Is Flash dead?
- Started
- Last post
- 98 Responses
- Boz0
I think the web itself is dead as we know it..
We are in a full blown transition to application model on mobile devices, handhelds, TVs, phones, tablets etc..
I think it's only natural.. as web 2.0 was maturing, so did business models.. and more and more we saw startups creating services/platforms with API hooks. This is Web 3.0.
I was and am involved with several startups and this is how things are morphing now..everyone is doing this model.. it's the next step.
Most sites don't have the destination model anymore in terms of web site.. they do have website still, but not for the same necessity as before, less and less people want to get people to visit their sites. It's all about APIs.. so Netflix, Hulu and all others are now using devices and your TV and your consoles to hook into the those websites you were using your computer to visit.
Even now, you see that our desktop computers won't be really using browsers anymore but will use online stores such as OSX App Store, or Intel's AppUp, or Adobe's InMarket etc where you will be running applications the same way you run them on your home/portable devices.
We have entered a new generation where the web will hold data, API platforms and so on and as I said, apps will be the ones acting as front end hooking into the cloud.
This brings us to Flash.. Flash as a plugin probably won't be as important as it was up to this point.. this is why for some time now we have seen Adobe and Microsoft shift Flash and Silverlight to development platforms that run on desktops/web/mobile devices etc.. That's why they created Open Screen Project a few years ago.. This is why we have AIR..
AIR is in fact the future of Flash. As the devices become more powerful (our mobile phones using dual or even quad core ARM and Intel processors ) we will see more and more immersive apps running through AIR, Silverlight etc..
If you look at what Adobe showcased on MAX 2010, it's all geared towards what I'm mentioning here.. you will be building apps with Actionscript and Flash/AIR runtimes for game consoles, mobile phones, tablets, TVs etc.. and hooking into APIs like YouTube, Netflix, Amazon etc etc..
So to wrap it up.. Flash as a plugin will eventually die.. that was pretty much inevitable, but Flash as a platform will continue thriving..
HTML5 is now at the point where it will probably do a good enough job for simplest thing and news sites and blogs and stuff like that that doesn't have a spot as an app or API on these devices.. and in that Flash really doesn't have a place.. there's no need for it.
My 2 cents.
- a splendid 2c, probably worth more.mikotondria3
- That was a series of nicely made points. Srsly thxstoplying
- << awesome.IRNlun6
- Nice! Good info. Worth like 5¢.Mr_Right
- Well done sir.stewdio
- ukit0
The days of selling all-Flash sites to medium sized businesses are gone I think. On the other hand its still the best option a lot of times for high-end marketing sites or games.
Use the Flash. Don't let it use you.
- nb1
You’re insane if you think there weren’t behind-the-scenes meetings for many many months where Jobs tried to strong arm Adobe into investing their own resources into making Flash that could work on iPhone. Or, to make something that would produce Flash-like content but not kill the iPhone experience and battery life.
You think Apple just walked out with the iphone one day and was like “ok here’s our new product, hope y’all hate Flash with us now, our company depends on it!”
Have you even worked for a company before.
- Apple in the end bet that people would prefer the iPhone to Flash and they were right. Nobody cares about Flash except the people who worked in itnb
- Maybe all that happened. Doesn't change things. Jobs is still a 'genius' ok? Of a sortdkoblesky
- Jobs is 100% the exec who is like “why are we spending Apple money to help make Adobe successful? Fuck Adobe. We work at Apple.”nb
- I work for one of the largest companies on the planet....ok?dkoblesky
- And that’s completely what he’s supposed to do as the leader of his company.nb
- this is why I called him a 'marketing genius'
Adobe is who failed heredkoblesky - Amazing how personal people get about global conglomeratedkoblesky
- Um, yeah I agree with you. The letter and all that was a way to control the conversation when Apple started to lose control of the narrative.nb
- What nb said is correct. iPhones (mobile devices in general) beats Flash. But this forum cares because many of use worked with Flash for 10 yearsdkoblesky
- Then why did flash not flourish on android which had the majority market share globally for many years before and after iOS???monospaced
- Simply put, if flash was gonna live on mobile it failed to do so on the platform it was allowed on. And adobe shit the bed. They failed.monospaced
- iPhone had a slim market share for years. It was a joke at first. Why blame the underdog for a shitty flash not working on it? Pshhhhmonospaced
- Nairn0
19th October, 2020 - the day I finally uninstalled Flash after being prompted to by Adobe themselves.
