Politics
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- ********0
Bombay wrote:
It is laughable that not getting the olympics could tarnish a presidency.NO, but it is laughable that not getting ANY ONE FUCKING SIGNIFICANT THING WHATSOEVER could tarnish a presidency.
Yep, Nobamas' working on that REAL hard.
- IRNlun60
Emerging market label is obsolete
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/82edf7…Good article from the Financial Times.
- TheBlueOne0
The government is now and always was and always will be part of any market.
Why you guys, in your clueless "gubermint hate" fail to see this I don't understand.
At the bare minimum it is government that provides enforcement of contracts. In fact, the "free market" is made up of corporate entities that exist at the largesse of government recognition. Government approves the players and lays out the rules of any given market.
It's like a bunch of fish claiming that "we don't need water! The less water, the better!" It's maddening that you can't even see the very underlying structure.
If there was no government in the market and say, I don't know, someone reneges on an agreement, where are you going to go fro redress against the other party? Who will you get to enforce the contract?
Now without a government, that usually means the guy with the biggest guns or the most friends (see Somalia, Afghanistan, etc..). With a government made up of oligarchs, economic elites or strongmen, the citizens have no recourse or say (see China, South Korea, etc...)
Blaming politicians for being crooked is like blaming wheels for being round. ALL players in the system try to game it for their benefit. The goal is to try and limit ALL players from doing that. By calling for government to "get out" of the market merely opens the door to corruption/system gaming from other sources - other sources that lie out of the purview and influence of John Q. Public. You can vote out the politicians. Can you go tell the CEO of Exxon what to do? I'm all for limiting corruption in government, and for limiting the amount of influence government has at picking favorites and ginning up the playing field in ways that doesn't benefit the common good. But this blind belief that "government is the problem" is a simple minded misunderstanding of how shit works.
But, no, you do go on and make your ALL CAPS points like "GOVERNMENT POLITICIANS ARE OUT OF FUCKING CONTROL, LYING, THIEVES!!!" because that's real fucking useful.
And you said, "China had better reinvest their capital into infrastructure, because China is a fucking SHIT-PIT." Well, they ARE doing that, because parts of it are a "shit pit"..primarily because they are suffering the effects of rapid industrialization brought about because it is a more appealing market (read profitable) for international corporations to make profit in, who have externalized costs that couldn't be externalized in the US of A. China is a shit pit primarily because government regulations insured that corporations couldn't turn the US into a comparable SHIT PIT. Please see most of the 19th century, when industries weren't regulated and part so of the US were comparable "SHIT PITS", along with say Northern England, etc. But you can't see that, nor do you see any apparent value in that, because you see it as some sort of zero sum game.
Secondly, infrastructure investment can be done at a profit margin in China with a reasonable return on investment, so investment capital WILL go there.
You know Will, I wonder how you run your own company as you don't seem to understand the basics of profit margins and costs of doing business.
Sure, I've read Marx (thought the guy is pretty dead on being descriptive, a total train wreck at saying anything predictive) but you just have to be a student of how capital markets work to understand the fundamental problems in both the US and the global system - and how those problems are systemic as much as they are rooted in various localized pockets of corruption (high finance corruption in the US, crony capitalistic corruption in China).
The "free market" stuff is just pure ideology. Markets are great and the best system we've devised as a species to redistribute wealth and products at medium to large scales, but to assume there is some Platonic "perfect and free market" that exists and we must attain is simply madness. Pursuit of it has led us to where we are, and the failure to recognize that to cling to a life raft of imaginary certainty in the current sea of fear and uncertainty is the sign of a dead philosophy of the past.
- TheBlueOne0
It's frustrating Will, because you and your fellow teabaggers are fundamentally angry at the right things - corruption, system gaming - but then somehow get pointed in the wrong direction that then undermines your own interests..it's bizarre and frustrating to witness..and any ill will or anger I send in your general direction is because of that.
It's like talking to the overweight dude on the couch who says "You know, I need to work out and eat better. I have to get off this couch."
And you go "Yes! damn straight!"
And then they sit there on the couch, flip through the channels and say "Hey, can you get me a coke from the fridge, I don't want to get up my favorite show is on..."
- ********0
Wow. So i'm guessing you blame the corporations for this stumble in the economy. Not the Fed, who increased the demand using their hand of god like powers to control the interest rates. Interest rates that then in turn created a market in the real estate businesses of inflated wealth and no actual substance, a wealth of credit that goes until people figure out the numbers dont add up and see whos actually holding the assets. lets not forget the government incentives that made arms loans so popular and other incentives that make the real estate sector a great way for the government to bring up economics. lets not the forget the SEC, the thought manipulators of confidence. The god hand that says all is ok, we are your protectors, keep investing blindly in 401k's and mutual funds because we assure all the triple AAA CDOs.
