Intellectual Dark Web
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- yuekit1
It's amazing how almost every person promoted by Sam Harris turned out to be either a right-wing grifter or a conspiracy theorist...Dave Rubin, Bret and Eric Weinstein, Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan, Maajid Nawaz...
Such a weird contrast with Sam's ultra-rational persona and new age intro music.
As far as this idea that the greatest threat to Western civilization are annoying liberals on college campuses, that didn't age too well did it?
- Apart from Rubin none of those people you mention would consider themselves right wing. Apart from Brett Weinstein jumping the shark with Ivermectin, which he...Morning_star
- ...has discussed at length which other conspiracy theories are they promoting.
There doesn’t seem to be any truth to your claims.Morning_star - also Douglas MurrayFax_Benson
- None of them identify as right-wing. Respect their pronouns.palimpsest
- Notice I said either...but Peterson describes himself as a conservative, Rogan is calling for people to vote for the GOP, Maajid Nawaz bought into Trump'syuekit
- idiotic stolen election conspiracies. Wasn't Nawaz kicked off the radio over there in the UK? I don't think I'm unjustified in saying this.yuekit
- As far as the Weinsteins go you really have to listen to scientists to get a sense of what total charlatans they are.yuekit
- Peterson describes himself as a Classic British Liberal. Rogan is also Liberal and has 'apolitical views'. Nawaz was fired from LBC for tweets about...Morning_star
- ...compulsory vaccinations in Italy. Sam Harris has had nearly 200 guests on his podcast, most of which have nothing to do with politics. Your conclusions...Morning_star
- ...seem to support your existing belief and it's just not the reality.Morning_star
- These are the main members of the "Intellectual Dark Web"...these are the people Sam Harris promoted and appeared with at speaking events.yuekit
- https://www.nytimes.…yuekit
- A 2018 article from NYT, are you serious? Harris spent several recent podcasts criticising the IDW trope. Peterson, Weinsteins and Murray have all...Morning_star
- ...voiced similar concerns.Morning_star
- To the extent there was a concept called the IDW, it was based around these people no? I mean you started the thread...yuekit
- Forget about the right-wing thing...none of them look great at this point do they?yuekit
- Like most humans on the planet they are inconsistent, prone to changing opinion, and fallible. I think you should maybe listen to what they actually say and...Morning_star
- ..take an informed view as to whether you find a particular opinion valuable or not. You can't label them as one group with a consistent opinion and agenda...Morning_star
- ...because they aren't.Morning_star
- Just because you don't agree with their point of view doesn't mean they are right wing conspiracy nuts.Chimp
- lol ..the right wing fanboys get all nervous defending their right wing idols not being rightwing.....neverscared
- convservative right wing always to shy or dumb to understand where they are till the shit hits the fan and then they wont have anything to do with it.neverscared
- Which one isn't a nut? Jordan Peterson the drug addict preaching moralism while he's high AF? Peterson's daughter with the all-meat diet? lol.yuekit
- Weinstein the fake scientist spreading disinfo to millions in the middle of a pandemic? To the extent that Sam Harris has disassociated himself from all theseyuekit
- people and now pretends the IDW never existed in the first place, does this not actually back up I'm saying?yuekit
- @neverscared, who's right wing?
@yuekit, addiction and dietary choices are your qualification for integrity?Morning_star - Weinstein is an Evolutionary Biologist and Professor, so not sure where the 'fake' comes from.
