Politics
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- zenmasterfoo0
nattering naybobs of negativism...wtf.
dittering dickwad of democracy....
- Ramanisky20
WASHINGTON — The Secret Service has determined that a juvenile was behind the online survey that asked whether people thought President Barack Obama should be assassinated, an agency spokesman said Thursday.
No criminal charges will be filed against the juvenile or the juvenile's parents, spokesman Edwin Donovan said. Donovan would not identify the names of the child or parents or say where they are from....Really?
- TheBlueOne0
Nike announces it will depart from the board of the US Chamber of Commerce over the Chambers stance on Climate Change policy.
- Al Gore's movie, if named honestly, would read 'A Convenient Lie'bliznutty
- ANARCHY IN COLORADO!!!!!!!!DrBombay
- What does Al Gore have to do with Nike making this move?DrBombay
- becuase gores movie got a lot of people who want to feel good by into his greenwash making him rich********
- its like a green religion. follow the money. if a scientist says soemthign is a fallacy to political agenda they lose funding********
- funding. sure change is happening but its pretty hard to tell why. political correct theories get plenty of funding********
- Still has nothing to do with Al Gore. He didn't invent climate change. Polluting less is a good thing, deal with it.DrBombay
- ukit0
- ********0
^^^
If Nike was true to their word, and practiced proper environmental stewardship, they would be OUT OF FUCKING BUSINESS, lickety fucking split!!!A bunch of fucking earth destroying hypocrites Nike is. Fucking sweatshop, earth polluting fucktards.
- < Earth polluting I say. And I'll say it one more fucking time. NIKE POLLUTES GOD DAMN IT!!!********
- < Earth polluting I say. And I'll say it one more fucking time. NIKE POLLUTES GOD DAMN IT!!!
- ukit0
So there was actually a positive development today in the health care negotiations. Those of you who are following this know that one version of the health care bill is being written right now in the Senate Finance Committee, which is basically the most conservative (and corrupt) committee when it comes to health care.
Essentially it's made up of a bunch of Republicans who aren't gonna vote for anything, and run by Max Baucus, a Democrat who has taken literally thousands of dollars a day from the health care industry. Two of the Senators introduced bills with a public plan earlier this week, and they both got shot down by pretty wide margins.
But today, Maria Cantwell introduced an amendment which would add to the bill a scaled down public option plan - and it passed. It's basically a plan that offers PO to a narrow window of people within a certain income group above those that qualify for Medicaid.
So now the most conservative committee in either the House or the Senate has at least a scaled back form of the PO in its bill. Not a bad place to start negotiations between the different committees.
- curious how it would be funded. funny u healthcare look the other way at the failing other social medical programs********
- and refuse to look at the reasons why. u are similar to religious nuts in your belief healthcare vs a god********
- u take strength in your brethren of similiar beliefs. and in your "stolen concept" fallacies********
- my biggest beef is that u rats on a sinking ship demand that everyone go down with it together********
- someone wants to break free and u entrap them to drown with you. whats up with that********
- fools in the current gov are not smart enough as a majority to do any good. remove the reg's and u will see more betterness********
- more betterness? Learn English...DrBombay
- more betterness is a joke. its a nufan album i dug....********
- curious how it would be funded. funny u healthcare look the other way at the failing other social medical programs
- ********0
Ive picked the minds of many firm "believers" in healthcare and whenever they are encountered with a big hole in their belief they turn into sniveling little kids, instead of trying to find a way around the hole or a possible solution (if one may exist...the unconcious realization may cause the sniveling involuntary to maintain some sort of positive psyche, genetic or conditioned, not entirely sure) they turn into children who have had their toy taken away by a parent and continue to stomp their feet and cry i want my toy i want my toy, my friend has their toy and i want my toy. They take no consideration of how their friend has maintained their toy or what they have given for it, or even if they earned it and it wasnt given purely by a guilt ridden father for fucking the mail lady in order to get his wife to suck his warted dick again. HA! (im proud of that description in how it really sums up politics). All they have is a desire for what they want. Intellectual adults are suppose to be able to determine what is desireable in a reasonable fashion. The desire to own a lambo will get a guy to finance it and enjoy it, enjoy it until the bill comes in and he finds out its unaffordable and he has sacrificed the livelihood of his entire family. In the end he loses both the lambo and his entire family. So quit focusing on your desire for healthcare and focus on the feasibility and if it means your neighbor has to cover your portion, its non feasible, and if u point at someone else thats a stolen concept and doesnt = feasible. But he has a lambo i deserve one too... why? Especially when time plays a part. Just like the lambo is feasible until the bill comes. And please grow up and dont declare u need more lambos when u cant afford the current ones. If you want more figure out how to pay for the first one.
