capitalism

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  • Morning_star3

    What puzzles and amuses me about this thread is the constant bleating-on of the left leaning QBN brethren who, for some inexplicable reason, lay ALL the ills of the modern world at the feet of one political and economic system.
    The amount of virtue signalling, posturing, oh-so-trendy horse shit that is posted here with claims that - even with the most charitable and simplistic interpretation - blame a system that can't possibly be responsible.
    The imperfections in the capitalist system, as well as the communist system are the humans - the fucking stupid, selfish, greedy, fucked-up, idiot, power hungry humans.
    Polarising the argument is retarded and self defeating because in 3 years, 5 years, 10 years there will be trend loving, virtue signalling, shallow humans arguing the exact opposite.
    The ridiculous thing is, is that capitalist/communist systems are not incompatible and a society that identifies the good things about each and nurtures them within its political and economic systems tend to blossom and bloom.

    • so says a commie rag ;)hans_glib
    • morning star of reason...renderedred
    • All marketing. It's easy to yell "socialist!", "communist!" than it is to explain that that same person that eats that up benefits from those programs.formed
    • I think when people attack capitalism they are just signaling their unhappiness with the way things work currently. I agree it's silly for them to pretend theyyuekit
    • all have the answers about what the best alternative is.yuekit
    • Craven capitalism benefits the few, hurts the majority. It's really that simple. Leftists aren't pining for a Neo-USSR.garbage
    • But the second bullshit is called on snowflake centrist argument, the conversation devolves into "virtue signaling", "posturing", or "SJW".garbage
    • Are you really confused as to the extent of capitalism's influence over the modern world? What else would you blame systemic problems on, if not the systemi_monk
    • that reaches into nearly every aspect of modern life, defines its values, directs its politics, and indoctrinates generations to prop it up for the benefit ofi_monk
    • a diminishing handful at the top?i_monk
    • A socialist country collapses (after decades of interference, embargoes, assassinations, etc) and it's somehow proof that socialism is poison to all it touches.i_monk
    • But I guess millions are plunged into generational debt because they're lazy, not because capitalism makes it profitable for someone to do that to them.i_monk
    • "It's not the system! Capitalism is perfect! It's the humans who are the problem!"i_monk
    • No; capitalism actively incentivizes the sort of sociopathic shit that's ruining the world in the name of short-lived profit, then tells its victims theiri_monk
    • poverty is a symptom of their own moral failings and character flaws.i_monk
    • Yeah of course the system matters, precisely because people are flawed. Most people will just mindlessly go along with whatever system they are born into.yuekit
    • However I agree with morning_star that a black and white capitalism vs. socialism divide is not necessarily the best way to think about it.yuekit
    • @yuekit And that's kind of an obvious point. Morning_star subscribes to the ideas of the IDW and the Sam Harris types. It's safe to say he's a dimbulb.garbage
    • @Garbage It would also be safe to say that your simplification of the 'Capitalist' problem is similarly dim. Props to you my dimbulb brother.Morning_star
    • @i_monk Life is not fair and neither should it be. Capitalism cannot be sociopathic, people are sociopathic. As i said, the problem is the humans.Morning_star
    • You're saying that our current incarnation of capitalism doesn't sow a greedy breeding ground for thieves that can buy their way out of punishment?garbage
    • Corporations have personhood and are more powerful than nations. The people take a back seat to the bottom line.garbage
    • If you can't understand that in such utterly simple terms, your bulb might be dimmer than mine.garbage
    • "Life is not fair and neither should it be" sums up the sociopathy capitalism thrives on.i_monk
    • communism ruined my country so I always find hilarious people from capitalist countries longing for communismernexbcn
    • @i_monk. Do you think that Malaria, Volcanos, Tsunami, Multiple Sclerosis, Motor Neurone Disease etc is caused by capitalism? Do you think that communism ....Morning_star
    • ...brings utopia? Even though not one single successful example can be given. The political and economic polarity you seem to yearn is myth.Morning_star
    • Nobody is begging for communism, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at.garbage
    • What do you want? What replaces a free market economy? Sure, more social responsibility from huge corporations is needed. And here in the UK we have ..Morning_star
    • ..the monopoly commission and the financial services authority and all manner of regulatory bodies BUT business rise nd fall on their bottom line. What are...Morning_star
    • ...you suggesting is the optimum solution?Morning_star
    • a rebootprophetone
    • A redistribution of wealth? Globally? Regionally? Who decides who gets what?Morning_star
    • You already pointed out that there are many different possible combinations of socialism and free market. It's not really such a mystery, most people on theyuekit
    • left just want to shift the balance towards greater social welfare and more empowerment of workers.yuekit
    • Left-wingers are hardly the only ones saying the current system isn't working. Look at how quickly conservatives in the U.S. lined up behind Trump and hisyuekit
    • skepticism of free trade. Or what's going on in your own country with Brexit.yuekit
    • I think the disillusionment in the UK is more to do with the incompetence of all politicians regardless of their affiliation. And I agree with you that there ..Morning_star
    • ...is room for criticism everywhere. My point is, is that this thread is reflective of the current on-trend political position that is essentially useless and..Morning_star
    • ...decisive. The only real workable solution is, as I’ve said, a mixture of both left and right ideals.Morning_star
    • i love the 'it's not the system, its the people' arguments from the right. like their belief in capitalism and distrust of others aren't one and the same.kingsteven
    • i'm yet to identify one socialist on this site. at least 4 dumb as fuck extreme right anti-communists that get triggered at the thought of any social reform.kingsteven
    • I indentify as a communist.deadsperm
    • I don't see what's wrong with pointing out the excesses and absurdities of the current system. That's all most of the posts in this thread are doing.yuekit
    • And who decided that this was a choice between only late-stage capitalism or communism?MrT
    • cold-war era anti-communist propaganda equates freedom to laissez-faire capitalism and connects the dots with psychological egoism.kingsteven
    • "Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." - friedman.kingsteven
    • ardent believers of capitalist doctrine are anti-communists... they see it as incompatible with their psyche.kingsteven
    • that seems to be where the polarisation stems. marx knew capitalism contained the seeds for its own destruction but marxists are socially motivated so prop upkingsteven
    • the system with social reform rather than let it fail.kingsteven
    • not even the Germans could implement communism, they had to build a wall to prevent people from escaping their socialist paradiseernexbcn
    • 3 things ernexbcn, 1. polarisation of capitalism and communism is daft (see OP and all above), 2 that's a bit xenophobic, 3. they fucking started it :Dkingsteven
    • Did I say something to imply I think volcanoes are caused by capitalism? What a stupid question, part of a transparently stupid straw man construct.i_monk
    • No you didn't. You did, however, imply that my observation regarding life's unfairness was a symptom of the lies and selfishness of a capitalist system. I was..Morning_star
    • ...merely giving examples of things that make life very unfair that can't possibly be linked to the capitalist system. Your argument is flawed.Morning_star
    • Your reading is flawed. A system that doesn't account for human nature or the 'life *should* be unfair" mentality is a flawed system. Capitalism goes beyondi_monk
    • that, however, to disproportionately reward exploitation and unfairness and enshrine them as core principles.i_monk
    • I wouldn't go as far as 'core principles' but i catch your drift. My question (which was asked very clumsily) is why should the economic and politicai system...Morning_star
    • ...be fair? I agree it shouldn't be exploitative or oppressive etc by why fair?Morning_star
  • deadsperm10