You claimed EVERY person Harris promoted is one of two things...Morning_star - ...now you change your argument to something that is again, blatantly untrue.Morning_star
- Bret Weinstein + his wife promote all kinds of loopy pseudo-scientific ideas to their audience, who think they are credible scientists. How is that defensible?yuekit
- Apart from the Ivermectin bullshit which they've both spent hours explaining, name one other ?Morning_star
- And this weird idea of only eating meat, most scientists say this can actually be terrible for your health.yuekit
- https://www.theatlan…yuekit
- @yuekit, i get it, you don't subscribe to the opinions of several prominent public figures that hold some of the same views but your criticisms don't hold...Morning_star
- ...water at a surface level. They don't agree as much as they do agree with each other. Stop trying to dismiss them with one flawed label.Morning_star
- "which they've both spent hours explaining"...what does that mean? Weinstein still insists that he's right and ivermectin works while fear mongeringyuekit
- about the vaccines. But that's hardly the only science related thing he gets wrong, there's a long list...yuekit
- These aren't just opinions...it's spreading conspiracy theories and disinfo that probably killed people...at very least contributed to mass stupidity.yuekit
- Weinstein is like Jude Law's character in the Contagion movie...promoting a fake cure in the middle of a pandemic. This is obviously not worth defending lolyuekit
- @yeukit. Can you articulate Weinsteins position on Ivermectin? And at no point have been antivaxx.Morning_star
- *And at no point have they been antivaxx.Morning_star
- Hmmm OK let's listen to this latest episode
https://twitter.com/…yuekit - Haven't listened yet but based on what you're saying I assume he won't be fear mongering about vaccines?yuekit
- I don't follow all their stuff but I did see interview with Weinstein on Unherd recently and he absolutely still claims he's right about ivermectin, in spiteyuekit
- Hold fire bud, i'm gonna give it a listen.Morning_star
- of this flying in the face of what study after study says. So you gotta kind of conclude at this point he's either lying or delusional.yuekit
- Funny how some on the left today are very closed minded and very supportive of massive corporations and the establishment. It used to be the opposite.Chimp
- its adorable how stoopid and desperate the right is trying to brand their guys as liberals.... like if they are ashamed and cowards to admit they are right...neverscared
- wing ... what would bogost or delanda be if peterson is liberal...lol the do the equation..neverscared
- @neverscared Again, who's right wing? (surely you're not scared to answer)Morning_star
- Morning_star I'm 20 minutes into that latest Dark Horse episode and it's wall to wall fear mongering about vaccines...yuekit
- Maajid Nawaz calls anti-COVID measures a crime against humanity, "war crime level stuff." Bret Weinstein agrees with him.yuekit
- Weinstein refers to the vaccines as "so-called vaccines" that are "mysterious in their content." lol what is he talking about?yuekit
- They then go on to talk about how they were right about everything, everyone else was wrong...Weinstein shares a disturbing anecdote about a listeneryuekit
- who called in to tell him that his show is the only thing keeping them sane...yuekit
- Perhaps you should move to China if you like the Covid restricts so much.Chimp
- I've heard the same Yuekit and I think the problem is that their issue is very nuanced. It's more like Petersons issue with Bill C16, it was never about trans..Morning_star
- ...or pronouns it was about enforced speech. Wienstien/Nawaz's problem is more with the mandatory element and the overstepping of pharma and..Morning_star
- ...government. They talk about this point about 1hr 28mins.Morning_star
- the rightwing anti-intellectuals highly likely haven´t read more than 3 21st century leading philosophers and now they are lost in idiotic comparisons becauseneverscared
- they are on the clownside of differentiation... hillarious to c.neverscared
- Thanks @neverscared, because of you I now know what to think.Morning_star
- Morning_star cmon...there was nothing nuanced that I heard there, they compared proponents of lockdowns and mandates to the Nazis.yuekit
- While also greatly exaggerating the dangers of vaccines...how is this not content for an anti-vaxx audience?yuekit
- Here's a link to a much shorter clip:
https://twitter.com/…yuekit - Weinstein says SARS-2 is "clearly a modified virus"... Vaccines are not safe or effective... Ivermectin cures COVID.yuekit
- Yuekit, there's a difference between blindly taking what Weinstien (or anyone) says as gospel OR considering an alternative perspective in the crucible of ...Morning_star
- If you start listening critically it's almost like a dark comedy...their certainty and self-congratulation about views that are most likely wrong.yuekit
- ..opposing opinion. He was right about the Virus as a Lab Leak way before anyone else. That doesn't make him right all the time, but it does make his...Morning_star
- ...perspective worth some consideration. As far as antivaxers go, he went to some length in that podcast to say vaccines are generally good, just not all.Morning_star
- @yuekit. you've always been measured in your responses and i appreciate that. I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on this but for what it's worth thanks forMorning_star
- the conversation.Morning_star
- I think you need to consider the arguments against a lab leak, which are very comprehensive by this point.yuekit
- This articles for instance does a good job covering it down to the genetics etc..