And then we get into human nature. Man is a fallible creature who will keep trying to get more and more. If we look at a fish and its owner, gov being owner, fish a company. We see the the nieve little kid owner keep feeding its fish more and more until the fish dies. Then the kid blames the fish, ignoring the nature of the fish. Who is really at fault here. If the kid could have been responsible and understand such things could have found a beneficial middle ground. But now lets say if the kid has a 4 year term to feed the fish and enlarge it to a current size or it loses its pet. We can toss in backhand deals with fish food companies of varying degrees of healthy nutrition and downright posion. The kid is still a creature that will do what is best for themselves. So it will likely takes some deals and feeding the fish to near death proportions, either killing it or making it sick, in order for the kids on ends. Either way the kid tells themselves it not my fault after all im not force feeding the fish its free do as it likes, ignoring the aqaurium. A great illusion of freedom.
You don't seem to see the larger picture and focus right where your controllers tell you to focus. You probably blame the banks most of the population saying they lent more then they should, disregarding all the gov distortions that said the assets were worth it, their human nature to evade, just as you have, any real truth to the matter saying hey everyone else is doing it too, so it must be ok. I dont need to do due diligence and look at the matter because i can assume the other banks did, plus our protectors tell us its the right thing to do. Oh yea ignoring the human nature of supply and demand.
This constant bubble making of gov, to raise money for war funds, economic stimulus for political ranking and shit you say is the only answer. And you say that a market is free to walk when its hands are tied, and then when its legs are tied you say its still a free market because it can see, then when its blind folded u say its still a free market because it can breath. You know nothing of laize faire capitalism unfortunately, and probably never will. You will continue to be satisfied with only the answers u like to hear.
"Incredible. Here we sit at the end of 30+ years of massive government deregulation of industries, ESPECIALLY the banking and finance industry, that resulted in the 2nd worst financial crash in the United States. The Biggest Crash happened in pursuing the exact same policies seventy odd years ago."
U say such things but is that true? Did hoover really practice such things. No. You say 30+ years of deregulation but is that true? No. They are mere fallacies sold to you by the only people who have the voices. And the voices embracing the idea of blaming free markets so they get more political power, or tell you to vote for them and theyll solve the crisis by adding new divisions of god hands that will magically fix the problems caused by other divisions of god hands. Such a continual cycle is what u want. That is your means to an end. And boy what an end it will be.
Company corruption can be fought with buying power, or a proper functioning judicial system that has no ties to business. Political corruption can only be fought with guns. You say it can be fought with voting power.... ha. The voting system only works when there is small and limited government, when its as big as it is, and yet is working to be even bigger, the voting becomes a meaningless tradition. You only say u don't want corruption that won't benefit you. But youre all for corruption that will benefit you right now, ignoring that 30 yrs down the road that corruption u supported will bite u on the ass. And then u will likely bicker and cry, with no reflection on the causes. Oh and you should give up your frustration and jealousy about rich ceo's. I get the impression youre easily manipulated by those emotions.
- You obviously are missing the revolving door between Goldman Sachs et al and the government "regulators"TheBlueOne
- Their is no distinction and the financial elites are corrupting the government. But go ahead and ignore that.TheBlueOne
- ignore the role of the gov and see theyre more responsible for allowing themselves to be corrupted********
- is the kid at fault when it asks the parent for a beer, and the parent gives it to them********
- TheBlueOne0
I'm not going to spend the time schooling you because I'm not getting paid. And using "U" instead f "you"? What are you 18 and just discovered Ayn Rand? Please son, step.
- ********0
And i guess i was hoping in if u really read the article i'd get something a little more substantial then, its just propaganda for Milton Friedman economics. What the hell does that mean? You think history can be ignored by saying its some dudes economic policy. Wasn't that guy for the new deal, isnt his philosophy used in the current bailout? What exactly about his economic theories were involved in the historical facts of the past? It was just some history that isn't as popular and gets buried by people who, can't refute it but sure can do their best to deny it. Your using the same method of the teabaggers of saying obama is hitler. A crazy comparison to denounce something leaving any and all details factual or false out. You are no smarter then the teabaggers, youre just two sides of the same coin.
So now that i know that about you i see no talk with you will go anywhere, so as far as im concerned this matter of economics with you is squashed.
- glad we're clear on that********
- You're "squashing" it? Who are you Kanye?TheBlueOne
- Squash that shit!ukit
- yes i am kanye that is my real identity. big secrets out********
- glad we're clear on that
- TheBlueOne0
Milton Friedman, moron, is not the "guy for the new deal". That would be Keynes. Friedman is a guy who exposed the philosophy your link went to, retard. You agree with Friedman. He is in favor of "free markets" and against all the things you are against. I'm not "ignoring" history, but you're obviously ignorant about it, yet you want to engage in some sort of deep conversation about it?