    • LOL. Must be true, Canadians also live longer. Although I'd like to test living in the south of France for a while, for science.zarkonite
    • Adolescent communist twit. Euros have been more physically active and ate better. The solution is not to get obese & ill and throw money at trying to reverse itBustySaintClaire
    • The Mediterranean diet & lifestyle is not 'bullshit.' The Arkansas diet is.BustySaintClaire
    • to be honest here, people from the US really eat like they have free healthcareernexbcn
    • If we here in Denmark didn't have free healthcare we/I would be completely broke, as my other half has been in and out of hospitals the past couple of years.Nutter
  • i_monk0

    • Wow..way to minimize the power and shortage crisis in venezuela. Last time I check 30 million californians didn't live 30 days without power.hotroddy
    • nor waterhotroddy
    • capitalism laid the power lines in both countries.hotroddy
    • You're missing the forest for the trees. Capitalism fucks up royally all the time, but never gets the same level of baby-and-bathwater scrutiny.i_monk
    • having a 'capitalism' thread with over 1000 negative posts isn't enough scrutiny.hotroddy
    • Exactly the same as the 8 decades of exported HUAC propaganda, you're right.i_monk
    • Millions of Californians went without power for days.monospaced
    • mono you don’t have a very clear picture of what’s going on in Venezuela. you're misrepresenting whats happening to venezuela for political gain.hotroddy
    • San Fransisco would be a ghost town (like Maracaibo currently is) if it suffered similar power and water outages.hotroddy
  • i_monk1

    The rich are getting free money and capitalism is broken, says US billionaire

    https://au.finance.yahoo.com/new…

    ‘Trickle-down’ economics doesn’t work

    At the end of the day, the haves will have more and the have-nots will continue to have less, said the hedge fund founder.

    “At the same time as money is essentially free for those who have money and creditworthiness, it is essentially unavailable to those who don’t have money and creditworthiness, which contributes to the rising wealth, opportunity, and political gaps,” Dalio said.

    Making things worse is the fact that workers will become displaced by robots, AI and automation, he added.

    “Because the ‘trickle-down’ process of having money at the top trickle down to workers and others by improving their earnings and creditworthiness is not working, the system of making capitalism work well for most people is broken,” Dalio concluded.

    • oh, trickle down not working? how can that be? :)renderedred
    • Almost like it never really did that anyway, certainly not by design.i_monk
  • i_monk6

    Slave labor camps are supplying American fashion brands

    https://www.fastcompany.com/9041…

    The New York Times says that more than a million Uyghurs have been forcibly held in camps and subject to political indoctrination. A United Nations human rights panel said that Uyghurs were being detained in a “massive internment camp that is shrouded in secrecy.” The Chinese government refers to these camps as “vocational training centers.” New evidence has emerged that some of these Uyghurs being coerced to work in factories that make apparel and clothing—and may supply American retailers.

    • deathboy is going to have an aneurysmutopian
    • < This is what communism delivers.Morning_star
    • @morning_star no it's what power and corruption deliver.colin_s
    • @colin_s. It's funny how this thread confuses power and corruption for Capitalism yet the same uncharitable definition isn't appropriate for Communism. Oh....Morning_star
    • ...well, is it warm and comforting in that echo chamber of yours.Morning_star
    • Slave labour is the apotheosis of capitalism. China practices State Capitalism and has since the late 70s or 80s.i_monk
    • Every country practices State Capitalism to some extent or another. I wonder if those folk who perished in the Gulags realised they were victims of capitalism.Morning_star
    • china used state capitalism to move 1 billion into middle class and the gov't is composed of oligarchs.hotroddy
    • and you can look to cuba as another instance of state slavery.hotroddy
    • What's the link between capitalism and this? Slave labour pre-dates even agriculture... this is more like colonialism if anything.zarkonite
    • Interesting note: There are about 10M Uyghurs in Xinjiang, Estimates say 1.5M or 1 in 6 adults interned, mostly males, so 1/3rd of adult males are interned.monNom
    • Which sounds like the majority of the young men have been removed from society, from working, from starting families... it's all a bit genocidey IMOmonNom
    • You can't reason with the qbn communists morning.Hayoth
    • They do this shit in the USA, no?ben_
    • lol utopiandeathboy
    • They call it prison labour in the USA. Protesting/refusing to work is met with indefinite solitary confinement.i_monk
  • utopian0

    Stunning detail emerges in massive data breach case

    Equifax used 'admin' as username and password for sensitive data.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/e…

    • Is a lack of good judgement in private enterprise a real black mark against capitalism... you going all "russian" now?deathboy
    • Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.utopian
    • that doesnt answer the question utopian.deathboy
    • a lack of good judgement in private enterprise isn't a black market, it just happens. It's all part of capitalism, which is private enterprise by definition.monospaced
    • a black mark mono. not black market.challenging the fallacy of composition i believe its called.deathboy
    • the whole point to one fault and it must be inherent in the rest. but for bonus points we can discuss equifax nature and wether its necessary or if its systemdeathboy
    • is fucked up and perverted. the idea of credit checkers make almost no sense. credit changes based on looking at it? its a middleman market i dot think needs todeathboy
    • exist. and may be a decent crutch for insustries, but really its metric are shitdeathboy
  • utopian0

    Johnson & Johnson is recalling one lot of its Johnson’s Baby Powder after tiny amounts of asbestos contamination were found in samples from a single bottle purchased online.