https://protagonistf…yuekit - Now of course you can't totally rule out that was the origin, but the idea that Weinstein was proven right about this is ridiculous...yuekit
- I don't think his claims about the vaccines and ivermectin are justified at all. So that's potentially three things he's wrong on.yuekit
- What's damning however is not just being wrong but that he doesn't change his mind as new evidence comes to light. He's keeping his audience in this conspiracyyuekit
- bubble, telling them I was right about everything, don't trust the mainstream...yuekit
- The British Medical Journal does a similarly good job from the other side of the lab leak argument... https://www.bmj.com/…Morning_star
- Like I said you can't completely rule it out but recent discoveries actually point in the opposite direction.yuekit
- Also keep in mind the lab leak possibility was raised by a lot of people, one of them was Yuri Deigin, a Russian scientist. That's where Bret got it from.yuekit
- But Deigin himself now calls Weinstein out as dangerous and spreading disinfo...
https://yurideigin.m…yuekit - He's a lot harsher than I am actually... "Some of Bret + Heather’s listeners hold a misconception the two are highly credentialed scientists. They are not..."yuekit
- Why was Facebook deleting posts about the lab leak not so long ago?Chimp
- Who knows...they probably just got too trigger happy with censoring stuff in the chaos of the pandemic.yuekit
- Are you comfortable with the amount of power big tech has?Chimp
- Of course not but what does that have to do with anything? Lab leak was written about in every major paper, Trump talked about it, Biden directed intel agenciesyuekit
- to look into it (they didn't find anything). It was worth looking into and still is, but it wasn't suppressed to the degree people are making it out to be.yuekit
- sted1
The Indian Bar Association (IBA) sued WHO Chief Scientist Dr. Soumya Swaminathan on May 25, accusing her in a 71-point brief of causing the deaths of Indian citizens by misleading them about Ivermectin.
Point 56 states, “That your misleading tweet on May 10, 2021, against the use of Ivermectin had the effect of the State of Tamil Nadu withdrawing Ivermectin from the protocol on May 11, 2021, just a day after the Tamil Nadu government had indicated the same for the treatment of COVID-19 patients.”
- https://www.thedeser…sted
- The WHO has morphed into a political orgGnash
- This is silly...people are trying to figure out what works in a crisis situation. Best available data says it doesn't work.yuekit
- The company that makes ivermectin also doesn't recommend it.
https://www.merck.co…yuekit - Notice they say "no meaningful evidence"...if there is evidence in the future, I'm sure they will change their recommendation.yuekit
- The company that makes Ivermectin notes “a concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.”nb
- The report that that quote is taken from was published in February. There was no data available to support the claim and the 'safety data' relates to dosage...Morning_star
- ...when treating Covid. If you think it's relevant to quote an article that's six months out of date, good for you. I don't.Morning_star
- Mass Psychosis going in the comment section. You little ww2 germansHayoth
- yuekit2
An interesting debate within the IDW...
I'm not someone who watches his show but apparently Brett Weinstein claims that ivermectin, a common off the shelf drug, can end the pandemic, but that governments and pharma companies are suppressing this info. He also makes some pretty disturbing claims about how the spike protein used in the mRNA vaccines is toxic and might be killing people.
https://quillette.com/2021/07/06…
I think it gets at a certain weird problem of our time, which is that you now have all these people on podcasts and in alternative media like the Weinsteins, who give the impression they are very informed.
And they are obviously not stupid, they have some credentials etc. But are they actually informed about the specific issue they are talking about?
The average person doesn't have the ability to dig into the specific claims they are making, and may just end up believing the person with the podcast, who sounds convincing.
