Ban the Burqa?
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- airey0
christians in china used to be killed. due to their vilification they were ofter granted entry into countries like the usa. wordwide people frowned down their noses at the situation where a person wearing a cross around their neck getting 20 years in prison. at the very least being told you couldn't wear a cross was considered heinous civil rights abuse. although it was china so nobody was surprised.
america was founded by people escaping persecution for their beliefs. and they wore fucking stupid hats and the women had to wear bonnets and dresses. gingham probably. they didn't give much of a fuck about the locals culture, although they did add smallpox infused blankets into the mix so maybe that's still held on to?
the niqab, or burqa or hijab aren't attacking other countries cultures. these people aren't secluding themselves away in compounds, not learning the local language and plotting our downfall. they are simply living here with different views and socio-religious expressions.
it's worth discussing and if the majority feels that seeing someones face is paramount then so be it.
but are our so-called 'cultural' beliefs actually that important to us? all of them? really? what designates a places culture evolves. it takes bits in and takes bits out. shit, around 12% of australians actually go to church yet we call ourselves a christian nation but only because that's the version of a 'creator' we were taught and kinda believe in but not really. yet our not-really-believed belief is enough to get the shits with someone else who ears something they do believe in.
the main issue i feel with this is that so much of it is based on opinion and not fact.
it's oppressing women - really? do they feel that way? if they do then shit, let's stop it but shouldn't it come from their mouths? i think arranged marriage is nuts and oppressive yet that's still common practice in some cultures. it's not for me to say as it's got nothing to do with me. it's a tad arrogant to measure the world by your own standards with everything. especially a persons religion. unless it's scientology in which case fuck 'em.
referencing taliban insanity when talking about the muslim religion is completely nuts. and ignorant. find the most hardline right-wing baptist kkk 'christian' and make him more myopic and small minded and you come slightly close to what the taliban are in relation to the muslim faith. they are fucking insane to the point that even moderate muslims are now calling for them to be killed thanks to the bombing the other week.
all in all though i like that we discuss shit here.
- cannonball19780
Didn't they just ban minarets? That's like banning church bells.
- in italy they still won't allow them when there are 3 churches bell located less than a km from my house and like 15 church in total in this towngeorgesIII
- 15 churches in total in this towngeorgesIII
- georgesIII0
^
You perfectly summed up what I was going to write Airey,
This whole ban the burka thing has no real basis in reality but is based of fear,
the fear that make you win votes.
- airey0
well if you're banning those godforsaken bells i'll lend a hand. i'm tired of being woken up early after a late saturday night sacrificing virgins in pentagrams and such.
- no fuck shit,
at least they stop at 11 then start again at 6'15georgesIII
- no fuck shit,
- drgz0
Muslim women do not choose to cover themselves by own will (no healthy, self-respecting woman would)
In Burqa-wearing muslim communities women decide nothing
It's an ancient religious rudiment forced on people by Imams
- Did you poll a cross-section of muslim women for this or were you just told this and assumed it sounded righteouscannonball1978
- Any leader of a mosque or any person in Islamic leadership position will tell you that directlydrgz
- Who btw are all mendrgz
- yeah, but what did the women you asked say?airey
- Is exactly my point: they have no say on thisdrgz
- georgesIII0
- upi can't see her face, because I can, and she's having second thoughts. :)Amicus
- cannonball19780
How about we even pull this back further and realize how simple minded it is perpetuating the discourse that lumps terrorists into being only muslim.
There are all kinds of terrorists. National Socialist Terrorists, Eco Terrorists, Narco Terrorists etc.
Whenever I hear arguments like this it reeks of people trying to defend their right to be suspicious and hateful of a group. Yes. You have that right. You also have the right to bear arms. Do you really want to live in that mindset your whole life though?
For the record I'm half-Afghan.
- but canon, they are brown,
why don't you get it,
repeat after me, all brow peeps are terroristgeorgesIII - Halfghan!neue75_bold
- but canon, they are brown,
- ukit0
Is the law banning headscarves or just the part covering the face? If it's the second one, these examples kind of disprove your point georges.
- georgesIII0
I'm saying this law is goddam hypocrital,
that's what I'm saying,Sarkozi is losing votes as hell and decided to ride the extreme right band wagon because of it,
If you can still go on and not realize that they only reason we're even hearing about it now, is that failing politician want to use the publics fear of islamofascist to gain more votes, then you must be living in a hole somewhere in USA (no offense of course)
muslim/catholic/jew/orthodox women have been wearing different types of headscarf for decades (if not centuries) now,
nobody cared until the big bad brow terrorist fear was instilled into us.
- georgesIII0
and they are wearing it for their personal religious faith,
why should we only target the muslim faith while ignoring the dozen other faith were women wear head scarfs,oooh I forgot, they're supposed to be terrorist, right?
- ukit0
I agree - but don't you think it's hypocritical to go after France and not other countries that restrict peoples' freedom - Islamic countries in many cases being some of the worst.
When you bring this up, people will say, well, it's Saudi Arabia or Iran's culture to treat people this way, and I'm largely sympathetic to that. But it seems inconsistent to say that they can impose their culture on the society and France can't - regardless of the motivation.
- they don't call themselves a coalition of shining white hatted cowboys saving the world though do they.airey
- The only reason you even cite iran is because, the media have been portraying them as the evilest society in the worldgeorgesIII
- the west proffers some high moral ideal and yet here we are failing it.airey
- yet most of the "arabs" that bomb your twin towers are from saudi arabia but it is still your biggest oil partner theregeorgesIII
- you see the hypocrisy?georgesIII
- No, and you avoided the question, because there are restrictions on peoples' lives in those societies.ukit
- airey0
widen it further. i'm white and a kiwi. i live in australia. once my accent changed people stopped making fun of me. it's my fucking right to be vilified for being an immigrant yet because i look the same i'm ignored. treated equal. fuckers.
- Well, if it makes you feel better, I never would have guessed you were a kiwiukit