Intellectual Dark Web
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- PhanLo1
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- Chimp0
- This is a more intelligent discussion on how Peterson has changed over the past couple of years.Chimp
- Yeah I think David Fuller is one of the more thoughtful members of the IDW or heterodox...whatever they're calling it these days.yuekit
- Peterson was too at one point but as the video explains he's now pandering to his more extreme audience.Chimp
- garbage-4
Said it before, and I'll say it again. Jordan Peterson is a psychotic dimbulb cosplaying as an intellectual, as are the rest of the IDW.
Even Ngo couldn't make sense of this, and he's terrible in his own right.
- I don’t believe in God but I totally get what he’s saying. Replace ‘God’ with ‘how things have played out’.mort_
- He does look pretty emotionally raw though, like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders.mort_
- Lemme guess: You think Travis Bickle is the good guy.garbage
- And it's not emotionally raw, he's on another bender which is why it's insane that people take him as a serious voice. He's done this a million times.garbage
- Lemme guess. You see the world in terms of good guys and bad guys.mort_
- Not at all, but in this case it's a pseudo-intellectual with a drug problem that has way too much influence on the leftgarbage
- And an actual fascist and heartless manipulator on the right. Both are dangerous, Ngo is probably the craftier devil.garbage
- (left/right) being screen designations. They're both far-right fakebrains.garbage
- He suffers from depression. To me, he looks more like someone who needs help than someone on a bender.mort_
- Then you're out of the loop. He's gone on several benzo binges over the years. He's even said himself that he doesn't remember writing things he's published.garbage
- Probably not the most reliable source for sense. The alt-right / IDW crowd are just excited that he has "Dr." by his name.garbage
- So no, not a good guy / bad guy black and white viewpoint. He's got serious issues and shouldn't be taken seriously. He's just confused/scared.garbage
- Sad to hear that, if true. I haven’t really taken notice since the Russian hospital thing.mort_
- Not an "if true" thing. You can google it in 5 seconds. He's got a habit of chaotic benders where he spews nonsense and then crawls back, repeats.garbage
- Cosplaying as an intellectual? He has a long career of being a practicing doctor and university prof.nb
- He’s not perfect (who is?) but if you think you’re smarter than him you must have quite the egonb
- Can you actually state what's wrong with what he said rather than slinging lazy insults at him?Chimp
- You sure make a helluva lot of assumptions about someone you dislike so much. Not watched this, but I know people who’s life he’s literally saved.Ianbolton
- I wanted to see why Peterson is triggering to people, listened to more than a few lectures and I just don't get why he makes people so mad ...atomholc
- I think it's a tribal thing. The left hate him because he points out uncomfortable truths for them.Chimp
- Some people on the left hate anyone that doesn't parrot the official neo lefty narrative.Chimp
- It's not a tribal thing. It's a calling out a fake intellectual that makes his bones by playing an outrage pansy.garbage
- I make my bones in research, and I've probably read and watched more Peterson footage than anyone here. I don't care if he has a degree, he's a fucking moron.garbage
- He is a chore to me, and everything that he hates to himself. End of.garbage
- PhanLo0
- I wouldn't really file Katy Perry in with IDW. Their game is more about making counterarguments to the topic du jour that's outside of their expertise..garbage
- ..in a transparent attempt to generate outrage clicks and book sales. Oh wait... damn KP is IDW.garbage
- No offense, mr science man, but China is a part of the universe, as well. So your theory about learning Mandarin for China and math for the universe is FLAWEDnb
- Morning_star0
After the reported 'gotcha' moment that @yeukit linked to regarding the potential issues with Ivermectin meta analysis, Brett Weinstein talks to Tess Lawrie (MD and PHD, external analyst for the World Health Organization, and an expert in analysis of medical evidence) about the meta analysis results amongst other things.