- Yeah we treat podcast topics like peer reviewed papers instead of bullshit opinion pieces which they are_niko
- https://www.reuters.…BaskerviIle
- If I sit and listen to a conversation with Sir Roger Penrose talking about, for eg. quantum theory I wouldnt call that bullshit opinionIanbolton
- Of course there are some great podcasts out there...I'm just saying there is danger of people appointing themselves as experts simply due to their social mediayuekit
- popularity. Bret Weinstein isn't even a particularly influential scientist within his own field. But his followers seem not know this...yuekit
- The interview between Brett and Eric was pretty heavy lifting in terms of content but a good listen. I totally get what you mean thoughIanbolton
- Podcasting has blasted people into the mainstream like never before, but now people can find specialist info about pretty much whatever they wantIanbolton
- That's true, just ask me about collecting recordsGardener
- Krassy3
Jordan Peterson launches anti-censorship site Thinkspot
- shapesalad5
Intellectual dark web = a large group of stupid people?
Or a large group of Intellectuals?
- It is neither a 'large' group or according to Cipolla's definition, 'stupid'.Morning_star
- and the masses that follow "conventional" news are any different ;-)mugwart
- scruffics6
Intellectual. Dark. Web.
lol
- Like the description Heavy. Metal. it's just a made up name that the media have picked up on. The journalist Bari Weiss used it first in an article in the NYT.Morning_star
- I'm glad it's brought you some fleeting amusement. Jog on.Morning_star
- yuekit3
Social issues have historically been used very effectively to divide, conquer and distract people.
Imagine if people could direct one tenth of the anger they feel over "social justice warriors" towards real issues like the ultra wealthy and the governments screwing us over, or the destruction of the planet.
- who are the governments, the ultra wealthy and the ones destroying the planet? answer:
us._niko - when we start blaming 'them' for the problems of the world then we have a real problem that can never be solved._niko
- Yup. I stopped listening to Dave Rubin because all he did was complain and whine about SJW's and the left. Tiring, dull and part of the problem imo.inteliboy
- I agree for the most part niko. What I find fascinating and a little depressing is what motivates people. Make a video explaining how the earth is being ruinedyuekit
- and their eyes glaze over. Post a video about how some crazy feminist or immigrant did something somewhere and you'll get 100 million views.yuekit
- yupfadein11
- who are the governments, the ultra wealthy and the ones destroying the planet? answer:
- canoe5
oxymoron of the day
- inteliboy3
Stopped listening to all this IDW stuff (except for Sam Harris).
Every single time I dive back in on some podcast or youtube clip, it's always the same tired bullshit of complaining about the 'radical left'. All they do is whine on and on about the same shit. Get over it.
The world is run by the right. Not by sjw's.
- yes true to a good extent. id say government and policy is driven by the right. culture is run by sjws.cannonball1978
- Don't label them bro! They identify as politically non-binary, they're just exploring ideas. Let them live their truth.deadsperm
- he didn't label them.fadein11
- *cringedeadsperm
- lol, sorry.fadein11
- boobs0
How does one get to The Dark Web?
- tor + vpn. Not 100% sure after that. Every time I went on it I came across some nasty shit that was a bit off an offputmugwart
- Yeah, Wikipedia says the dark web is mainly child porn. And I don't want anywhere near that.boobs
- wikipedia wont set u free boobsJeremyhead
- The Silk Road was an example of the real dark web, back in the early days of Bitcoin.youngdesigner
- You could buy drugs and other illegal stuff anonymously. I think there are still marketplaces like that but not sure which ones.youngdesigner
- And it isn't any more complicated than downloading TOR and typing in a URL (which doesn't work in a regular browser).youngdesigner
- https://darkwebnews.…youngdesigner
- there is a difference between deep web and dark webmugwart
- dark web is criminal.
deep web is stuff not index but goolge/yahoomugwart - I was just going through some basic "main stream" sources and I had an image load and she looked too close to underage. Switched off and felt sick for a week.mugwart
- Yeah people get them confused a lot... you'll often hear "the dark web is much bigger than the regular web" which is not true.yuekit
- They mean the deep web...and the only reason it's bigger is because it's a bunch of boring stuff that isn't worth indexing :)yuekit
- call the support line of your ISPfuturefood
- Morning_star0
@pr2... and everyone else
I started off asking for alternative perspectives/views/opinions from the ones i've been absorbing lately, the majority of which are projected by the (yes, cringey and pretentiously named) IDW. I asked here at QBN because I can't find coherent and considered rebuttals of their myriad views, only name calling, lies and misrepresentations. It's important to me to understand all perspectives and this place, through all of it's faults, is usually pretty switched on, diverse and intelligent.