    • another one with no source link... from your info it seems a proactive cause on a single instance would highlight a company super focused on good productsdeathboy
    • but you seem to only post negative material. or hey maybe coming around to the reality where " profitable companies" are not evil with any original sindeathboy
    • So let's get this straight, DB, you are "ok" with asbestos being in the powder? Just want to be clear on that.formed
    • No link is needed, if you watch any business news you'd have seen that and the stock plunge as a result. You'd also come across a ton of other law suits.formed
    • I am a JNJ shareholder and have done quite well with it, but I am not going to make excuses.formed
    • Anyone that says "a company super focused on good products" clearly has zero comprehension of how capitalism works.formed
    • just rub your sweet innocent christian white baby down with some of that baby asbestos powder.utopian
    • well disinformation can be quite profitable threse days. a small lot containing 0.00002% percent...deathboy
    • now this is a voluntary recall of a private enterprise. what would u say of flint Mi water? hell even nv fallon water run publiclydeathboy
    • private and public make mistakes, difference is ppl like formed hope their etfs algos beenfit them in such casesdeathboy
    • which us to say there is or should be pressure for better results but formed stcok cares little to do with results... a downside to "real" markets...deathboy
    • but an action on day to day basis vs years of public service. which is truely and more democratic to vote on any issue?deathboy
    • Yet again, no idea what you are talking about. You seem to be confused as to what capitalism is. It's not for "years of public service", it's money, period.formed
    • You are saying "oh, it's ok if people die as long as some benefit", right? All I am reading is forgiveness for health/death because they make breast implants.formed
    • When there are thousands of lawsuits, it's hardly "voluntary".formed
    • "People like formed..." care about people more than a stock, "they" care more about the country than making excuses for companies or presidents.formed
    • I was talking to some doctors. The powder used talcum, which MIGHT have asbestos. The cases were all related to women who used tons of it for decades.monospaced
    • Not making excuses, but I have a feeling it's not as bad as its being made out to be. The connection between the product and the supposed cause isn't strong.monospaced
    • mono siding with db......formed
    • haha formed you sure like to put a lot of words in my mouth i never said and totally off the topic from what im talking about. more focused on the real infodeathboy
    • and question wether something like this is blown out of proportion to influence algo trading related to your personal concerns.deathboy
    • at the same time identifying the difference in nature of a public shareholder as yourself or a gov municipality when they make mistakes. difference in actions.deathboy
  • utopian1

    • goes to show central planning fails. and how pumping loans and low interet rates for investment workout.deathboy
    • funy his solution is double down on policy that creatwd his issuesdeathboy
  • PhanLo1

    Lol, keep working tramps.

    • I wonder how much water one could save by reducing the tears wasted crying over the fact some folks are far better than you at making money, Jerry.PonyBoy
    • Lol. It's just some tramp chat Pony.PhanLo
    • I was just bitch-talking Jerry... not you, phan. :P I barely make enough scratch to justify wasting time on QBN so I shouldn't be taken too seriously.PonyBoy
    • haha right. or at least learning how to cheaply desalinate them to use them for there home garden.deathboy
    • Can't take anything too serious on here, it's all sort of a joke.PhanLo
    • but more importantly i think phanlo addition says plenty. "keep working tramps" displays a disdain for work. not like a pat on the back towards work to getdeathboy
    • to a position that you are so valuable to so many people. just a disdain for wealth and work.deathboy
    • What's the point here?formed
    • no real point formed. a person displaying their jelly and adults saying grow up and stop looking at what others have :)deathboy
    • Work smarter, not harder and just stop being poor.PhanLo
    • eh sometimes working harder is smarter right? all relative. Sometimes i work hard over the weekend on non-paid that i know will turn out as paid.deathboy
    • I feel like I've been graphic designing every day since Columbus sailed to America.nb
    • ^OBBTKN
    • good job nb for workin hard. i hope you are talented enough to pull the cheddar with the effortdeathboy
    • if not bartending is a easy gig that can pay far better in right spot with a little charismadeathboy
    • Following this math, you wouldn’t be a billionaire. That’s correct. You’d be a trillionaire. Just saying.monospaced
    • And no way any good bartender can be as successful as a good designer. Derp.monospaced
    • mono you have no clue. A good bartender can easily pull 6 figs. Designers a dime a dozen and average waht nationally maybe 55k?deathboy
    • i know a few gals who fuckin slay it. when i think about it i should be jelly as all hell but than again id hate to be them in that jobdeathboy
    • and it makes sense simple service easier to qualify and value than design which is aesetics and purely un objectivedeathboy
    • at the end of the day i probably think a bartender provides more valuedeathboy
    • A good bartender pulls in 6 figures??? LOL! A good designer pulls that in EASY you retard. And it’s a real career.monospaced
    • depends on city and only a small level of GDs could possibly pull that. avg of GD is 32-63k by a source. others probably differ. but not by muchdeathboy
    • than if you take in wages abroad. eastern block or even africa and you see the GD is a bit of easy field to get in being absolutely subjective for the msot partdeathboy
    • relying on simplistic software tool skills. and you have to question wether the labor of one serving beer may be more in demand from an oversaturated market ofdeathboy
    • designer, and what people respect as value in such a field. im pretty sure a bartender career is superior to grpahic designdeathboy
    • in demand payment and valuedeathboy
  • deathboy-4

    sums it up pretty well

    • this a Hayoth postutopian
    • naw this is a childish education post. like stick your kid on an ipad for basic learning through musicdeathboy
  • utopian1

  • utopian1

    The Rich Really Do Pay Lower Taxes than You

    Almost a decade ago, Warren Buffett made a claim that would become famous. He said that he paid a lower tax rate than his secretary, thanks to the many loopholes and deductions that benefit the wealthy.

    His claim sparked a debate about the fairness of the tax system. In the end, the expert consensus was that, whatever Buffett’s specific situation, most wealthy Americans did not actually pay a lower tax rate than the middle class. “Is it the norm?” fact-checking outfit PolitiFact asked. “No.”

    Time for an update: It’s the norm now.