- Thanks will listen...I do think you have to factor that these two are strongly invested in it working. So probably good to listen to an opposing view as well.yuekit
- I understand where you're coming from, the issue for me is that they are both scientists and their reputation rests on their ability to be scientific and work..Morning_star
- ...within the established scientific principles. It does neither of them any favours to be factually incorrect. Both are willing to change their views.Morning_star
- 42min 11sec. Just listen.Morning_star
- I got 20 minutes in so far :) With disclaimer that obviously this is not my area of expertise...it seems like other people have raised a lot of questions aboutyuekit
- how well you can trust a "meta analysis" to give you a good answer for something like this. You could draw a comparison with what someone like Nate Silver doesyuekit
- in the field of polling. He devised a system where you can feed all these polls into an algorhythm, try to correct for bias and...as you saw in the last twoyuekit
- elections, it doesn't always work. The difference is that people like Nate Silver are drawing on thousands of polls, here Tess Lawrie is drawing on a grandyuekit
- total of three studies when it comes to the ability of ivermectin to prevent infection. Many people have criticized a number of studies she is using as badlyyuekit
- flawed, not just the big one that was retracted. So it seems like her overall approach is being questioned, even beyond this one study.yuekit
- @yuekit. It's her job and she does it for the WHO. I love your confidence but really, do you honestly know better?Morning_star
- I'm not coming up with this myself lol...I was trying to summarize what I've read. Check some of the discussions on Twitter related to this topic.yuekit
- This is a good summary...very balanced.
https://www.youtube.…yuekit - No one's saying it couldn't be useful as a treatment. The question is whether the available studies justify the dramatic conclusions some people are making.yuekit
- Here's a more critical but also very detailed analysis...
https://sciencebased…yuekit - Thanks, I’ll have a read. :)Morning_star
- Krassy1
- Not that I agree with Zizek because he is a Hegelian snot monster that would be more fun to drink with than talk with..garbage
- ..but he is smarter than all of the IDW dimbulbs and would probably object to being filed with them.garbage
- He's at least well read. Sam Harris, Peterson, Shapiro, etc are laughingstocks in the philosophical world.garbage
- palimpsest0
I think we should all take a step back. The left should accept the validity of the questions. The IDW should accept how their discourse is a tool for the right.
- but they don't identify as anything.fadein11
- lingering floaters for clicks and likesfadein11
- Much like a rebelious teen. In the end all he wants is to be taken seriously.palimpsest
- The helicopter parents just want him to turn down the music, it's bothering the neighbors. They just don't get the album, they've only heard one song.palimpsest
- PhanLo0
- Find it a bit bizarre that these intellectual heavyweights only found just as many people are addicted to prescription painkillers than illegal drugs.PhanLo
- I just find it incredibly hilarious that Peterson was strung out on jellies for the past nine years, like some fucking shellsuit ned.face_melter
- ^Lol.PhanLo
- PhanLo2
Probably the best documentary that will ever be made. Ever.
Alex Jones talks like he's struggling to squeeze out a hard jobbie.
- uan2
Andrew Yang is a nice product of this intellectual movement.
- Morning_star-2
@yuekit, you said...
— A great example would be Dave Rubin's recent comment (while interviewing a far-right, anti-immigrant Canadian politician) that because the left is so terrible, he can't blame people if they embrace actual ethnonationalism.
I assume this is the interview with Maxime Bernier? Who isn’t a far right politician or anti-immigration. So why would you say he is? He’s a conservative who wants an open discourse about immigration policies.
I asked for an example of your claim that the IDW is normalising far right views. What you’ve given isn’t that. If you want to have a discussion about the dangers of polarising political views and the absence of a forum where these views can aired, without knee jerk reaction and left or right leaning toddlers chucking their toys out of the pram, then maybe here is as good a place as any. I’m ready when you are, sincerely.
— That is a completely absurd view, but it perfectly captures the skewed framing that goes on with many of these guys -- painting the left in the harshest terms possible, while giving a sympathetic platform to extremes on the other side.
It’s not absurd. Considering the destruction of the centre ground and both left and right leaning organisations and individuals doing their utmost to paint their opposition as extremist, it is a fair point. If there is no centre and the only other places are the far right (as suggested by the left) or Communism (as suggested by the right) what are voters meant to do? The moment they get pissed off with their traditional political alligences being portrayed as super crazy vegetable soup it IS understandable to look for answers elsewhere and if the only places to seek solace are harbouring extreme ideas then the choice seems to be made for them.
This is not just a problem for the left or the right, it’s the whole political landscape that’s under attack from incredibly destructive identity politics. I heard Eric Weinstein the other day talking about how ‘identity’ is a financially cheaper and polarising way to win votes rather than traditional ‘labour’ focussed policies. He might be right.