I take your point about the my lack of contribution. Something I’ve been enjoying which attempts to bridge a gap between some IDW ideas and the left is a YouTube/Podcast broadcast by a group called Rebel Wisdom [https://www.rebelwisdom.co.uk... They include an ex producer from Channel 4 and one-time colleague of the infamous Cathy Newman. They’ve made a series of documentaries that try to unpack Petersons rise to fame and his debates with Sam Harris. They’ve not got a huge amount of content but it goes some way to providing a critical and alternative perspective.
Help me out here, show me where the honest discussion is happening at the same depths and consideration that the IDW seem to take. It’s difficult to create a balanced perspective when I can only find shallow, inaccurate and reactionary content from the other side.
- You're asking for rebuttal of IDW, however IDW isn't really an ideological construct to be rebutted. The thing that loosely holds it together is 'format'.MrAbominable
- Asking for a critique of Petersen seems to be a large part of what you're intrigued by. I'm sure he wouldn't take himself as the norm for the congregation.MrAbominable
- You're right the IDW is a loose collection of fairly disperate folk without one ideology. But the cricism by the left of any of the members is alway the same.Morning_star
- Specifically, lets start with intelligent rebuttal of Petersons and Harris's ideas regarding Marxism, The Wage Gap and Charles Murrays Bell Curve..Morning_star
- totes. i'm sympathetic to your position on this. hope you're not taking my banter as opposition. there's room for dialogue and more than one pov in the worldMrAbominable
- Why do you expect full rebuttals of IDW ideologies on QBN? It’s almost like you’re just challenging the community or complaining about something.monospaced
- To a certain extent I am challenging the community. There are some mighty fine brains who visit here who’s views I respect but don’t agree with. I read...Morning_star
- ... the opinions here and find them on the whole pretty measured. I was hoping for a little direction to where I might find a robust, considered apposing view.Morning_star
- If it’s not an appropriate place to challenge these views then I’ve misjudged the community. Apologies.Morning_star
- I see.monospaced
- As you point out it's a loose collection of views. My meta-critique is that the focus on the PC left as the biggest threat is misplaced. There are real issuesyuekit
- in the world. To name one, 20,000 people are estimated to die of hunger every day due to extreme poverty. Political correctness is very much a "first worldyuekit
- problem" by comparison. So to spend all your time talking about that, especially at a time when people like Trump are in power, seems like a mistake.yuekit
- Yuekit, That’s the funniest thing I’ve seen on here for some time.Morning_star
- Hey you asked for open discussion and debate. Do you genuinely see political correctness and activists on college campuses as one of the biggestyuekit
- issues of our time? Personally I think it's overblown, and especially misguided if that's the thing that leads people to align with conservatism.yuekit
- If you think all this is, is belittling SJWs and College Campus politics (none of which I’m interested in) you know very little of what the IDW are about.Morning_star
- Hmmm isn't that why people like Jordan Peterson and Bret Weinstein are famous in the first place though?yuekit
- If it's not that, then what would you say is the unifying principle between all these people? What's the main point of disagreement with the mainstream "left"?yuekit
- One of the unifying principles is this..Big questions can only be explored with open-minded, self-reflective, grounded discussions with those we disagree with.Morning_star
- The recent debate between Peterson & Harris regarding Free Will is exactly one of those big questions.Morning_star
- The issues the have with the Left and Universities (and i'm speculating) is that they won't engage, under any circumstances. When invited to discuss and...Morning_star
- ...and explore these big questions the response has been to try and categories Harris et al as the far right or homophobic. Thus the negative reaction on campusMorning_star
- There's a YouTube channel I enjoy called rationality rules, which has 4 or 5 videos deconstructing Peterson arguments simply from a logic/fallacy perspective.T-Dawg
- I find them interesting because they examine ideas without getting caught in the emotion of political affiliation.T-Dawg
- ^ Yeah there are actually a lot of good videos on YouTube debunking Peterson. Not necessarily from the left, but from people in the skeptic community.yuekit
- Thanks T-Dwog. I'll have a look. Any recommendations Yuekit?Morning_star
- Sorry T-Dawg (monday morning fingers are not dialled in yet)Morning_star
- Hmmm... check out the debate Peterson did with Matt Dillahunty. I thought he did a pretty good job showing how Peterson's ideas about truth and religionyuekit
- are a bit incoherent.