    For the first time on record, the 400 wealthiest Americans last year paid a lower total tax rate — spanning federal, state and local taxes — than any other income group, according to newly released data.

    https://news.yahoo.com/rich-real…

    • That's the tramps fault for not being fucking legends.PhanLo
    • whining & crying cuz the % is lower than yours is a bit disingenuous given the top 1 percent of taxpayers accounted for more income taxes paid than...PonyBoy
    • ... the bottom 90 percent combined. We may pay 'good money' when we see how much of our cash is taken but we're not even a drop in the bucket...PonyBoy
    • ... when it comes to covering the overall nut.PonyBoy
    • before you take the NYT at face value you need to realize they haven't even released there methods. It will be released in a book.deathboy
    • a counter point that smells a little BS https://www.aier.org…deathboy
    • really i'm curious what percentage top 400 people pay to total tax revenue, but this article seems to have buried search results on that..deathboy
  • utopian-1

    God Bless Yankee Doodle Dandy Capitalism

    DEA allowed companies to increase production of opioids as overdose deaths spiked, agency watchdog says.

    The Drug Enforcement Administration allowed manufacturers to produce more and more opioids for a decade, even as deaths from the crisis spiked, the Justice Department's inspector general said in a report released Tuesday.

    https://news.yahoo.com/dea-allow…

    https://oig.justice.gov/reports/…

    • haha what of this is due to capitalism? we have gov + insurance companies which gov in quite in bed with.a lack of gov oversight due to basic incentivesdeathboy
    • make me wonder if you understand the fundamental idea of capitalism. could me most don't know which is the problemdeathboy
    • Yeah Death, what you're saying isn't new. People call this crony capitalism.T-Dawg
    • Let's not dumb it down to the by-the-book principles of capitalismT-Dawg
    • Because that makes a boring old argument we've all seen in these threads a million times before.T-Dawg
    • and yet is always portrayed incorrectly. yes american indian scalps where easily faked for mexicans but we all know it lets not talk about itdeathboy
    • Why do you seem to meh mashing of the definitions tdawg? clearly this has lil failure to do with capitalism and more so gov.deathboy
    • the gov that is increasingly gaining for control over everything. i'd hardly think of it as meh just dumb it down word play. it a symptom of a larger problemdeathboy
    • that keeps growing as a cure for the problem. poison as antidote.deathboy
    • I'd disagree, I'd say it's corporations increasingly gaining control over everything, including the governmentT-Dawg
    • You don't think it's weird that senators can currently sit on corporate boards, influence policy that affects stocks they own, then retire to become lobbyists?T-Dawg
    • You don't think it's weird that the guy in the white House is a brand name, who ran for president as a way to boost sales?T-Dawg
    • It's not government 'gaining power' that's the problem. It's that the representation of power is imbalanced, Capitol over peopleT-Dawg
    • and yea tdawg that has nothign to do with capitalism. quite the opposite. capitalism is a private method of enterprised where parties trade value freelydeathboy
    • you bring gov in and it loses meaning. politicians start gaming rules an regualtions in favors of industry and its not capitalismdeathboy
    • capitslism is a pure and basic concept and ideal we have truend into a boogeyman which hasnt existed for a long timedeathboy
    • its a goal we should try to achieve. the other is end of the spectrum is no private property and complete control by gov because half control didnt work...deathboy
    • i prefer solutions that limit control. even knowing full well and pointing out one that are engineered to make the free system look like a failuredeathboy
    • when the regualtors say fin ill let you swim but let me ind you hands and feet... are you really truely free to swim. if you drown is private business to blame?deathboy
    • anf tdawg remebr gov in the gatekeeper. private enterprise for the inmate. if the inamte can somehow manage to entice a gatekeeper to sellout. who is the baddeathboy
    • guy for accepting bribes, what types are attracted to the bribes and perhaps the entire system is fucked where the system is designed around bribesdeathboy
    • take the power of business from the gatekeepers and you have no one bribing. well at elast i most sectors not involved in military industrail complexdeathboy
    • military is the one real aspect of gov.deathboy
    • Really, that's interesting, military for what purpose, defense of industry? Expansionism?T-Dawg
    • At what point do neighbours who share the same ideals become enemies?T-Dawg
    • In this purely 'capitalist' fantasy we're conjuring, doesn't the end game just amount to cartels (or companies) fighting for territory and resources.T-Dawg
    • Much like in countries with little government accountability, control or oversightT-Dawg
    • Well let's, rephrase that to 'free market' fantasy, if we want to keep definitions by the book.T-Dawg
    • deathboy, you just argued FOR regulations, you realize that right?monospaced
    • Just to build upon your analogy, if there is no gatekeeper, the inmates run the prisonT-Dawg
    • What I desire is accountability on all sides, at least one can vote for a gatekeeper and try to keep the bad ones out of the systemT-Dawg
    • And what I originally described were symptoms of crony capitalism. If you disagree with the term, take it up with the folks who coined it 40 years agoT-Dawg
    • No tdawg your cartels and companies exist only in the cronie capitalism catalog. Again not a failure of capitalism but of gov enticement to private enterprisedeathboy
    • Can a cartel exist without gov help? You will see if gov stayed away in pretty much any instance you can think of a cartel wouldn't exist.deathboy
    • and that isn't fantasy that is hard fact truth BRO. Do you play video games at all? Do you understand patch systems and behaviors involved? On one hand theredeathboy
    • is a rule maker. That can arbitarily change anything, nerf a gun, fix a spawn point, all those rules effect how the best advantages are played out. And askdeathboy
    • any developer how surprised what they thought would happen did not happen. and surprisingly the game is still excitingdeathboy
    • but when the game gets long in the tooth and everything is so balanced and equal and stagnate, people bounce for a new gamedeathboy
    • a couple parables to take from such behavior. humans desire somw chaos for advantages. and if a central gov gets it all balanced will ppl play?deathboy
    • and military purely for defense. im more a jeffersonian type that rather be farmers than world cops.deathboy
    • i know our leaders scheming and shit make us not look like ghana. i may not respect the methods, but i do like the conveniences of subjugating so many.deathboy
    • i also know most ppl are stupid and see its a us vs them mentality... anti-capitalism displays such mentality. hard to argue against with reason agai tribalism.deathboy
    • world is a fascinating place. but it breaks down to almost all 1 and 0. Indvidualism vs collectivism in our societies. A mix of bothdeathboy
    • Find it hard for anyone to think collectivism scale in direction is a good thing. We may never reach pure individualism through genetic safeties, but withoutdeathboy
    • i find that as a true measurement of mans accomplishment and success. individual freedom. Real enlightenment. See the periods of timesdeathboy
    • were of such thinking.deathboy
    • so basically we're back to rousseau vs hobbesT-Dawg
    • maybe. depends on how you express the similiarities and would need to take a side and why. you seem to understand the argument, yet dont take a side?deathboy
    • or at least back a side. like fuck the individual we all ants supporting the the mighty queens. or we are are all ants but our individual choices dictate who wedeathboy
    • support vs forcedeathboy
    • personall i see the H vs R argument as purely relative to man made concepts. I dont think man is either evil or good. not sure morality plays a part at all.deathboy
    • but reason. why should one man work for another arguement. the hypocrisy and logical fallicies to support all collectivism. it can only exist if the individualdeathboy
    • doesnt. or at least in a early society where mjority of rule makers understood the inherent flaws of society and trie to prevetn them by lawdeathboy
    • and a future society could clean them up, but hey thermodynamics of systems right?deathboy
  • nb3

    Going on the internet tod post arguments about capitalism vs socialism might be the best example of mental masturbation.