- re "normalizing" i shuddered at that earlier. largely these IDW people are uneasy about calling themselves Liberals. Now reflexively "Classic Liberals".MrAbominable
- Hmmm I guess we're not going to agree on this. The idea that the ENTIRE left is so extreme that your only choice is between communists and Nazis does seemyuekit
- quite absurd and silly to me.yuekit
- It's easy to lose track of the actual numbers when you are focused on the latest outrage. But in reality, there is barely a majority of Democrats that evenyuekit
- identify as liberal in the U.S. So the idea that they are all commies seems a bit ridiculous, to say the least.yuekit
- Can you not see that in painting Maxime Bernier, a sitting MP in the Canadian parliament, as far right you are instrumental in perpetuating the problem...Morning_star
- ...you are complaining about.Morning_star
- I think you have made it pretty clear where your sympathies life. He's not "anti immigration" he's a "conservative who wants an open discourse about immigrationyuekit
- policies." Same as Trump and Le Pen I guess -- they just want an open discourse? lol.yuekit
- Meanwhile the left is all "neo communists." Honestly, look in the mirror before accusing others of being biased.yuekit
- https://www.thestar.…yuekit
- Ask yourself why you are so eager to defend someone like that, while assuming the worst about the left. The far left is not sweeping to power across the worldyuekit
- as right wing authoritarians are. I have trouble seeing them as the bigger threat.yuekit
- go yuekit +1fadein11
- I have asked myself why i think it's necessary to hear what people say rather than judge them on a false perception. This is the second time you've tried to...Morning_star
- ...imply that i have far right opinions and you couldn't be farther from the truth. You won't engage in discussion but choose to hide behind a self generated...Morning_star
- ...smoke screen of false comparison and lies. You are exactly the the reason why people have such a shitty perception of the left.
Also, that Star article...Morning_star - ...supports the conclusion i came to about Bernier. He's a conservative who wants a discussion about immigration. The article even claims this is just his way..Morning_star
- ...of appealing to those rejecting Canada's SJ obsession, A vote winner if you like.Morning_star
- Do you honestly think Trump and Le Pen are the same ?Morning_star
- I think it's fair to say that Trump, Le Pen and this guy in Canada all attract a far right audience. Sorry if this is an unpopularyuekit
- Don’t be sorry. That’s a fair analysis of the situation.Morning_star
- BonSeff0
- The master race is 5'1"?BonSeff
- And Jewish.Morning_star
- Wasn't referring to Shapiro here, just using him as a measuring stick.BonSeff
- Apologies for getting your message wrong. Who'd have thought that misunderstanding comments, snippets and soundbites could be such a minefield. :)Morning_star
- BonSeff0
- <The man actually believes in the White Genocide Theory and has been part of a UK Channel 5 doc and isn't someone identified as part of the IDW. Your point Bon?Morning_star
- Did you hold a vote with your boys and exile him?BonSeff
- Yes. We all sat round and, at length, discussed Jungs interpretation of the racist architype and decided he shouldn't be allowed in the neopatriarchyMorning_star
- Morning_star-3
[-3]
Sam Harris Podcast
No.145 - The Information WarSam Harris speaks with Renée DiResta about Russia’s “Internet Research Agency” and its efforts to amplify conspiracy thinking and partisan conflict in the United States.
https://samharris.org/podcasts/1…
The podcast frames what is sure to be a very difficult discussion of what the fuck do we do about the exploitation of news and social media channels. How much manipulation we are prepared to tolerate and ultimately, what is freedom of speech.
With Sam Harris and now Jordan Peterson and Dave Rubin having left Patreon due to inhibited freedoms, censorship issues and political bias, it seems to me that the very structure of how we interact as humans and who can we ultimately trust is under scrutiny.
Are you sure they're you friends?
- Trust no-one.