Healthcare can be more affordable and provided to many more people but to do that u cant ignore the reasons or the fact that to some people its just out of reach. A retard will never find a job that pays him enough to afford a lambo. Bummer, but thats life. If you can't solve the current problems using the current methods then applying those on a larger scale wont help. New ones are needed and those lie in the removal of such governmental distortions (which are are to say the false hand of a god, which will eventually have to face the reality that its false) that create the conditions.
If you so choose to deny reality i'll laugh my ass off if im still around when it bites u on the ass. And its my responsibility to do damage control, so what effects u is minimal to me. To me this may just be a generational mistake that may be necessary to reach a higher plane of thought, or it may simply be devolution in the bigger scheme to naturally control a species unfit to survive. Regardless im almost nothing .00000000>infinite 1 in the large scheme and i know im going to die. So i try not to suffer fools, but it must be my human nature to try to help those i see, probably a genetic survival instinct and a selfish goal of living as well as possible. But anyways you do what u want and ignore whatever consequences of such actions, but the piper will see u in a bit to collect. Hell u may even outlive the piper but he will collect from your children or children's children (not a scare tactic just captain wow u reap what u sow thing) And i'll do whatever i need to do. After all there is no such thing as a social being, only an individual and individual actions.
That's my soap box for now. time to watch tv.
- It is hard to take you seriously when you write ten run-on sentences.DrBombay
- Your Lambo metaphor is a joke. That's a luxury item and not a life necessity.Josev
- healthcare/lambo are consumer goods/services. necessity is a value. a healthy person without a car would value a lambo as more of a necessity.********
- value a lambo as more of a necessity. a individual necessity. if i declared i have a need for something u have can i take it from you?********
- i take it form you? necessity is not a claim you use to declare what u want.********
- ukit0
deathkid - the difference is that my statement are based on facts, yours are based on ideology.
I asked this before, and never heard an answer. Show me an example of a country that has a MORE libertarian, deregulated health care industry than the U.S., that gets a better outcome. Better outcome means controlling costs, people live longer. There isn't one.
You act like you know something about business and free markets. No business is going to adopt a program or strategy based on someone's abstract theory that flies in the face of actual evidence.
- evidence of cost effectiveness. and are system is super deregulated. i cant determine the regulation discrepancies********
- would are cost effectiveness be better then other with deregulation? likely highly. will one thign change it. doubt it.********
- i need specific reports too that u cite to see the truth in such longer lives. and look at causes of death vs other reports********
- my theories are flying in the face of evidence either they are based around current evidence and realities. im not infalliable so if u have specific different evidence i can apply them and work them out********
- infallible. i could be wrong but current evidence supports my theory. and not your abstract stolen concept statistics, which i can assume ive read********
- probably have read. but if u have some real data give it up. and ill analyze and question it.********
- by the way if u'd liek to state where my theory fails please do so, and then we can have a real conversation********
- just because it doesnt fit your desires doesnt mean its wrong.********
- and please by what standard can i show u a more deregulated health care industry than the US.********
- somalia is less deregulated. but isnt a comparison at all as a whole. in fact its ahrd to compare to total seperate things********
- things. u seem smart enough to know that. so im not be insulting but please dont blanket shit and we can look at the real issues********
- the real issues. how bout this one issue. the current model of public care is a failure********
- wouldnt fixing the current problems then focusing on making them larger be the smart move********
- and to your part of facts and my ideology, please show me your facts and ill show u the fallacies u refuse to see********
- but i cant stress dealing with an angry child. if u act in a non rational manner nothing will be achieved********
- rationality cant co-exist with irrationality. so if u choose to base your ideas on healthcare is absolute then i can tell u, u wont likely wont see the truth********
- The fact that you can't answer such a simple question in 14 notes speaks for itself.ukit
- wont likely see the truth, u have already been corrupted by your desires********
- Sorry, 17 notes, I stand corrected ; - )ukit
- i answered it by saying your conditions are irrational. and gave u the example of somalia********
- is somalia = to usa... nope but by your conditions the answer stands********
- and still u have no explanation why my so called ideology fails, that also make sit hard to have a conversation********
- why does the rain fall? because i said so. i say gravity and such thing u say your wrong i said so.********
- how can i possibly have a rational conversation. id like u to not fit into my crying kid box but things are what they are********
- actually theres the fact to that name a country that practices my ideals, or at least for a period of time to see if it worked.********
- worked. for soem reason i think they work fine and for that fact was never mentioned. look at what principles were********
- in place before such increase. aq general comaprison can be said for college education costs before gov got involved********
- evidence of cost effectiveness. and are system is super deregulated. i cant determine the regulation discrepancies
- ********0
so please ukit please explain why my ideology is wrong so i have something specific to direct. either that or name specifically why u think such things will work and ill show u what is wrong. i understand these types of forums make it hard for such things, but please try and ill do my best too.
