America is Fucked
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- PhanLo6
- Is the USA even a 1st world country?Chimp
- It masquerades as onePhanLo
- USA is big enough that some parts aren't really that different from Canada, others more like Canada meets Saudi Arabiayuekit
- US vs. Romaniagrafician
- Even the richest parts don’t have universal healthcare.Chimp
- For people below a certain income and 65+ they are covered by government programs and there is the ACA which gives subsidies to cover insurance.yuekit
- But yeah it's definitely not universal and nothing like in the UK where it's all government run. Also insanely expensive.yuekit
- A huge chunk of Americans have quality healthcare subsidized by their employers along with stable jobs.monospaced
- aka, most of the middle and upper classmonospaced
- That is not fine. It puts you at the mercy of your employer. This is why you're so fucked when you lose a job or you do anything to keep one.grafician
- < We have all these in Europe solved, so why tf can't America just borrow all the solutions?grafician
- https://www.economis…fadein11
- 2nd lowest vax uptake in Europe also.fadein11
- Ah yes whataboutism again. It's literally about rights you idiots! Not the quality of a specific system. We have it, the US don't.grafician
- "borrow all the solutions"
"we have all these in Europe solved"
Of course this is a rights issue you muppet.fadein11 - trolling this thread is a low point even for you.fadein11
- trolling!?! everybody around here is seriously concerned you idiot
also for the fucking UK, you guys seem drunk toografician - "So you're glad about it?
Wow.
grafician"
"US v Romania"
You're an antagonising prick. Fuck off.fadein11 - You missed my point. I'm trying to say that a huge chunk of Americans have great healthcare through a provider/employer and therefore don't think about it muchmonospaced
- A lot of people view universal healthcare like the free lunch program. They just don't think they qualify and they know it isn't high quality.monospaced
- Don't confuse this with an argument against UHC, it's not. It's an assessment of the situation where many Americans aren't making this a big issue.monospaced
- Continuity2
I see a lot of comments out there on news article comments sections, people imploring others to vote in the US mid-terms, in order to try and undo the damage the SC wrought.
I don't think this is enough. It seems to me that the US needs to re-design and re-build its entire political system from the ground up.
The way it is now, the republic's system of election and operation is based nearly directly on France's republican model ...
... from the 18th century.
And therein lies the problem. France's republican system of election and government has since evolved as to be almost completely unrecognisable from what it was back when the US decided this was a good model to follow.
Only a complete overhaul will prevent legislative and judicial extremism and binary representation in the form of only two parties.
A re-design and re-built will allow for more parties representing the boradest possible scope of constituents' interests.
- Sure but which one is going to be easier? Blocking Republicans from winning an election + doing even more damage or reinventing the entire US political system?yuekit
- Also, change the role of the preseident to be a ceremonial head of state role, and create a prime minister position that acts as head of government ...Continuity
- ... with far less unilateral power. It's bonkers that one person can have as much direct power as a US president does.Continuity
- I think blocking Republicans _can_ be a short-term goal, yes, but without that long-term goal of reinvention, it's just going to be more of the same ...Continuity
- ... year after year after year.Continuity
- The two goals should not — and, indeed, can not — be mutually exclusive.Continuity
- If we're talking about specific issue of SC overturning Roe then it absolutely would have been prevented by just a small number of people voting the other way.yuekit
- I know, but how many more Roe-like incidents can a country tolerate? And how many times can that country be in election panic mode before ...Continuity
- ... they realise that it needs to be re-done completely, from the ground up?Continuity
- Beyond that sure let's totally raze the system to the ground and start over...I'm not opposed to that. I just worry that it can be an excuse for some people toyuekit
- My point is: the current system promotes binarism which, in turn, promotes extremism, whether legislatively, judicially, or executively.Continuity
- And that's got to stop, if the US is ever going to find its way out of the dark ages.Continuity
- not do anything, same way you hear people say things like "we can't solve climate change until capitalism is abolished" or something. We may not have the luxuryyuekit
- of waiting until the global anarcho-communist revolution has wrapped up before we act on climate change. Most people saying these kinds of things have no ideayuekit
- how to get from here to there as far as I can see...yuekit