Goodbye.
- PonyBoy3
lol... nice bump
I just scrolled back through this thread and the ignorance of where things were moving was high w/some us (put me at the top of the list)... I'm glad listened to some of you and refocused on the existing browser tech along w/a focus on a mobile...
...it was not easy to let go of Flash.
- SoulFly0
Do not waste your energy in HTML5, it will never, mark my words, never take off.
I went through this already back in 2005. My company made me learn XSL, and then XSLT, which was supposed to be the "big next thing" it was the biggest waste of time.
If I'm not mistaken this HTML5 doesn't even yet work properly in all browsers? is that correct?- are u kidding me? i think you are confusing the scope of your job vs building web applications in generalsherm
- I think he's got a pointintVal
- XSLT/XSL were fucking stupid over complicated crap thoughPIZZA
- you guys went the wrong way. XHTML was crap.jetSkii
- gaddammit I'm ready to put some boxing gloves on.sherm
- utopian0
Windows 10 update removes Flash and prevents it from being reinstalled
- That was a time...the flash years. Personally I am glad it is dead. Too much power in one program.dkoblesky
- Goodbye. Thanks to Flash I was able to put food in my stomach and roof over my head.shapesalad
- ^OBBTKN
- grafician0
^pretty sure Flash was dead when you needed to learn Actionscript to do anything good with it...
Don't blame Steve, blame fucking Adobe for buying Macromedia to kill the competition and in the process ruin the web.
Blame also the shitty advertising industry, although many earned a lot of bread doing flash banners and stuff...
- still remember getting $250 per flash banner back in the days...grafician
- Nobody ever mentions that for years all those banners didn't allow using AS3 because their tracking was AS2-based.evilpeacock
- not to mention the insane optimisations like "make it under 200kb" while today a simple blog loads 10MB of jsgrafician
- I had to spend days to optimise assets, JPG 60-75% tops if you wanted anything decent looking while still small filesize, while today ppl upload 10MB directlygrafician
- idk but I think Flash was an amazing medium for design and web art, didn't deserved to be squashed by these big corporations...grafician
- People don’t use 10MB of JS in a banner adnb
- lol nb have you opened any website on mobile recentlygrafician
- PIZZA0
"AIR is in fact the future of Flash. As the devices become more powerful (our mobile phones using dual or even quad core ARM and Intel processors ) we will see more and more immersive apps running through AIR, Silverlight etc.."
Why waste the extra power on clunky shit that native apps already outpace
- georgesIII0
bump?
- I wanna see some bloodgeorgesIII
- *stabs georges in the legukit
- shows an old tamponjetSkii
- I'm invisible on the net,
you bullet woud only ricochet on my third leggeorgesIII
- fyoucher10
Two big reasons it's not going to die:
1. Flash banner ads. Advertising makes too much money. A lot of sites depend entirely on advertising. I see Flash to 'html5' conversion tools helping the process work with iOS devices but in the end I see Apple allowing Flash player on (because Adobe finally fixes it), or because too many mobile phone competitors have a step up. Let's face it, the hardware is going to get plenty fast soon enough to where we aren't even worrying about performance. I believe the hardware will improve much faster than the time it would take for a new technology to become ubiquitous.2. HTML video is very limited. You can't cue things, add code, make it interactive, shit like that. Why do you think YouTube is sticking with Flash? Video is a massive portion of the future web, especially when it comes to your TV.