- but then again u posted above about why republicans believe opening borders for insurance was lame...********
- so it may be impossible. especially sinc eu didnt state your proposed outcome vs evidence of auto insurance********
- but then again u posted above about why republicans believe opening borders for insurance was lame...
- ukit0
? I just asked you to name an example of a country that has a more deregulated medical industry, that gets better outcomes than we do. I don't think Somalia is...uh...gonna qualify. Point taken that they are more deregulated but that's because it's a wartorn country without a functioning society where thousands of people strave to death every day.
Maybe you are just joking around with all of this...fair enough...and nice job staying in character I guess. In the real world people actually do care about this issue, maybe when you have a close family member die from a terminal disease you'll realize it's not all just a hilarious subject to joke about.
- somalia fits your criteria. it is your job to narrow it down********
- proper identification is needed tosolve such problems. i cant equate a usa scenario when there isnt an exact one********
- i can only fit your criteria. more focus and u will get less broad answers********
- i can only fit your criteria. more focus and u will get less broad answers********
- and still m,y question about not fixing the current problems. the focusing of the probelms on your neighbors shoulders and such still go unquestioned********
- shit and focus on the current problems with the methods in place********
- and death is funny only when u come to terms with reality that everyone is gonna die********
- for funny or non funny reasons. when u can except that u may have a more clear head********
- and if a close family memebr where to die from a terminal illness, id tell tell the person u can drown with the ship but not me or my kids********
- me or my kids, and id expect the person memebr to understand, bc if they didnt id call them a cancer********
- id forgive them a bit since fear of death draws up certain emotions, but if explained and they still fear they have to be cut offlike a tumor********
- cut off like a tumor********
- I see...well, fair enough. Perhaps you have a point.ukit
- somalia fits your criteria. it is your job to narrow it down
- ********0
Deathboy rules! Ukit sucks!
- DrBombay0
Many economic powerhouses in the World except for the US have better healthcare and everyone is covered. Why does it work there but can't work here? Serious answers only.
- The reason is that the Insurance industry doesn't want one, even the not-for-profit insurers are bloated bureaucracies.Mimio
- Mimio, you weren't supposed to answer... ;)DrBombay
- the swiss has one of sorts but are far more productive and smarter with a higher median income.********
- less gov overhead to afford practices with its use of tax dollars.********
- What about Japan?DrBombay
- lets not forget the great nation of cuba too if we want general comparisons of healthcare ='s good********
- 140 million people. Roughly half the pop of the USA.DrBombay
- Tell me why it can't work... You still haven't been able to.DrBombay
- has the universal healthcare plan of any country curbed the rise of medical costs?********
- You know nothing about the Japanese system, but insist on arguing... Obviously.DrBombay
- ive told u plenty of times. why dont u try to explain how it will work. instead of pointing at some random country********
- Why don't you go learn about what I am talking about before arguing against it. You are the uninformed one.DrBombay
- Go read, then come back and tell me why a similar system wouldn't work...DrBombay
- http://okinawada.lef… just think about the demand for healthcare tripling in the next 25 yrs....********
- Did you google "downside to japanese healthcare" and then post a link?DrBombay
- not one person for healthcare has tried to explain the how in the gov. jsut busy with the act of trying to pass soemthing********
- i googled. was i not aloud to look for the counter side of your japanese healthcare is good becuase i say so argument********
- Why do I waste my time?DrBombay
- I hope you die of a horrible disease and are bankrupt and can't afford care. You fucking deserve it.DrBombay
- You honestly deserve the worst end of the system you don't want to change.DrBombay
- oh see. i look for the problems. like a christian who looks for proof of god is ostracized********
- u really only desire it to work and wont even look at any argument agaisnt it********
- Japan works better. The current US system doesn't. Case fucking closed.DrBombay
- and yet is japans system self sustaining. will it continue to work in ten years. im sure fdr used that same stolen concept to promote his causes********
- TheBlueOne0
"New ones are needed and those lie in the removal of such governmental distortions (which are are to say the false hand of a god, which will eventually have to face the reality that its false) that create the conditions."
You really don't have a complete picture do you? Just like your belief (and I use that word purposefully) in a "free market" you somehow believe in a world where governments or other coalitions of the powerful don't "distort" the landscape. It's a utopian dream.
It's like saying "You know, except for the distortions of gravity by large mass objects, my theory of the universe would work perfectly. So you see, we have to eliminate all this distorting matter..."
The social space will always be distorted, or rather shaped, by the balance of powerful interests within it. In your ideological commitment to limit effective, democratic republican government, you eliminate the one part, historically fought for over millenia, that gives the little guy a fair shake and a say in the proceedings. All governments are not equal, so to just say "less government" is really, in essence meaningless. I would like LESS government dictated by oligarchies, powerful economic interests, warlords and despots. I would like MORE government by transparent, accountable, elected institutions. The better we can make the latter and more we can eliminate the influence of the former the better.