- Nop, we don't have the luxury, I agree with you there. But I think that genuinely intewlligent and temperate people in the US should make an effort to kick theContinuity
- process of meaningful change off now. Otherwise, the catalyst could very well come in the form of escalated civil war-like violence.Continuity
- Which is certainly not an ideal situation.Continuity
- Eeek. Pardon the typos. I'm under-caffeinated.Continuity
- No worries and like I said I don't disagree with you in principle. But I think problem here is that there actually are these big splits in American society.yuekit
- Americans can barely agree on some milquetoast gun legislation after horrific mass shootings but they're going to agree on redoing the entire system?yuekit
- There are, of course. But I think that they are — in large part, anyway — caused by binarism of the system.Continuity
- Take a look at the Dems, for example. That party is split up into so-called moderate Dems, and progressives. What that does is more or less ensures progrsssivesContinuity
- ... interested are never really _truly_ representated by the party, much less acted upon. And, indeed, the two factions hate each other.Continuity
- If the system allowed for multiple parties, then progressives could unhook themselves from the Dems, and still have representation in Congress.Continuity
- Yeah I like the European system much better where you can have alliances between different parties.yuekit
- Bingo. Even in Westminster-style partliaments, like Canada's, loose coalitions can have (the Liberals are currently dependent on the NDP's support).Continuity
- But you ARE absolutely right that no-one will agree on changing the US system now. But, I think, someone with a far(ish) reaching voice needs to startContinuity
- ... that conversation by actually broaching the subject. To my knowledge and to date, I don't believe anyone has.Continuity
- The thing is Americans look at their system as basically being handed down by Jesus. They can't recognize that many countries actually improved on it.yuekit
- And if that conversation is either kept warm (or, at least, comes up fairly regularly), then over time, appetite would increase.Continuity
- That's the basis of this ruling after all...SC is saying the right to abortion wasn't in the original Constitution so we're cancelling it.yuekit
- Ha! You're not wrong. But I still have trust that there are relatively intelligent, secular, and common sensical people in positions of influence in the USContinuity
- ... who could help sell that change to the masses.Continuity
- I think that kind of fundamental change could happen...AFTER the current GOP has been wiped out as a viable political force.yuekit
- Hm. The question is, *will* they be truly wiped out as a viable political force. This is where I'm not at all confident, considering the decades of build-up ...Continuity
- ... to it, starting with Reagan.Continuity
- Republicans in the past were more moderate...so yeah of course. Things always change.yuekit
- As cliche as it is to blame Fox News, I think this actually did have a big impact. it was the first time TV was totally partisan. And that only goes back to 96.yuekit
- This is true, media is playing an outsized role, here. And yeah, the GOP were more moderate in the past, also true.Continuity
- Government should be run by AI, what could go wrong?Chimp
- yuekit0
To people who say don't vote, how is this ruling not the direct result of voting?
Americans voted for Bush twice, he appointed three far-right justices.
Americans in their infinite wisdom then elected Donald Trump as president, he did the same.
Along the way American voters elected a conservative House and Senate under Obama, denying him the ability to appoint an additional liberal justice.
All along the way you had people arguing it didn't matter including people on the left like Bernie Sanders' former press secretary here...
These elections were very close, in fact Bush and Trump both "won" with a minority of the vote. That points to the fucked up American electoral system, but it's also just a fact that if a few thousand people had voted differently in key states Roe vs Wade would not have been overturned.
- Bush only appointed Roberts and Alito. There was no third.CyBrainX
- Fun fact: Without he Electoral College Clarence Thomas would be the the only pro-life justice.CyBrainX
- Oh yeah sorry, Bush only appointed two theocratic far-right justices :) But without either of these very close elections it wouldn't have happened.yuekit
- Chimp-1
Do you guys think this will lead to an exodus from the states that ban abortion thus making them even more extreme, further widening the social divide in the US? Or will people stay in their states and try to change things?
- face_melter-5
Instead of giving giving to insipid politicians whose only response to this sinister and abject fuckery is reading poems, telling everyone to vOtE and giB Me MUNnY, put that money towards local crisis and abortion/ reproductive rights orgs.
Mutual aid and support is the only way forward, without the fucking decrepit and flapping bags of dust that allowed this to happen.
Never rely on those in authority to look out for your best interests. Never.
