Ban the Burqa?
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- BusterBoy
Yes or no? Are the French right to ban the wearing of the Burqa in public?
My take - I believe society’s right to view someone’s face far outweighs any outdated religious edict that mandates covering up and wearing this provocative cultural garb.
Just a hunch, and not based in fact, but I would say the vast majority of Muslim women who wear the Burqa and claim it is by choice, only say this to avoid persecution by muslim men.
- dbloc0
- In retrospect, thread should have ended here. Oh well..ukit
- why, to scared to talk about it?FredMcWoozy
- neue75_bold0
"society's right to view someone's face"
really?
I think the notion of banning it is absolutely ridiculous and ignorant... I'd be more empathetic towards the banning of skinny jeans...
- is a kkk outfit OK to wear down the street?BusterBoy
- are you equating muslim women with the kkk? erk?bigtrick
- not at all...but both are forms of identity supression and cultural repression to some.BusterBoy
- and, to answer your question, yes it is ok to wear a pointy hat in the street:
http://en.wikipedia.…bigtrick - i'd say that's a huge stretch. if a burqa is a symbol of repression, so is a christian cross.bigtrick
- the cross absolutely is a symbol of repression.set
- Is Jesus was shot would Christians wear gun medallions around their necks?jruggs
- bigtrick0
Wrong to ban it. it's a freedom thing. The argument that society has the right to view someone's face, therefore burqas should be banned, carries as much weight as society having the right to view someone's hair, so yarmulkes should be banned.
There's a lot more history to this particular ban. Due to the Algerian war, there is a lot of... racial distaste in France for Algerians, who are a significant minority there. The ban is sort of a proxy for the undercurrent of racism that France is still suffering through from those days.
More on the war:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alg…
- Amicus0
Most western societies are based on openness and freedom and the Burqua doesn't fit in with this culture. If they want to move into these types of countries people should be accepting of the culture that is already there, and not try to change it to their way of thinking.
I think countries have every right to create laws that respect their culture, traditions and history.
- most of these 'cultures' are based on the retention of individual cultures though...neue75_bold
- there's fair merit to this train of thought i think.airey
- I agree with this in a general sense too. It's unfortunate that it's come to this, but most countries would do the same.ukit
- airey0
"society’s right to view someone’s face"
this isn't a right. it's your opinion on what a 'right' should be."Just a hunch, and not based in fact, but I would say the vast majority of Muslim women who wear the Burqa and claim it is by choice, only say this to avoid persecution by muslim men."
this is also just your opinion and not complete but certainly bullshit.do some actual reading and research. to start with there's a fantastic documentary by the BBC world service about this very thing. they interview a lady who is promoting the niqab (the burqa is the full body outer garment) usage. she in fact started wearing even though her husband really isn't into it.
most important is the fact that it is a niqab ban, not a burqa ban. the burqa is the full body outer garment as mentioned above.
don't have the arrogance to presume you understand other cultures belief systems when measuring them against your own. a mormon might say you drink and smoke because you're a lost soul or trying to escape reality whereas i just think it's nice to have a mental break from time to time. your perspective is given by what belief system and morals you're learnt growing up.
personally i think it's ridiculous to ban it because we're all scared that it hides a terrorist underneath. do you think many of the terrorist cells around the western world are seriously going to do anything that makes them stand out like this? by pushing against peoples deep seated beliefs we're just going to make enemies of them which does the opposite of what we really want to achieve.
that;s just me quickly and badly written 2 cents. i'm probably wrong.
- ukit0
While I wouldn't vote for that law, seems to me that very few in the West would try to deny Muslim countries the right to force women to wear the burqa. We'd justify it by saying it's their own culture and who are we to judge etc etc.
But in that case how can Muslims on one hand impose it on their own people, but say that France doesn't have the right to dictate what they want? It seems to me that either you should be against ALL countries making laws that restrict this stuff, or none.
- bigtrick0
you have hit it on the head, in a twisted way, amicus. in france's case, i would say that people are quite insular - the burqa ban is a way to force muslim women to be more "french" and less "muslim." this is the complete opposite of freedom. it is forced conformity.
- actually, they have the freedom to accept that culture and live there, or to find somewhere else that accepts that culture.Amicus
- so you retract your "Most western societies are based on openness and freedom" bit then eh?bigtrick
- it's now "Western societies - be like us or gtfo," eh? Seems like that's what you're sayingbigtrick
- see belowAmicus
- airey0
and BusterBoy, the KKK comment has just made it clear you're a class-a fucking idiot. fuck me, middle class white boy with insular views. what a novelty online.
- ukit0
^ An Australian that swears, what a novelty.
- Sep0
@bigtrick: It's a freedom thing? Even if that freedom allows extremists to limit the freedom of others?
If wearing a burqa excludes you from normal social interaction, from functioning in society, should that same society stand behind it?
- airey0
actually a retract that, bigtrick you're right.
busterboy, i'll apologise under the assumption you don't know better or you simply wrote from top-of-mind and didn't sell your whole position.
the kkk comment is probably similar to the whole 'worse than hitler / hitler was a (x) also' kind of easy cheap point than many fall back on.
- bigtrick0
i can't believe i'm arguing this shit on the internet. i must be really bored.
- bigtrick0
- and hoodies? shall they ban hoodies?bigtrick
- they should ban that one, at least.benfal99
- They should certainly ban bloody 6 string bassesJamesBoynton
- Amicus0
@mike (neue75_bold)
the retention of individual cultures is a pick and choose retention at best, and come with a multitude of problems.
As an Australian I find it abhorrent that people can move here to avoid persecution, racism, war etc. etc. and yet continue that violence once here.
- scarabin0
let people wear what they want to wear.
muslims don't outlaw striped shirts and cigarettes so the french should shut the fuck up
- lowimpakt0
only 2000 women in the whole of france wear the veil (apart from christian women getting married)
attacking this minority of women via legislation is wrong.
the state should not dictate clothing.
- < exactlyneue75_bold
- source?BusterBoy
- Before you SPEAK. Get your facts. They're over 250,000 muslims in france.FredMcWoozy
- that would make a lot more then 2,000 women. GOSH. SO STUPID.FredMcWoozy
- bigtrick0
- and the phantom of the opera? shall they ban the phantom of the opera?bigtrick
- I with they would!Continuity
- *wishContinuity
- ukit0
I mean let's not dance around the obvious here, no one would care if there were only a handful of burqa-wearing women in France. It's not so much a principled stand as simply a xenophobic reaction against immigrants.
Even when I was there 10 years ago, the number of Muslim immigrants in the city I lived in was huge. I imagine that community has grown quite a bit by now. And the French are quite sensitive about/ protective of their culture.
- Ruffian0
France is not a muslim country, so I would have to say yes - they have the right to ban it.
- banning it makes them an anti-muslim country.bigtrick
- But they have the right. I'm not taking sides here.Ruffian
- They are a Muslim country in the making. In 2030 there will be 25% Muslims, enough to dominate parliament.raf
- +1 Ruffianits_only_me