Kill the rest.PhanLo - Is the 'Lo' part of your name short for 'Lonely'? ;)Morning_star
- You r listening to a podcast about intellectual bubbles while being in the bubble. Fascinating.pr2
- @pr2 I'd invite you to, perhaps, listen to the podcast before broadcasting your laser like analysis. I wouldn't want to look ignorant and foolish.Morning_star
- And i invite you to broaden your horizon. By listening to all those same folks - you are reinforcing your bubble because they all present...pr2
- ...similar view of reality (more or less).pr2
- Clearly the very structure of how we interact as humans is now under threat because... uh... three guys left a website.yuekit
- Do you not understand how some people start to see this gang as a bit tedious and self-important when even their fans are penning lines like that?yuekit
- +pr2Salarrue
- @pr2 you are mistaken if you think that I don’t have a broad diet of opinion, from every perspective. This is one particular category of perspective that I...Morning_star
- ... is largely prejudged and dismissed without interrogation. I think this group have something valuable to say, however difficult it might be to hear.Morning_star
- @yeukit. Keep on attacking the people if you want. In doing so you completely miss the idea.Morning_star
- Sorry but aren't you the one who framed them leaving Patreon (which let's be honest, no one is going to remember a month from now) as some kind of watershed?yuekit
- No, not watershed by any stretch of the imagination. How about listening to the podcast? you may then understand the broader point about censorship and the...Morning_star
- ...freedom of speech issues when Patreon is told by MasterCard which creators it should ban. If it doesn’t bother you then..Morning_star
- ...cool carry on with the attacks on the men and not the ideas. You’re talking but saying nothing.Morning_star
- haha cmon there is nothing so difficult to grasp here. Sure it's a nuanced issue around online speech and who is permitted on which platform. At the same time Iyuekit
- think Jordan Peterson will find himself in a bind if he really tries to start his own version of Patreon. When you consider that past attempts to start "freeyuekit
- speech" alternatives such as Gab and Voat quickly degenerated into homes for the far right and white nationalists.yuekit
- Does he want that association? Or is he willing to engage in his own censorship to some degree? If the answer is yes, then its hard to completely fault Patreon.yuekit
- I'd rather listen to ALL voices, however repugnant, than the few voices that are deemed appropriate by a profit driven financial institution. C'mon, the...Morning_star
- ...hypocrisy alone is something noteable. FWIW the podcast is illuminating, particularly in terms of the depth of the manipulation Russia had in the last US...Morning_star
- ...election. It's well worth an hour if you have one.Morning_star
- So do you then prefer Gab to Twitter and Voat to Reddit? Have you looked at those sites? I'm just speaking to the reality of what happens when you advertiseyuekit
- setting up a site that will never censor anything. It's gonna become a haven for Nazis, just due to the nature of online discourse right now.yuekit
- Do you understand how much the US is manipulating other elections? The Russian manipulation is a trickle in comparison to the flood gate bursting open.pr2
- And 'no' it really doesn't seem that you have a broad appetite. You seem to be preoccupied with a limited range of the "usual suspects."pr2
- With this limited appetite you yourself (not the machine of the system) close you off in a thought bubble you so desperately are trying to burst open.pr2
- (Nothing against you specifically as MANY people are doing just that nowadays.)pr2
- @pr2 . The title of this thread is 'Intellectual Dark Web' and that is what i try to discuss here. Apologies if that limits the discussion. You're free to..Morning_star
- ...start any number of threads about any subject you like. I'd gladly contribute if you were ever to bring an idea to discuss.Morning_star
- Trust no-one.
- inteliboy2
What Harris, Peterson etc. say isn't gospel and half the shit I don't agree with. But it's often interesting, healthy public discourse - something we've sorely been missing for decades due to being glued (and controlled?) to the mass media TV idiot box.
Agreed, it's a shame that so many dismiss these speakers because of the alt-right idiots hijiacking and twisting their narrative, and subsequently the far left screaming and shouting at them like little children with no attempt at an intelligent debate.
Suddenly a bunch of reasonable, pretty middle of the road, if not boring, uni lecturer/professor types are "nazis" and "mysoginists". Hmm ok.
- severian-1
What if social justice warriors could direct one tenth of the anger they feel towards REAL issues instead of artificially inseminated cows and zim zurs.
They can all get fucked.
- most of those are real issues.mugwart
- ^ you're a moron.severian
- Yeah they are idiots too but how many actual extremist third wave feminists are there anyway?yuekit
- The anti-SJW and alt-right movements seem to be many times bigger than the extreme feminists they spend so much time fear mongering over.yuekit
- Both sides are pushing too far. Both extremes need to be throat punched.severian
- Bit hostile, your being a cuntmugwart
- If you think pronouns are a real issue. you need to be culled.severian
- No I dont think there are important. My importance is how we communicate to each other. Research the effect the animal Industry is having on environmentmugwart
- Cut out shot meat and diary, eat decently farmed food and stop buying slave trade items and the world would be 3 fold bettermugwart
- All nice and fuzzy, but yet impossible. Too many people on this planet to feed. It will never happen.severian
- Said with respect, your very wrong. Good farming and modernization and we all will be laughing.mugwart
- BonSeff0
- Jordan On the Cider https://www.youtube.…PhanLo
- Haven't watched as I hate Kermit voice, but is this his made up story about being awake for 2 weeks after drinking cider vinegar lol?fadein11