dime a dozen and average waht nationally maybe 55k?deathboy
    • i know a few gals who fuckin slay it. when i think about it i should be jelly as all hell but than again id hate to be them in that jobdeathboy
    • and it makes sense simple service easier to qualify and value than design which is aesetics and purely un objectivedeathboy
    • at the end of the day i probably think a bartender provides more valuedeathboy
    • A good bartender pulls in 6 figures??? LOL! A good designer pulls that in EASY you retard. And it’s a real career.monospaced
    • depends on city and only a small level of GDs could possibly pull that. avg of GD is 32-63k by a source. others probably differ. but not by muchdeathboy
    • than if you take in wages abroad. eastern block or even africa and you see the GD is a bit of easy field to get in being absolutely subjective for the msot partdeathboy
    • relying on simplistic software tool skills. and you have to question wether the labor of one serving beer may be more in demand from an oversaturated market ofdeathboy
    • designer, and what people respect as value in such a field. im pretty sure a bartender career is superior to grpahic designdeathboy
    • in demand payment and valuedeathboy
  • utopian1

    The Rich Really Do Pay Lower Taxes than You

    Almost a decade ago, Warren Buffett made a claim that would become famous. He said that he paid a lower tax rate than his secretary, thanks to the many loopholes and deductions that benefit the wealthy.

    His claim sparked a debate about the fairness of the tax system. In the end, the expert consensus was that, whatever Buffett’s specific situation, most wealthy Americans did not actually pay a lower tax rate than the middle class. “Is it the norm?” fact-checking outfit PolitiFact asked. “No.”

    Time for an update: It’s the norm now.

    For the first time on record, the 400 wealthiest Americans last year paid a lower total tax rate — spanning federal, state and local taxes — than any other income group, according to newly released data.…

    • That's the tramps fault for not being fucking legends.PhanLo
    • whining & crying cuz the % is lower than yours is a bit disingenuous given the top 1 percent of taxpayers accounted for more income taxes paid than...PonyBoy
    • ... the bottom 90 percent combined. We may pay 'good money' when we see how much of our cash is taken but we're not even a drop in the bucket...PonyBoy
    • ... when it comes to covering the overall nut.PonyBoy
    • before you take the NYT at face value you need to realize they haven't even released there methods. It will be released in a book.deathboy
    • a counter point that smells a little BS…deathboy
    • really i'm curious what percentage top 400 people pay to total tax revenue, but this article seems to have buried search results on that..deathboy
  • nb3

    Going on the internet tod post arguments about capitalism vs socialism might be the best example of mental masturbation.

    Epic wankers

    • Not that there's anything wrong with thatnb
    • I love your cake and eat it too style.deathboy
    • That’s not the quote. You’d know if you actually went to school.monospaced
  • utopian1

  • uan0

  • uan0


  • utopian-1

    God Bless Yankee Doodle Dandy Capitalism

    DEA allowed companies to increase production of opioids as overdose deaths spiked, agency watchdog says.

    The Drug Enforcement Administration allowed manufacturers to produce more and more opioids for a decade, even as deaths from the crisis spiked, the Justice Department's inspector general said in a report released Tuesday.……