    Epic wankers

    • Not that there's anything wrong with thatnb
    • I love your cake and eat it too style.deathboy
    • That’s not the quote. You’d know if you actually went to school.monospaced
  • uan0

  • uan2


  • utopian5

    Good Oldé Capitalism at Work Here Folks

    God Bless Big Tobacco and The GOP for their All Their Support!

    #ThoughtsAndPrayers

    • in this age of easy access to knowledge, thinking that inhaling vaporized oil and shit into ones lungs would not have consequences is rather stupidGnash
    • hmm no source... have you noticed the pivot to non licensed stuff being smoked... very curiosu who is paying for these studies if its the original juul and lookdeathboy
    • ing for ways to constrict competition. as far as we know of the 450 in 33 states there in no comon cause of product or anything jsut they vaped.deathboy
    • My intial skepticism makes me curious how many people are hospitlaized each year for a "breathing illness" in total un vape tagged...deathboy
    • i feel strongly like there is a false positive lobbying study being pushed by special interests. im not a vapor i think its dumb AF.deathboy
    • but to the crux of the issue, no source. being shared as anti capitalism and anti GOP... what is the real motivation here?deathboy
    • doing your part to spread fake news that supports your self interests... you ever question why you post such things? if you arent just dancing for ent ofdeathboy
    • someone else. Do you strongly support the idea ecigs are a health hazard and should be banned and going back to smoking?deathboy
    • so strongly that all intention of economics or party had nothing to do with it and that was your intention? the russia social shit is still fascinatingdeathboy
    • https://www.cdc.gov/…
      warning was posted online a week ago.
      uan
    • Vape technology has been around for years, tobacco companies only put it out so it could survive a few more.PhanLo
    • Yeah, not sure wtf vaping has to do with 'Big Tobacco' or 'GOP' - it's big business now, but a massively fragmented industry with loads of independents.Nairn
    • The FDA restriction of flavourings will make it so only big business can compete in this space. Nobody else could afford the studies.monNom
    • Big tobacco owns most of the large Vape companies.utopian
    • Vitamin E acetate, which recently has been used as a thickener, particularly in BLACK MARKET vape cartridges seems to be the culprit—not 'Big Tobacco'.PonyBoy
    • He’s using a hose?
      That’s vape level 9000
      futurefood
    • @deathboy has ground his axe into a mace, and now he wants to beat you over the head with it.zarb0z
    • i think uan cdc article provides more insight than my adamantium +35 mace.deathboy
    • can sum it up as ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ stuff is still being figured outdeathboy
    • we have on correlation without any evidence or anything to back it up. havent even confirmed cases we are grouping togetherdeathboy
    • either cdc is stupid or they are writing PR releases with special interests in mind. ppl here actually read the report and think OMG its dangerous? the evidencedeathboy
    • is so strong! thank god they saved em and i can go back to cigarettes... sighdeathboy
    • Holy shit. You don’t need a link. Just read the news about it. And there is no study. What the FUCK are you talking about? It’s lung damage from vaping. Period.monospaced
    • My father was one of the doctors who diagnosed one of these cases where the kid is dying. Just two weeks ago in California.monospaced
    • I can’t believe you’d say the CDC is stupid. They employ people far smarter and educated and qualified than your stupid ass. Shut the fuck up.monospaced
    • wait mono you say you dont need a cdc report but beleive the cdc? cdc explicitly statesdeathboy
    • pulmonary illnesses possibly related to e-cigarette product use, or “vaping,” primarily among adolescents and young adults. Many states have alerted CDC to possdeathboy
    • to possible (not confirmed) cases and investigations into these cases are ongoing.deathboy
    • That is PR. Reports promotig fear involving something without evidence. It's special interests. Its tabloid.deathboy
    • Hell what exactly did your father diagnose for the kid? Lets start there first.you seem to know all these people with valuable info but not really doing muchdeathboy
    • for argument sake. dad is a west coast doc friend who studies "cowboys". knowing someone is pointless unless you can advance an arguemnt based on knowledge ofdeathboy
    • said experts and still will need scrutiny of data for facts. just how the real academic circles work.deathboy
    • my argument is that they aren't idiots, and there is confirmed lung damage from vapes, you fucking retardmonospaced
    • Yes, that is PR from the CDC. It's not a report you dumbass. I didn't say I don't need a repot, I'm saying there hasn't been a study. Fucking hell learn to readmonospaced
    • The reports are coming in, and the studies will begin. The CDC isn't in the business of making cases, just keeping people safe. There is no conspiracy.monospaced
    • And yes, my father is a prominent west coast physician of 50 years. Doctors practice medicine you idiot, they don't "study" anything. There is no motive.monospaced
    • haha mono the top gov agency for protection "reports" no evidence so far. PR or reports not a difference. You state your dad diagnosed an issue.deathboy
    • diagnosed a respiratory issue? As no study he couldnt relate it to anything. May make false causations since they dont "study" anything. Hey thanks for doingdeathboy
    • the work on how the ill informed parse info.deathboy
    • also find it funny you need to claim your dad as a prominent west coast physician.. what makes one prominent? is it prominent in the field of "study" respiradeathboy
    • tory illnesses... care tp define prominence in this context or just jsut saying shit in hopes no one will ask. tell tell signs of bullshit is indirectnessdeathboy
    • and you said studies will begin with no evidence stated by cdc... how have you already come to a conculsion lung damage by vape? trying to threads of reasonheredeathboy
    • my hypthesis is the capitalism base and my post. no reason at all just follow the signals you are sold. since never really shown any independent thoughtdeathboy
  • hotroddy-12

