Ban the Burqa?
- Started
- Last post
- 143 Responses
- ukit0
Religion is an embarrassing relic of the past anyway. All comedians know this
- comedians are some of the most observant people in the world.iCanHasQBN
- lukus_W0
Banning Muslim religious dress in particular is singling out particular members of society.
If the route issue is identification - that issue needs to be addressed. If a law was to be introduced, the law would logically (and fairly) need to provide legislature that addresses that route issue.
- callitropsis0
" trying to control the way another person presents themselves is moral dubious behaviour and is ultimately non-constructive."
isn't that what forcing someone to wear a burqa is doing? controlling the way they present themselves?
this issue is just one giant catch 22
- Gov legistaltion is not the same as cultural norms that create a predisposition to wear a Burqa.lukus_W
- the women don't want to wear that crap. they only say they do, because if they didn't, they'd pay for it.iCanHasQBN
- and i grew up around muslim women. most of my family is muslim.iCanHasQBN
- But it IS the law in many parts of the world, isn't it?ukit
- exactly. illegal NOT to wear it. i can't believe you're actually supporting this, lukus.iCanHasQBN
- i know it may seem as though freedoms are being taken away, but really they are GIVING freedom, in the long run.iCanHasQBN
- ..run.iCanHasQBN
- an anology, it's like you're supporting man's "freedom" to cage his dog for life.iCanHasQBN
- just because you're free to do something, doesn't mean it's harmless.iCanHasQBN
- Provide legislature to allow women the opportunity to not wear a Burqa .. don't make it illegal to wear one.lukus_W
- 'banning' this kind of dress is a swing too far in the opposite direction, imo.lukus_W
- that would never work. the woman would take her burqa off and her husband would beat her to death.iCanHasQBN
- You can't say that for sure. On a couple of levels, what you're proposing is similar to the concepts that led to the 'liberation' of Iraq.lukus_W
- .. 'liberation' of Iraq. It's a slippery slope.lukus_W
- We're really talking about stereotypes here - all a government can do is act dispassionately, and impartially. Anything else is wrong, imo.lukus_W
- Anything else is wrong, imo.lukus_W
- yeah, but the french aren't invading a muslim country and trying to 'liberate' them. they're protecting themselvesiCanHasQBN
- from the ills of religioniCanHasQBN
- i understand protecting freedoms is important, but not when those freedoms are oppressive.iCanHasQBN
- And as far as the husband beating his wife for taking off her burqa, yes i CAN say this for sure. times a million.iCanHasQBN
- The decision by the French is either political or practical. If it's the former, it's a divisive move and possibly xenophobic imo.lukus_W
- No good will come from it -> it will create more (strongly felt) divides throughout French society.lukus_W
- just as religion has done for hundreds of years. yay for superstition.iCanHasQBN
- I think I know what you mean and I think yr motivation is good .. but people can't be forced to do the wrong or right thing. Choice is key.lukus_W
- Choice is key.lukus_W
- not if it's harmful. i have the Choice to murder someone today. But society has deemed this choice harmfuliCanHasQBN
- ..and illegal.iCanHasQBN
- That comparison is completely illogical. No one dies if a woman chooses to wear a Burqa.lukus_W
- You need to accept that some women will freely choose to dress in this way.lukus_W
- The oppression of women is harmful. this is not their choice anyway, they're being forced.iCanHasQBN
- Re: 'forced to do the wrong or right thing', I was referring to imposing a world-view on a person via legislation.lukus_W
- as said, it's a catch 22. islam imposes their views on persons person via legislation. need to leave the office, bye.iCanHasQBN
- You can't assume it's 'not their choice' -> some women (perhaps even the majority) will choose to dress in this way.lukus_W
- Okay, bye -> but Islam is no worse than Christianity imo.lukus_W
- the vast majority do not want to. i come from arabic culture, i know how those men control every move and action of their wives.iCanHasQBN
- wives. and i'm not here to defend christianity. i'm against all forms of archaic practices and ways of thinking.iCanHasQBN
- ok... byeiCanHasQBN
- lukus_W0
They shouldn't be banned. Freedom is important... trying to control the way another person presents themselves is moral dubious behaviour and is ultimately non-constructive.
Education & discussion are the only routes to lasting change. It might sound overly PC and right-on, but it's the truth.
- what the fuck is non-constructive?
your such a moral fag dudespraycanII
- what the fuck is non-constructive?
- callitropsis0
"There is evidence that this type of dress was worn by some Arab and Persian women long before Islam."
as quoted from Wikipedia
- callitropsis0
Are burqas part of the Muslim religion (mentioned in the Koran) or are they just a cultural practices? Does anyone know?
- spraycanII0
Ban clothes. simple.
- Ramanisky20
Well there you have it ... France did it
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/eu…and right away the Eiffel Tower is evacuated
- arminwerk0
Yeah, while they're at it, they should ban piercing in the face, tatoos in the facem mustaches and everything else people choose to wear in or on the face. C'mon where did democraty go???