    • haha what of this is due to capitalism? we have gov + insurance companies which gov in quite in bed with.a lack of gov oversight due to basic incentivesdeathboy
    • make me wonder if you understand the fundamental idea of capitalism. could me most don't know which is the problemdeathboy
    • Yeah Death, what you're saying isn't new. People call this crony capitalism.T-Dawg
    • Let's not dumb it down to the by-the-book principles of capitalismT-Dawg
    • Because that makes a boring old argument we've all seen in these threads a million times before.T-Dawg
    • and yet is always portrayed incorrectly. yes american indian scalps where easily faked for mexicans but we all know it lets not talk about itdeathboy
    • Why do you seem to meh mashing of the definitions tdawg? clearly this has lil failure to do with capitalism and more so gov.deathboy
    • the gov that is increasingly gaining for control over everything. i'd hardly think of it as meh just dumb it down word play. it a symptom of a larger problemdeathboy
    • that keeps growing as a cure for the problem. poison as antidote.deathboy
    • I'd disagree, I'd say it's corporations increasingly gaining control over everything, including the governmentT-Dawg
    • You don't think it's weird that senators can currently sit on corporate boards, influence policy that affects stocks they own, then retire to become lobbyists?T-Dawg
    • You don't think it's weird that the guy in the white House is a brand name, who ran for president as a way to boost sales?T-Dawg
    • It's not government 'gaining power' that's the problem. It's that the representation of power is imbalanced, Capitol over peopleT-Dawg
    • and yea tdawg that has nothign to do with capitalism. quite the opposite. capitalism is a private method of enterprised where parties trade value freelydeathboy
    • you bring gov in and it loses meaning. politicians start gaming rules an regualtions in favors of industry and its not capitalismdeathboy
    • capitslism is a pure and basic concept and ideal we have truend into a boogeyman which hasnt existed for a long timedeathboy
    • its a goal we should try to achieve. the other is end of the spectrum is no private property and complete control by gov because half control didnt work...deathboy
    • i prefer solutions that limit control. even knowing full well and pointing out one that are engineered to make the free system look like a failuredeathboy
    • when the regualtors say fin ill let you swim but let me ind you hands and feet... are you really truely free to swim. if you drown is private business to blame?deathboy
    • anf tdawg remebr gov in the gatekeeper. private enterprise for the inmate. if the inamte can somehow manage to entice a gatekeeper to sellout. who is the baddeathboy
    • guy for accepting bribes, what types are attracted to the bribes and perhaps the entire system is fucked where the system is designed around bribesdeathboy
    • take the power of business from the gatekeepers and you have no one bribing. well at elast i most sectors not involved in military industrail complexdeathboy
    • military is the one real aspect of gov.deathboy
    • Really, that's interesting, military for what purpose, defense of industry? Expansionism?T-Dawg
    • At what point do neighbours who share the same ideals become enemies?T-Dawg
    • In this purely 'capitalist' fantasy we're conjuring, doesn't the end game just amount to cartels (or companies) fighting for territory and resources.T-Dawg
    • Much like in countries with little government accountability, control or oversightT-Dawg
    • Well let's, rephrase that to 'free market' fantasy, if we want to keep definitions by the book.T-Dawg
    • deathboy, you just argued FOR regulations, you realize that right?monospaced
    • Just to build upon your analogy, if there is no gatekeeper, the inmates run the prisonT-Dawg
    • What I desire is accountability on all sides, at least one can vote for a gatekeeper and try to keep the bad ones out of the systemT-Dawg
    • And what I originally described were symptoms of crony capitalism. If you disagree with the term, take it up with the folks who coined it 40 years agoT-Dawg
    • No tdawg your cartels and companies exist only in the cronie capitalism catalog. Again not a failure of capitalism but of gov enticement to private enterprisedeathboy
    • Can a cartel exist without gov help? You will see if gov stayed away in pretty much any instance you can think of a cartel wouldn't exist.deathboy
    • and that isn't fantasy that is hard fact truth BRO. Do you play video games at all? Do you understand patch systems and behaviors involved? On one hand theredeathboy
    • is a rule maker. That can arbitarily change anything, nerf a gun, fix a spawn point, all those rules effect how the best advantages are played out. And askdeathboy
    • any developer how surprised what they thought would happen did not happen. and surprisingly the game is still excitingdeathboy
    • but when the game gets long in the tooth and everything is so balanced and equal and stagnate, people bounce for a new gamedeathboy
    • a couple parables to take from such behavior. humans desire somw chaos for advantages. and if a central gov gets it all balanced will ppl play?deathboy
    • and military purely for defense. im more a jeffersonian type that rather be farmers than world cops.deathboy
    • i know our leaders scheming and shit make us not look like ghana. i may not respect the methods, but i do like the conveniences of subjugating so many.deathboy
    • i also know most ppl are stupid and see its a us vs them mentality... anti-capitalism displays such mentality. hard to argue against with reason agai tribalism.deathboy
    • world is a fascinating place. but it breaks down to almost all 1 and 0. Indvidualism vs collectivism in our societies. A mix of bothdeathboy
    • Find it hard for anyone to think collectivism scale in direction is a good thing. We may never reach pure individualism through genetic safeties, but withoutdeathboy
    • i find that as a true measurement of mans accomplishment and success. individual freedom. Real enlightenment. See the periods of timesdeathboy
    • were of such thinking.deathboy
    • so basically we're back to rousseau vs hobbesT-Dawg
    • maybe. depends on how you express the similiarities and would need to take a side and why. you seem to understand the argument, yet dont take a side?deathboy
    • or at least back a side. like fuck the individual we all ants supporting the the mighty queens. or we are are all ants but our individual choices dictate who wedeathboy
    • support vs forcedeathboy
    • personall i see the H vs R argument as purely relative to man made concepts. I dont think man is either evil or good. not sure morality plays a part at all.deathboy
    • but reason. why should one man work for another arguement. the hypocrisy and logical fallicies to support all collectivism. it can only exist if the individualdeathboy
    • doesnt. or at least in a early society where mjority of rule makers understood the inherent flaws of society and trie to prevetn them by lawdeathboy
    • and a future society could clean them up, but hey thermodynamics of systems right?deathboy
  • drgs0

    New app claims it can identify venture capitalists using facial recognition…

  • utopian-1

    FAA Misled Congress on Its 737 Max Inspectors, U.S. Probe Finds…

  • uan1

  • uan2