I don't understand why so many of those on the right side of the scale fail to see that their ideology leads to atomization of individuals who stand zero chance against the colluding efforts (i.e. "distortions") of vested economic interests. Your conception of freedom works great if your a 18th century agrarian, the "free market" being the collection of you and your local farmers and the dry goods proprietor, with the only external threat you have to worry about being a wayward bear or pack of wolves.
Furthermore, you guys ALWAYS make the exception about "well, the government should provide the military". Uh-huh. Even the Founders agreed without exception the one most vile distortion of public civic order was a standing army and the demands it places, economic and politically, on civil society. Yet this is the one thing your side INSISTS government should do.
Remove the plank from your own eye.
- actually your anecdote is using natural factors with natural factors. gov distortion is in no way natural********
- explain how the distortions of government by securing school loans made the education system better with skyrocketing costs********
- and by the way i have no side, u take a side u will get all the evils that go with it.********
- oh and your less gov statement is an impossibility with the size of gov and controls in place********
- you have no side? WTF are you talking about? You are against a side. That makes you on a side, monkeyboy.DrBombay
- Don't waste your time, he's just trolling it up. My $ is on either Dinky or JazXukit
- Wouldn't surprise me...DrBombay
- Cmon he suggested Somalia as an example of good health care - he's obviously not seriousukit
- not good healthcare, just unregulated criteria. its a joke answer to a joke question.********
- and blue id liek to paint u a picture later of the hand of god of government sinc eu dont seem to understand it, but now work********
- i gotta go to work.********
- I asked for a country with unregulated that actually gets better outcomes, but whatever dude...keep trolling Dukit
- actually your anecdote is using natural factors with natural factors. gov distortion is in no way natural
- ukit0
This whole deathboy persona seems poorly conceived. You slip in and out of misspelling words. You keep hinting at this "euthanize the population" angle, but it's not clear where it fits in at all.
Looking back on it, hedge was an far the best troll ever on this site. Most of the rest have been pretty predictable and boring.
- at least hedge had a storyline...ukit
- isnt it getrefresh?ephix
- I didn't think he was that intelligentukit
- yes lets look away from what i say and focus on if im a troll. brilliant! sniveling kids********
- and im not for euthanizing the population but at our current rate the planet wont be habitable so im looking farther then a week ahead at options********
- ahead and looking at solutions, a governemtn ran healthcare would be a step in the direction to practice eugenics********
- hell obama advisors know such and have discussed such things********
- why not just use your regular username if your ideas are so great, or are you a little worried what the rest might think of you?ukit
- No doubt. Everyone knows you are another user here. Grow a pair and come out of your closet.DrBombay
- So wait, you think the Obama administration has discussed population eugenics?TheBlueOne
- no, he actually said "they have discussed".. what a blowhard...DrBombay
- ukit0
- Ramanisky20
this just in
Chicago loses bid to host 2016 Olympics. Winner still to be announced.
- zenmasterfoo0
so folks...the political fallout will be what?
- TheBlueOne0
deathboy - you obviously can't read what I wrote, nor did you understand my basic allusion to a natural world system. I disagree with your use of the word "distortion" which is a loaded term. I'm saying any aggregation of power in social space will bend that space to it's interests. How you can conceive of human society, humans being essentially a social creature, without lines and groups of power is totally fairy tale land.
Humans ARE by definition social animals. We aren't lone hunters, as much as some try to think they're Rambo. Human society is a "natural phenomenon" and any person or group within it will and does exert influence. Has there been an organized human society somewhere that existed WITHOUT some form of government, or a group that fulfilled it's function?
Furthermore, I'm making a general statement, the implications of which you ignore, and then you start to ask, in bad, incomplete english a specific policy criticism, "explain how the distortions of government by securing school loans made the education system better with skyrocketing "..without skyrocketing what? And you're not even explaining the terms of what you see as "distortions" in whatever you're trying to say government is doing with whatever point you're trying to make about it. Further, you're making a "better or worse" point, when I was addressing your fundamental point about "government distortion".
I'm going to define "distortion" as "interest"..so yes the government has "interest" in the functioning of a society - it being, in a democracy - the collective will of the voting population. Private groups have "interests" too. They attempt through action, investment, etc. to "distort" the social playing field to their cause as well. So I don't understand how you see one party as "distorting" and another as "natural". Governments, or the will to self-governance by human societies preceded the development of markets, so I would posit that governments, or the function they play, are more fundamentally "natural" to human societies than "free markets".
Tribal human societies have governmental systems, whether it be a hereditary strongman, a ruling family, some sort of coucnil of elders, etc...but exist without the ideology of a "free market". So I would say that the consolidation of economic interests within a market framework are the actual "distortions" on the social space of human societies normal functioning.