    • a_aNairn
    • LOL, that's totally how socialism works.zarkonite
    • let the downvoting beginhotroddy
    • LolPhanLo
    • What do you know...The same meme shared on Fox and Friends everyday for the past two years, then Epstein commits suicide.utopian
    • he committed suicide over this meme? more reason to upvote it.hotroddy
    • wrong threadfadein11
    • -1 for terrible screenshot cropfooler
    • Teach your kids about capitalism by making them clean the bathroomi_monk
    • Then, pay them 10 dollars
      Then take 7 of those dollars
      i_monk
    • And give those seven dollars to their rich friend who didn't worki_monk
    • I bet your child won't be a a capitalist for long.i_monk
    • but i monk you just described socialism as well. probably the more realistic version of socialism. well maybe give 1 dollar to peopel and 6 to insidersdeathboy
    • once you allow a state to tax with impunity and redistribute wealth, it doesn't matter if it goes to the connected or the poor. thats socialism.deathboy
    • doesn't this meme relate to Cortez (not even an actual socialist) suggesting a 70% tax bracket? that kicks in > £550,000 income. relatable content.kingsteven
    • it's just so factually wrong, where do you start?kingsteven
    • Look at Lula, Kirchner, and Chavez all 'socialist' and embezzled millions. Their creed is 'capitalism for me. socialism for youhotroddy
    • Cortez is chavez re-incargnated. Same populist rhetoric. The white man's capitalist agenda is oppressing you and keeping you down.hotroddy
    • deathboy: you forgot about profit margins. The parent as the employer takes $7 for himself and pays his employee $3 then take half of the $3 in taxes, but onlyzarkonite
    • $1 from the employer because he's a job creator and deserves to benefit more from the labour of his workers than they do. That's capitalismzarkonite
    • the employer deserves to be rewarded. he's taking a risk. why else would you start a business?hotroddy
    • why do people world wide want to invest in US companies?hotroddy
    • no zarkonite the 7 taken represents taxes. You dont pay 10 than take 7%. Leaving the employer with 3% as profit margin before costs of business which lessen itdeathboy
    • the argument of the old 70% tax rate. But even after taxes if a job creator can only see maybe a 1% profit margin while risking everything is it worth it?deathboy
    • do you think many people will be employed if less job creators out there risking a lot for something worth it?deathboy
    • socialists think through high enough taxes they can create jobs and pay peopel to fullfill them outside market forcesdeathboy
    • you probably have a portfolio and understand risk. you wont get much gains in low risk investment. there becomes a point where the value isnt worth itdeathboy
    • the problem with central planning for labor is they cannot determine what is of value efficiently and quickly to provide incetives to guide marketsdeathboy
    • historically they ruin them through political squabble creating such low incentives no one has incentive to carry anyone.deathboy
    • oh jeez.. screwed up my own base. Employer pays you 10 dollars. Employer cost on those ten are more like say 12-13 w/ taxes. 7 is taken from the governmentdeathboy
    • leaving employee with 3. We do not know the profit margin of the labor. In this case not profit.. but as payer and taxer they take and redistribute labor todeathboy
    • others that didn't earn. splitting the 7 as tax to social program, universal income whatever you want to call it. the one earning wont be a scoialistdeathboy
    • those getting free shit will be. sad thing is you can see how majority rule will work here with one earner and 3 siblings. why democracy fails and republicsdeathboy
    • work. for the most part... still have entrophy to deal with. but it make sense on dog level treat incentivitizingdeathboy
    • entrophy isn’t a word. It’s entropy and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH ECONOMICSmonospaced
    • Physics and economics are separate fields and aren’t related. One is natural the other is not. One based on laws the other not.monospaced
    • @hotroddy - you hate the corrupt individuals, stop blaming the system.fadein11
    • jeez mono triggered by spelling? :( . Curious who told you economics is not natural? True markets are as natural AF. The problem is in the alteration of marketsdeathboy
    • is there a set entrophy(trigger tigger) to any system? Is a market a system? Could entrophy be the gov and regs that eventually ruin a free system?deathboy
    • do you really not see how it all works together even after explanation. i get before. but after? you haven't even expressed a rational hangup.deathboy
    • we humans are matter correct? we have energy and expend it correct? A closed changing system in which transfer from a ehalthy system can only be direct towarddeathboy
    • unhealthy.. or some say equal, science says inert which have quite different meanings. You dont need to talk physics to talk systems and if you google economicdeathboy
    • and thermodynamics you see im not making shit up. ppl have come to some same conclusions. dont get caught up in the details, its abstract thinkingdeathboy
    • deathboy you are an absolute looper. most people get through their liberalism/economics... phase when they're in their teens.kingsteven
    • you're taking something like thermoeconomics (which models human behaviour top down) and twisting it in an attempt to prove a logical existencekingsteven
    • bottom up... you're picking and choosing theories simplify your agenda. try a bit of self-examination, altruism, understanding of other perspectives ...kingsteven
    • to me it seems that the views you express in theory support equality but assume an equal start in the race... it's not that simple and if your not continuallykingsteven
    • examining your own privilege and understand altruistic aims of socialism - to support the weakest in society first there's no conversation to be had.kingsteven
    • @fadein. Socialist policies lead to corruption. The power bureaucrats hold over businesses will corrupt inevitably corrupt them. humans are all falliblehotroddy
    • ha my agenda is truth. @king you had me altruism. show me such a thing is not a selfish independent desire. And in theory i do support equality in an equal racedeathboy
    • you seem to think your godlike central planner hand can alter the race to be fair. taking from some and giving to others. no reason to it. Just whim.deathboy
    • if anything age has taught me how stupid an idea that is. what infallable central planner is needed outside any balance of power to decide?deathboy
    • As far as my privilege.. the only privilege i have is being born in the us. im white trash as fuck and earned everything i've achieved.deathboy
    • and have you ever thought of basic darwinism when trying to support the weakest? or ever increased economics impact of negative gains?deathboy
    • humans have some concepts where they get selfish feelie dopamine hits chasing self defeating concepts. what you are chasing is one of thosedeathboy
    • these concepts are built in logical fallicies in language to describe and perceive the world. if you look at lesser evolved species you see they dont sufferdeathboy
    • from such BS. with greater intelligence comes greater responsibility. and unfortunately gov+educators not helpingdeathboy
    • hell explain how supporting the weakest is good for society understanding basic darwinism, or do you prescribe to the meek will rule religious doctrine whichdeathboy
    • socialism is a derivative ofdeathboy