https://www.youtube.…yuekit - i've think i've seen that, i'm gonna give it another look, Thanks.Morning_star
- it was a great talk, here's the version with better sound
https://www.youtube.…fadein11
- sted1
- b_a_b_y_d_i_c_k-1
"Think about Europe. Secular people all over the world make pilgrimages to Europe. But why? Because of the beauty. Obviously. I mean, that's self-evident. And, it's partly because there are things in Europe that are so beautiful they take your breath away, right? They make your hair stand on and they fill you with a sense of awe. And, we need to see those things. It's not optional. We need to see those things. The cathedrals."
An excerpt from Jordan Peterson: Life, Death, Power, Fame, and Meaning | Lex Fridman Podcast #313
- People come to Europe and marvel that they don't have to cross 12 lane motorways to go to the shops.PhanLo
- You can't cross 12-lane motorways without god in your heart, buckob_a_b_y_d_i_c_k
- :-)PhanLo
- Haha_niko
- I always get an erection when I visit the Palazzo della Civiltà Italiana.palimpsest
- Was he crying when tried to pass off his feelings as fact? What a stupid take, but I don't expect much from him.garbage
- https://i.kym-cdn.co…pango
- woofgarbage
- garbage0
This is preaching to the crowd to anybody that has had to spend a good bit of time fact-checking Peterson's bullshit, but I'm curious if any of his defenders can watch this short video and come away defending him as an intellectual.
It's a very facts over feelings watch.
- Jesuz, this is unwatchable. 2 word clip -> jump cut to reaction, 2 more words, "so what you're saying is". I had high hopes, but I couldn't do 5 mins.monNom
- You're never going to credibly pick apart an argument like this. It's gotta be -> the full thought -> steel-man their argument -> here's why that is wrong.monNom
- You can't really criticise someones intellectual ability posting a video like this.Chimp
- This guy is more unbearable than PetersonIanbolton
- @Chimp Why? He absolutely debunks all of Peterson's bullshit with citations, and fully sketches out why he's a charlatan.garbage
- But he doesn'tChimp
- Oh, so you didn't watch it. Got ya. Otherwise you would have gotten to the whole white supremacy part, how Jordan cherry-picks from scientific studies..garbage
- ..how the authors of those studies have publicly said his conclusions are disingenuous, his crypto white supremacy, and how he's really just a self-help guru.garbage
- That again, is fully cited. If you actually watched it all (I assume you didn't), then that must be some killer Kool-Aid.garbage
- What a bunch of delicate fuckfaces. I'm watching the whole video and I'll shit on your ugly faces later.b_a_b_y_d_i_c_k
- _niko3
Man tricked into coma announces new self-help book
The book, which will be presented as a dozen rules to living a better life, will be written by an author whose daughter tricked him into believing that vegetables are bad for you. Scheduled for release in 2021, assuming the writer isn’t distracted by another tirade on how the Frozen movies are nefarious anti-male propaganda, the new title promises to combine common sense with rambling pseudo-philosophical gibberish.
- yuekit0
Meanwhile Sam Harris seems to have disassociated himself with the rest of the IDW. Calls them "delusional" and "bonkers" and says they spend too much time criticizing the left while ignoring the actual danger of Trump
- As always he explains his points very rationally and eloquently. But it's like...no shit. Exactly the critique many of us were making for yearsyuekit
- For a gang purportedly to be intellectuals, they do seem to among the dumbest motherfuckers on this or any other planet.face_melter
- lots of very upset pseuds on his twitter timeline recentlyFax_Benson
- lolfadein11
- yawnsarahfailin