- sqloud0
But, hey, c'mon guys. In France we have more important problems to deal with. What about the national soccer team. At least that's what the governement is "focusing" on.
Thanks for arguing for us.
- Projectile0
exador1.. so what you are saying is that these people want to wear them? sure, they do.. you make a good point.
But whether they do it because their family/community will kill them, or because they just want to fit in more at school, it's a complication they wouldn't have to deal with if/when this law is passed.
- ukit0
It's a reaction at the panic they feel of "losing" their culture in the face of immigration.
- WrappedInBooks0
^ I think it could be drawn that freedom of religion (freedom from persecution) should be extend to those who don't want to wear the face or body covering. What the French government (and most of Europe) are doing is a heavy handed attempt at the preservation of (what they believe to be) civil rights.
- exador10
a lot of posturing and talk and bluster here, but I'll just toss in a few things i happen to know for a 'fact' as well....
my wife is a highschool teacher here....at her school there are a lot of kids from Pakistan, afghanistan, india, you name it....
now, when they get new girl students in from these countries, say fr'instance, pakistan, many of them do not, in fact, where the hijab or anything else....but....
after being here for a little while they do.
now...let me tell ya why.....
some of the imams and such around here these days can be a bit hardcore about this stuff....in turn, the local kids that have been here awhile pressure the newcomers into wearing it....
most of them do in order to either 'fit in' or so that they don't run afoul of any local preachers etc.....
that's just one teachers observation....and she's seen that happen quite a bit over the past few years....also, there have been (in the past few years) quite a few 'honor' killings....girls that didn't want to wear this stuff and thought they could get away with not doing so being killed by their families for 'dishonoring' them...
there's a case going on here right now (or just ended)....poor kid got killed by her dad and older brother because she didn't want to wear the hijab...
anyhow, any way you slice it, it's very sad....
i'm all for people wearing what they want....you want to wear a sheet over your body, go for it...
you want to walk around with your head covered?...go nuts....however...choices are choices....
and a lot of folks choose NOT to like that sort of thing, and will choose NOT to want to either work with you, be around you, or get along with you...
there's always been a heard mentality with people...its just the way things are...
and when confronted with something like this that's outside the 'norm' (girls and women covering up to this degree) people tend to get antsy about it....it makes them feel awkward.
and when folks feel awkward, they lash out.if it was 100% understood and accepted that all these women and girls were doing it 100% because they wanted to, i think that would go a long way to making things acceptable to atleast most reasonable people...
but that is not the case is it?
most folks think (and there's a reason for it) that these women and girls are NOT 100% into this, in and of their own choice etc.....
and since there's that doubt, there is a feeling that these girls (or atleast some) are being forced to do it..
which makes folks a little bit angry about it.....
which leads to misunderstandings about culture, which leads to xenophobia, etc...
- sigg0
There are bigger issues than wasting time banning something that less than 10% of a small minority wear.
(pulling the 10% from the previous page)
If the cops need to see your face, you're getting a drivers license, or your entering a place of business and you won't take it off then BAM, taser time. Then the videos get posted to YouTube, then the YouTube videos get posted in some "fucking cops" thread, people go ape shit over cops and BAM, the circle of life.
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vX07j9SDFcc&rel=0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vX07j9SDFcc&rel=0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
- set0
Hombre_Lobo
We could have all of that without the seperation, fear and 'taking power from the peopleness' that religion causes.
You don't need religion to have moral code and community.
- my sentiments exactly :)
On my wall i have a a lovely almost bible-esque piece of literature outlining good morals to live by.Hombre_Lobo - to live by. No need for religion in my life.
Thanks set :)Hombre_Lobo
- my sentiments exactly :)
- PIZZA0
I'd rather see a ban on men wearing fucking flip flops to work. You're not on the fucking beach now mate.
- I'm with this.DrBombay
- fuck that! I don't, but so what if I do? unless it's a client facing environment, who cares?Projectile
- It's 92 and humid out. What, do I work in a bank now? Suck my pedicured toes bitches.kona
- i'm with konan.iCanHasQBN
- Hombre_Lobo0
before i get attacked by close minded, defensive bumbaclarts (yeh thats right, bumbaclarts!!) -
Religion is fantastic for teaching a moral code to live by, no doubt about it. Its great for creating communities which makes people feel safe. But its the history of bloodshed and the minority of todays extreme religiousness that grinds my gears.
If it makes you 1% more happy, good for you, enjoy it! :)
- and the ignorance of science, that REALLY grinds my gears.Hombre_Lobo
- " Its great for creating communities which makes people feel safe" good onejaylarson
- Hombre_Lobo0
Im not a fan of religion. Causes too many problems.
- not strictly true, im a fan of Buddhism.Hombre_Lobo
- it's not really a religion thoughset
- Projectile0
I know:
Ban the French culture that bans Muslim people from banning women from showing their faces.