    • mate, you are fucking brainwashed by 20th century anti communist economic ideology. i've explained multiple times that i'm not a socialist.kingsteven
    • a while ago you're trying to use thermoeconomics to prove your point, a massive part of what modern economic theories have shown is that homo-economicus is BSkingsteven
    • not only are you talking through your asshole your perpetuating theories that are destroying the planet. these theories may have struck a chord with you becausekingsteven
    • you're not a terrible person that feels powerful but needs to justify being a cunt to make a dollar. please read a book published after 1950.kingsteven
    • *powerlesskingsteven
    • Economics aren't natural, markets aren't natural, and thermodynamics has NOTHING TO DO WITH ECONOMICS. Entrophy isn't a word.monospaced
    • wrong again. laissez faire economics is so natural it's bordering on darwinism.hotroddy
    • @kingsteven - I live in California (liberal state) and you are correct that I pay as much taxes as my canadian brotheran. Public transportation is the shits.hotroddy
    • My checks get lost in US post office - only good and reliable for the 3 pounds of daily junk mailhotroddy
    • my point is I cringe to see what public healthcare would look like. We are not Canada, and not Norway.hotroddy
    • trust me it's better than your shack of shit system.fadein11
    • 'laissez faire economics' don't function though. Adam Smith never imagined an Absolutely Competitive Market. Gov't needs to pay for everything capitalism can't.Nairn
    • /won't.Nairn
    • king you say im wrong but you cant seem to articulate why a single pint i make is incorrect. where did my reasoning fail?deathboy
    • like state why altruism is real thing devoid of self interest? Throughout history can you name the perfect central planner? Or best outcome you have seen so wedeathboy
    • can measure in stance to our current standards and look wether its worth it?deathboy
    • And also explain why so many central plans have failed and doomed civilians to poverty and despair?deathboy
    • Definitely need to look at success rate and failures and see what is the difference. One big one is nordic systems praised rely heavily on free market economicsdeathboy
    • where huge failures took free markets out of the picture and tried full control. You say Im wrong, but you need to back it up with some substance. you cant justdeathboy
    • say youre wrong.real world doesnt work that waydeathboy
    • maybe you think I'm unwilling to accept any social safety net. Im ok with a small one and one that doesn't encourage any dead beat behavior. and with anydeathboy
    • safety net one must be concerned a blowhard expanding such net for votes is likely to happen. I have no solution for prevention of that except red tapedeathboy
    • but altruism has nothign to do with such intentions. its quite selfish. ill pay school taxes without having kids because it keeps them from looting me while atdeathboy
    • work and hopefully keeping a strong foundation however edu, especially higher is worse than church on sunday.deathboy
    • and even that is jsut a rationalization for tax taking. do i really want to give up 200 a month to others kids daycare? If i had the choice i'd keep it and putdeathboy
    • razorwire and a healthy dog with big teeth. i think the way you see the post 1950 rhetoric is brainwashing of cake and eating it too. ignoring the individualdeathboy
    • and focusing on the collective similar to pre 1950s, just not many rationale voices these days that can say things any better than the past.deathboy
    • king you also seem accept real equality, but waver in terms of those born without certain tools. Many also born with tools that flounder as circumstance.deathboy
    • seems to me an emotional response devoid of reasoning. wanting the best for everyone and having a hard time letting go it wont happendeathboy
    • and mono you truely have showed your small understanding declaring markets are not natural. i expected as muchdeathboy
    • but im pretty positive im only giving you value through argument. like king i also hope for more but need to accept some ppl are worthlessdeathboy
    • and will never improve which is what really bites me in the balls. the idea if given every opportunity to improve and never happen.it hoenstly makes me want todeathboy
    • write you off. as lower class. a sentiment i can see amongst differing classes. however. to write off is to have blinders. rather not go all hamptons.deathboy
    • but you sure do make it hard with your non sense. I cannot implore you enough to truely look at what you think you know and why you think itdeathboy
    • okay, maybe you are just a cunt. no person is worthless. and mono is spot on with how he's trying to explain but honestly if you claim to have read any modernkingsteven
    • economic theory and haven't come to the conclusion that laissez-faire economics has failed. i'm not sure i can help you.kingsteven
    • maybe it failed for you.hotroddy
    • haha failed modern economic theory. a new age way of saying i dont know shit how to responddeathboy
    • king if you agree with mono that economics is not natural as physics please explain. id love to hear your reasondeathboy
    • when you simply say no no no i just will never accept that cowardice, reminds me of ppl scared of homos going no no no. ideas that are scarydeathboy
    • Economics deal with money, which is a purely human thought concept. Laws and constants that control and bind the universe are not.monospaced
    • Money and economics could disappear tomorrow and there would be no real impact. Alter even one aspect of physics and the universe doesn't exist anymore.monospaced
    • economics deal with much more than money mono its a social "science" and its aspects are bound by the same physical laws we see in science. the problem is thinkdeathboy
    • ing we are above it and can control it like baking a cake. demeaning its true role and what it is. Money and economics cant disappear, and if perception of itdeathboy
    • did it would have a huge impact. Im not saying its as easily alterable as physics. im just saying as natural as physics and physical lawsdeathboy
    • some politicians do think it can be easily altered. but such alterations exude great energy in closed environments and not practicaldeathboy
    • hell basic econ 101 is darwinism based in a rule of law society with a form of value with high liquidity that can not easily be altered.deathboy
    • here you go basic econ mono https://www.youtube.…deathboy
    • and entertainingdeathboy
    • and mono. if the economy went away and you wanted a little food. how do you get it? Purchase it with stocks? Abstract wealth that doesn't matter. through outdeathboy
    • history societies have gone through econ checks that you think don't matter. those who survived have a bit more common sense about what is necessary to survive.deathboy
    • i still think goethe nailed it. and value is only what you can hold and protect that providesdeathboy
    • real problem is people trying to discuss things they cant even keep up with. full of set opinions but no idea how they even got them.deathboy
    • yeah, you... you fucking toolkingsteven
    • uh huh king. u did notice you didn't even argue a point about modern economic theory vs laize faire. Go read some hayek make an arguement against itdeathboy
    • your "modern" is nothing new. Greek and romans both tried it. It didn't end well... Did you ever read goethe?deathboy
    • That shit wasn't as old as romans and greeks but late 1700s early 1800s is quite old to explain the idea of MMT so well. and its method is beautiful.deathboy
  • utopian2