- This is such a hipster view face, sorry but it is...going out to check a box on a piece of paper doesn't stop you from engaging in "mutual aid."yuekit
- If this was the 1964 election where LBJ was running vs Goldwater, one of them supporting Civil Rights Act the other opposing it, will you say the same thing?yuekit
- "here is my home, I will not be silenced" is about an Israeli settlement named Kiryat Shmona that displaced the Palestinian village of al-Khalisa. So democracyPhanLo
- whatthefunk1
- the women clearly didn't hit the internet before putting foreign objects into their vaginas. this is NOT how illegal abortions are done.pr2
- nb0
Let me get this straight.
The Supreme Court isn’t forcing any state to ban abortions. That’s on each state. The people in those states get to elect their leaders. Half the voters are women.
So who’s to blame again?
Is it Mitch McConnell or RBG or Fox News or Obama or Trump or the Senate
- I’m not trying to blame women but this seems like an easy problem to solve if they want tonb
- The Supreme Court voted to dismantle roe v Wade, which gave women the right to an abortion at a national, constitutional level 50 years agomonospaced
- So now, each state can decide their own abortion levels and don’t have to obey a national ordinance granting rights. They can and have removed the right ...monospaced
- .. and in some cases have criminalized abortion too. Nobody is to blame except the rise of extreme Christian conservatismmonospaced
- Trump you can blame partly because he put the players in place to make it happen.monospaced
- garbage3
Oh neat, we have our own Decree 770.
Can't wait for the wave of dangerous black market abortions, and unwanted orphans that the GOP will do absolutely nothing to support in terms of education, health care or housing. There will be waves of unwanted, angry stupid teenagers being born from poor families that can't afford to travel for an abortion.
We're going to refer to our decretei as "Rowies". Just watch.
And a preemptive "fuck you" to any bobos that are ok with this, and don't see that this is just the beginning of 6-3 votes that will strip away our rights.
That especially goes to some of our clowns that throw "commie" around when they get confused. Forced natalism? That's literally out of the commie handbook.
- It’s like they want more people reliant on the system. Socialist scum? LOLmonospaced
- lowimpakt1
The US is a shithole
- nb2
America has the time to reverse reproductive rights but no time to figure out how to get baby formula on store shelves
- pr21
The abortion overturn vote was not about woman's rights but about who decides the laws governing our everyday reality. If it happens on federal level (as the abortion was mandated up to now) or local state level.
Personally i think the local level often is closer to what the voters want.
- How many want to force a pregnant teenager, raped by her father, even with a life-threatening pre-existing condition to have a child?CyBrainX
- There are several states headed in that direction. States' rights is poor argument when some of the states are Oklahoma.CyBrainX
- Calm down, ladies, pr2 is here to explain it to you.Fax_Benson
- This is like saying "the Civil War was about states rights." Technically correct maybe but completely misses the point.yuekit
- wrong as usualmonospaced
- I can imagine your moronic ass saying this to a woman and making a fucking fool of yourself. Of course you would remove the woman from this. Asshole.monospaced
- @mono Don't bother engaging. pr2 has shown time and time again that he's incapable of reason.garbage
- I can’t help myself when confronted with this level of ignorance and reckless, morally fucked thinking.monospaced
- I know, but it's like that old maxin: Never roll in the mud with a pig. You get dirty, and the pig likes it.garbage
- Word.monospaced
- https://i.imgur.com/…utopian
- the usual suspects chirp away like texting teenagers without much reason or concrete thought.pr2
- yuekit, that's exactly the same argument. should an issue be decided on federal or local level.pr2
- some issues are undeniably federal: hard to find anyone arguing that it's ok to enslave people but...pr2
- ...you will find plenty who who have different definitions of where life begins (thus if it should be protected).pr2
- Missing the point. Roe v Wade provided a fundamental right. Any state taking it away is fucked to the core just like your sick gross “soul” you stupid cunt.monospaced
- How you have upvotes is beyond me. You are the problem with this country and I wish only the worst for you in life and for your familymonospaced
- People like you should have to face the results of your idiocy. I hope you have a daughter who gets violently raped and you have to raise the child.monospaced
- And then you can explain that you prefer it that way and it’s her fault, because the punishment for abortion is higher than that of raping a minor.monospaced
- Fuck you, and fuck anyone who upvoted this soulless piece of human garbage. Science denying shitbag. That’s pr2monospaced
- mono once again reveals his fascination with totalitarianism and Nazism. You are a caricature of a human being. Stupid to the core and heartless,pr2
- mg333
A bit more Texas specific, but relevant. This all hit me earlier this week.