Other notes:
AIR isn't the future of Flash but just another way for Flash to reach your device. It's just another great reason to stick with using it and selling it to clients. It's versatile and will be able to be repurposed through all of the different platforms out there.- no alpha channel support either
.. at least i dont believe sodeathboy - and the GUI is a big help. adobe will play both audiences, JS gui AS gui combination futuredeathboy
- GUI may not be the only reason but its gotta be the largest for AS to trump JS before. Mobile is only difference nowdeathboy
- difference now. The current lask of suppor twill push drive mor js stuff, but will it be cost effective?deathboy
- Yeah, essentially Flash is better at multimedia, HTML is better at data.fyoucher1
- Are you crazy? HTML video has a powerful API.jetSkii
- Sorry but that's far from advanced. No alpha channel means square viewing, no integration w/ other media.fyoucher1
- no alpha channel support either
- ukit0
And I don't think cost is the reason Flash failed as the dominant medium on the "regular" web. If all-Flash sites were a better payoff for businesses they would obviously pay the slightly higher cost upfront. It's because web standards are simply a much better solution in terms of usability, SEO, and other basic factors.
I don't think you'll ever see big sites like CNN or whatever built in Flash. The only company that really tried this was F-I and they failed spectacularly at it.
- flash has always been an animation based resource right? The stuff javascript sucked at without a GUIdeathboy
- actionscript is just evolved javascript with more options and interface.deathboy
- What I meant, agencies can sell sites cheaper to produce for the same money now.raf
- Not that they're cheating clients. Their time costs the same, their devs are cheaper than Flash devs used to be.raf
- Either way...I don't think that's the reason. Companies will ultimately demand the better option, agencies can't impose it on them.ukit
- I'm not saying they're imposing it, only enjoying the trend.raf
- zaq1
"How I still use Flash in 2022"
- dkoblesky2
yes
- yuekit0
I remember when AS3 launched Adobe was making a serious push for it to be used for what they called rich applications. In other words Flash would not just be for banner ads and marketing sites, it would be the the underlying technology for portals and other large-scale data-driven web apps. I think they envisioned it taking over a significant portion of the web eventually. Talk about getting ahead of yourself!
Flash came close to being a serious player. At the same time there were always issues with Flash taking on such a role...even if he had ulterior motive Jobs wasn't making things up when he listed its shortcomings.
- SteveJobs0
I remember when I'd get in heated debates with other QBN'ers on here back in the day.
Boy those were the days!
Idk, to me it was exciting times for many of us. It was a huge creative outlet that seemingly had no boundaries in terms of what could be achieved. There was an entire community showing off visually interesting interactive pieces that inspired others. And some people actually made a living on the technology. It really felt like 'the future', as much as anything could in those days.
I won't defend it beyond that. It had it's faults. It was hated by many who felt forced to learn it to stay competitive in their jobs, and ultimately, wielded by far too many who didn't really understand it, know how to use it correctly, and more importantly, *when* to use it. Imo, it's those reasons that made its fate inevitable. (Oh, and Steve Jobs <takes a bow>)
- Agree. It was an explosion of creativity. I remember flash sites that were so beautiful and so weird....dkoblesky
- It was exciting for US, but let's not get myopic here. Mobile and social media has genuinely changed the world over the past decade.yuekit
- That is the real revolution, not some artsy portfolio site. Billions of people in the developing world gaining access to knowledge and communication.yuekit
- utopian0
Adobe Flash just took another step towards death, thanks to Google.
- err1
Yes thats what Im talking about!
"Chrome will will strongly favor HTML5 ads and begin pausing most Flash ads by default starting Tuesday. That's today!"The verge.com's homepage has a big ass microsoft flash ad on their homepage.
- Projectile0
I just spent a few hours today creating animated banners in flash. Output as HTML5, job done.
I'm glad I spent all my efforts learning the timeline interface and ignoring action script!!