    • I wonder if a multinational pharmaceutical company came up with the Insulin Pen? ... #thingstothinkabouti...hotroddy
    • Again, what the fuck are you talking about? It was invented in Norway where public spending per GDP on health is highest in the world.kingsteven
    • I work in a University designing for Pharmacists, in labs doing research zapping cancers with plasma beams anything you want to know? shit for brains...kingsteven
    • Research which is almost all funded by governments and later developed in to products by pharmaceutical companies...kingsteven
    • what part of the insulin (produced in our bodies) pen (essentially a package/ branded syringe) costs $700?kingsteven
    • The healthcare insurance wrapper.Nairn
    • the analogs developed in labs paid for by tax payers are generate insane profit and doctors in privatised healthcare will not prescribe alternativeskingsteven
    • so some poor fucker has to go and but cheaper insulin in walmart without the associated healthcare advice... how is that not completely fucked up?kingsteven
    • Millions spent in R&D, lobbyists and reps but have nothing to do with how and why these products are developed. The link between profit and deaths is clear.kingsteven
    • I'm embarrassed it's so pricey in Canada.i_monk
    • Someone has to pay for the Scots, i_monkNairn
    • so king you know the costs of development. why high consumer cost?deathboy
    • all i see is a cost in many countries spread, while US rule and regulations have created little competition. and an over consumption of insurancedeathboy
    • makes for a sky high price on basic consumable goods. Ideathboy
    • EpiPen - $8 to manufacture a 2 pack, available since 1977 (R&D costs long since recouped)... Bought by Mylan in 2005 when it cost $57 - they now charge $600kingsteven
    • Because in the States they can charge what they want. In the UK the NHS buys bulk @ $69 per pen. And it's free to the end user...kingsteven
    • (well £8 prescription fee in England, free in NI & Scotland)kingsteven
    • <£80p/m out of my tax funds the NHS and would gladly pay more - Medication, Doctors, Hospitals, Ambulance all included.kingsteven
    • And that's for everyone, not just me... I have mates in the states paying 10 times that for insurance with a fraction of conditions covered...kingsteven
    • And our system would be better if it wasn't for American companies charging stupid money for drugs for rarer conditions that cant be bulk bought.kingsteven
    • Where does the subsidy begin and end. Free market cost with free competition ( patents and licenses) is a bit different.deathboy
    • Like for example UK takes advantage of US pharmeuticals and we pay for it. but a big part deals with nationalized insurances and stuff that ignore marketdeathboy
    • principles. The problem to costs is over insurance. state run, subsidized, and what not. Such programs also in the US lean towards end of life care for profitdeathboy
    • margins. extend life of someone already dead for 1-2 years results in nearly 200K. Also when insurance is over used it looks towards focused efforts in profitdeathboy
    • margins. this does not change wether state ran or not. the only thing changes in state ran is more delay and stretch out costs for budgets more paper workdeathboy
    • the biggest problem with health care is insurance and gov incentives involved with it.deathboy
    • the NHS don't subsidise drugs, the best drugs available (not generics) are free because that is the decent thing to do... the reason our system is inefficientkingsteven
    • is because half-brained liberal wankers like yourself have been underfunding it for years and facilitating it's break up and sell off...kingsteven
    • i mentioned norway, for a small amount more in tax revenue they have the best health system in the world. yes, it's that fucking easy.kingsteven
    • and take your serfdom and racist BS your thinking about spouting about Norway's population and shove it up your hole it's BS... you have been brainwashed.kingsteven
    • I don't think I've ever seen someone on QBN spout ignorant opinion as unsubstantiated fact so much as deathboy.
      Don't waste your time on him, kingsteven
      Nairn
    • hah, Nairn he doesn't seem like a bad lad... some people believe in a god that hates homos, DB believes in some elaborate economic version of "Man the fuck up"kingsteven
    • and in both cases, I don't care what justifies your hardships and gets you through the day, just don't push it on the rest of us...kingsteven
    • norway has oil money, only 5 million people, and highly educated monolithic country.hotroddy
    • folks get upset when I mention venezuela but referencing Norway is more ridiculoushotroddy
    • oh here's the other one right on cue... i'm talking about a small percentage increase in income tax contribution to properly fund nationalised health services.kingsteven
    • the health service in Norway was only fully nationalised in 2002 and investment in infrastructure has centralised treatment in to specialised centers...kingsteven
    • while the UK govt throws money at privately operated regional centres. the Norwegian approach is much more cost effective and improves patient outcomeskingsteven
    • I've worked in the states and you guys pay more tax (well slightly less under trump) than the UK and get shit all for it. nationalised heath care,kingsteven
    • public transport and postal services/ communications infrastructure is not an anti-capitalist or inherently socialist thing to wish for. it just makes sense IMOkingsteven
    • " the NHS doesnt subsidize drugs" haha what is it they do than?deathboy
    • i will agree with your sentiment of not pushing shit on others though. you seem to not want my hardships... yet support others..?deathboy
    • what you like is me shoving my dick of hardships down your throat. the harder the better and more morally devout. what i need u give.deathboy
    • king another thing you can check out is how the a large amount of the biggest not for profits are ran by big pharmadeathboy
    • they game the liberal systems rules lobbying foolish politicians for what sounds like "good" political soundbyte policy. However it is a anti-competitive measudeathboy
    • sure to subsidize costs while gettin larger profits from insurance companies. Subsidizing co-pays is hella lucrative.deathboy
  • Beeswax0

    A little bit on the conspiracy side but Central banks are leaning towards a digital currency to be used as a world reserve currency in the future.

    "Unusual remarks and actions by the outgoing head of the Bank of England and other central banking insiders strongly suggest that there is a very ugly scenario in the works to end the role of the US dollar as world reserve currency. In the process, this would involve that the Fed deliberately triggers a dramatic economic depression. If this scenario is actually deployed in coming months, Donald Trump will go down in history books as the second Hebert Hoover, and the world economy will be pushed into the worst collapse since the 1930s. Here are some elements worth considering."

    https://journal-neo.org/2019/09/…

    • Debt prisons for everyone. Woohoooo!PhanLo
    • not debt prisons its about abstract value of what something is worth. Objective reality to a field strongly ignoring basic reality. How much value doesdeathboy
    • that paper being pushed have when called out.deathboy
    • Money is already pretty abstract, it only has any meaning if you're poor.PhanLo
    • hehe true true. personally i was hoping for QT and a economic decline. Now I think its a race to the end and a big reset.Tangible assets all that is worth a damdeathboy