The more insane Texas gets thanks to weak-minded, selfish, frightened white Republican men, the more I understand why I was so confused as a teenager and college student by Florida Cuban’s love of Cuba despite the hell it was thanks to Castro. Especially during the saga of Elian Gonzalez being returned to his father in Cuba.
I get it now: those people loved the idea of Cuba, and the fact that Cuba was their homeland. They just hated the leader and when waving flags and celebrating their heritage, they weren’t celebrating Castro. They were celebrating the idea of Cuba.
As a Texan who loves the state I was born in and still calls home, have made an infinite number of memories in, a state that offers some of the most beautiful landscapes and natural diversity of any, a state with some of the best food you can find in America, a state typically presenting an abundance of hospitality and friendliness (especially before political division and the MAGA era made us all loathe each other for our differences), I GET IT. I can celebrate my Texas heritage and all the things above, while absolutely despising the governor and other leaders who are turning it into a backwards-looking, oppressive, ignorant, failure of a state BY DESIGN, simply because a bunch of white men can’t stand equality, are obsessed with guns, and want to keep the populace stupid to achieve their goals.
It all makes so much sense now.
- mg331
As I've seen people say on Twitter, and whom I agree with, this is going to mobilize suburban women unlike anything we've ever seen before.
America's suburbs are full of republican women, sure, but plenty of them are adamantly against losing their rights and lean more socially liberal. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this ruling ends up being a disaster for republicans in the mid terms. That said, we already know that Republicans will do whatever possible to cheat and steal an election, so hopefully they will lose so crushingly at the ballot box that it's obvious they lost.
- I’m not so sure. A lot of people are adamantly against abortion (until they need one.) Older people tend to vote and older women tend not to need abortionsnb
- I hope you’re right but I’m not confidentnb
- Also it will take far too many years to reverse this decisionnb
- Even a landslide democrat victory won’t overturn this ruling. They need to win all the red statesnb
- I'm just glad I live in Illinois and not Texas, my homeland. No abortions planned, but our state is decidedly Democrat, thank Christ.mg33
- I hope this happens, too, and not just women/suburbs. So many thought things were 'ok' and they didn't need to vote.formed
- Republicans could very well go for nation-wide ban on abortion after this. It would be naive to think that couldn't happen.yuekit
- Oh wait it's already happening...
https://twitter.com/…yuekit
- elahon0
Trump takes credit for end of Roe v. Wade after his 3 Supreme Court justice picks vote to void abortion rights
- Continuity3
And just because the last two years weren't surreal enough for you, now the human piece of shit who made this all possible supposedly isn't too keen on the ruling.
From the Guardian live feed.
- Can you believe some people have the audacity to blame the Dems for this!? So insane.monospaced
- I can't believe I'm saying this but Trump is right. This, if anything will prevent the pigs from taking the House and Senate.CyBrainX
- nb0
President Biden (considered the leader of the free world and arguably the most powerful person in the world) just took the opportunity to remind you that his party will fix this problem if you vote for them just one more time.
- Considering a vote for the other side is support for this problem he’s got a point.monospaced
- LoLPhanLo
- Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me indefinitely, forever...nb
- How is he wrong? Americans voted again and again for insane right-wingers like Trump...who then appointed the current Supreme Court.yuekit
- There's literally a direct link between who Americans voted for and this outcome. But people then laugh at the idea of voting as a solution.yuekit
- The Democratic Party needs a reboot.instrmntl
- Once again not a problem rooted in the democrats. Stop that please.monospaced
- yuekit, are you arguing that this ruling is the will of the people?nb
- The ruling itself isn't supported by most Americans, but it absolutely is the product of what they voted for...first they voted for Bush who appointed threeyuekit
- conservatives justices. Then they voted for Trump who did the same. Were they just not paying attention to Republicans' plans to stack the Supreme Court withyuekit
- right-wing extremists? Apparently not...I tried to bring it up but even on this site people were telling me Amy Coney Barrett was super qualified lolyuekit
- It seems bizarre to blame Biden or the Dems when in reality, if people had voted for their party instead this wouldn't have happened.yuekit
- The only party that needs a reboot is the one that lost its way to extremism.monospaced
- The timing sucked for Dems. The open SC seats were during Republican tenures. It was absolutely not the fault of the Dems. Just unfortunate.monospaced
- It also had to do with midterm elections -- if people hadn't voted in a conservative Senate majority under Obama he could have appointed another justice.yuekit
- There are some things you can legitimately blame the Dems for but with SC appointments it couldn't be more simple. You vote for the President,yuekit
- the President appoints SC justices. I don't think American public should let themselves off the hook so easily...in a democracy it is ultimately up to us.yuekit
- Yeah so the people voted for republicans and that led to appointments and that led to this decision. Democracy works, you’re telling me?!?nb
- To be clear not all presidents get to appoint SC positions. They have to be open at the right time. If RBG had survived until biden it would be diff.monospaced
- Didn’t the republicans refuse to even hear arguments for Obama’s SC appointment based on some BS about too close to the electionnb
- And then they changed their minds when it was their turn. Those fuckers. But they keep winning don’t they.nb
- Democrats aren't doing enough to stop Republicans. They need to do more than read poems, pass mediocre gun restrictions, etc etc.instrmntl
- Their first mistake was letting Republicans stop them from putting someone on the Supreme Court during Obama.instrmntl
- OK but what was the solution to that? Americans voted for a GOP Senate, Republicans then refused to let the nomination go forward.yuekit
- Why would you blame Obama? Between him, the voters and the GOP he's the one who was trying to nominate a liberal justice.yuekit
- I didn't blame Obama.instrmntl
- You implied there was more they could do, which is unequivocally false.monospaced
- You implied they only read poems. Also insanely ignorant of reality and flat out wrong.monospaced
- Sure thing Beninstrmntl
- Perhaps I don’t understand the point of condescension as a form of discussion.instrmntl
- *helpful forminstrmntl
- Sorry?monospaced
- I’m just saying that calling it a mistake is not accurate. They tried like hell to get the SC pick and it was blocked. Tragic but not a mistake.monospaced
- _niko5
It's a god-given right to protect the lives of fetuses so they can grow to a ripe old age of 6 and be mowed down by a lunatic with a god-given right to an AR-15.
It's the American way.
- Continuity0
I have to say that I'm kind of surprised that riots haven't already broken out, in the aftermath of this ruling. Is it that people are still in shock?
- maybe the people like the idea?hans_glib
- Read today in the Guardian that 85% of Americans support women having the right to an abortion. So, likely not.Continuity
- The majority do not support this.monospaced
- '[...] an estimated 85% of Americans support legal abortion under certain circumstances'Continuity
- https://www.theguard…Continuity
- For sure not resounding endorsement, I'll grant you, but CNN is also reporting 66% of Americans didn't want RvW overturned.Continuity
- Wait until the first teenage victim of rape has an abortion and is charged with murder and goes to jail while her parents, who voted for this, watch in horror.monospaced
- Of course her conservative parents will support their child being prosecuted and punished to the fullest extent of the law. Better to have her in prisonmonospaced
- some people still haven't found out. my gf did not appreciate this birthday news.imbecile
- sea_sea and Shellie, the two of you must rightly be apoplectic with rage right now. :(Continuity
- Upper middle class will still get their abortions. This primarily hurts the working poornb
- I dunno about rioting, but there are 11 protests scheduled today in LA alonescarabin
- face_melter-6
And here is the Dems response lol
- Quoting biblical verses for a 21st century problem. The dems are just as fucked as the rest of them._niko
- Sorry no they aren’tmonospaced
- The Dems allowed this to happen, so here we are in 2022 when a women's right to body autonomy is destroyed all they can do is tell everyone to vote.face_melter
- Oh, and send money. Because sending money to shitheels like Lincoln Project will fix everything.face_melter
- Wow. I couldn’t imagine a more naive and incorrect response, face. Sorry.monospaced
- Saying the Dems allowed this is ignorant AF. If you’re implying they didn’t and don’t try to stop this then you’ve got your head in the sand my man.monospaced
- This was nothing except radical religious agenda unconstitutionally being passed by corrupt politicians, and supported by the nations deplorable cunts.monospaced