I'm really done in this thread. I retire. Deathboy made me realize this, thanks.
I have a masters in political science. People get paid to be taught by people with my level of education. If you want to discuss with me more, you can pay me. Otherwise I'm wasting my time and consequently, my money.
And that right there is some straight up capitalist economics.
blather on retards.
- "espoused", not "exposed", btw.TheBlueOne
- wow i hope u didnt pay too much for that learnin u got. or maybe you did and thats why u hate free markets********
- you bought paid a lot of money for damaged goods.********
- if u want though i can make some certificate that says u have a masters in anything else that u'd like, give u a deal on account of your other one********
- the account of your other one********
- ill even give it my famous spelling you so admire. by the way milton supported the whole keynes new deal approach********
- approach. and u apparently don't make any connection between his policy and any particular section of the article********
- ukit0
deathboy - since you're such a fan of free markets, I'm curious how many businesses you've started? Do your business plans show the same eagerness to ignore statistics and just roll with whatever satisfies your Fox News ideology? Do you write memos to your employees with endless run on sentences and misspelled words? What do you actually know about any of this, besides watching TV and reading Drudge Report?
I mean cmon, the Great Depression critique you thought was so devastating, has been passed around millions of times - and I'm sure it originated in a Republican strategy session somewhere in a deliberate attempt to mold people's views on the recession. The whole "socialism" thing is a Republican marketing tactic as well - I can trace it back and tell you the exact moment when it was launched by the McCain campaign about a year ago. It's funny how so many people watch the same TV, come up with the exact same views, and then think they are being original.
- And please - don't waste your time adding 27 notes onto this post, just give the act a rest.ukit
- joeth0
Anyone seen Michael Moore's new movie yet? It's getting some good reviews.
And before you start spewing about what a fat socialist hypocrite he is, you can save you time. I don't give a shit what you think unless you actually saw the film.
- I'll probably try to catch it at some point...I'm on kind of a delayed schedule, finally saw Tarantino's new movie the otehr day;)ukit
- It's good. Saw it yesterday. Take a Right-winger with you if you go.Mimio
- naw thats guys a glenn beck for lefters. but i'll give it to him turning crap into gold.********
- ukit0
This Wall Street Journal profile of Alan Grayson from three years ago is pretty interesting...turns out the guy isn't just a rabble rouser, he's accomplished a lot prior to being a Congressman
http://online.wsj.com/public/art…
From his home office in a pink-painted mansion here, lawyer Alan Grayson is waging a one-man war against contractor fraud in Iraq.
Mr. Grayson has filed dozens of lawsuits against Iraq contractors on behalf of corporate whistle-blowers. He won a huge victory last month when a federal jury in Virginia ordered a security firm called Custer Battles LLC to return $10 million in ill-gotten funds to the government. The ruling marked the first time an American firm was held responsible for financial improprieties in Iraq.
A fierce critic of the war in Iraq, Mr. Grayson drives an aging Cadillac emblazoned with antiadministration bumper stickers such as "Bush Lied, People Died." He says the administration's botched handling of Iraq opened the door for corrupt contractors to improperly reap fortunes there. At a hearing in February 2005 held by Democratic senators, Mr. Grayson asserted that the administration had "not lifted a finger to recover tens of millions of dollars our whistle-blowers allege was stolen from the government."
His opinions on the matter haven't shifted since. "The Bush administration has made a conscious decision to sweep the cases under the rug for as long as possible," he says today. "And the more bad news that comes out of Iraq, the more motivation they have to do so."
For the contractors in his cross hairs, Mr. Grayson, 48, is a formidable opponent. He received his undergraduate, master's and law degrees from Harvard. He made millions during a two-year stint as the president of IDT Corp., a start-up that has since grown into one of the nation's largest providers of discount telecommunications services. Mr. Grayson says he has poured hundreds of thousands of dollars of personal funds into his small eight-person law firm to help defray the costs of pursuing Iraq fraud cases that may not make it to trial for years. "I have deep enough pockets to subsidize the legal work," he says.
- ********0
I haven't started a business. But im sure if i did my business plans wouldn't be effected by news networks. However I wouldnt take kindly to a mandatory health insurance plan, i would rather provide good wages to my employees and treat them as individual contractors/freelancers. If i was to conduct my affairs from statistics alone then i wouldnt be in business very long. So thats a no. I would use multiple contradicting statistics, research, reason, critical thinking, and other resources to find an answer for myself then make a decision and reality will be the judge. And i cant answer your last question...what do i know about any of this. I guess i can answer with i know a lot, and there is a lot i don't know. And the "a lot" is completely relative.
And yea i know the great depression piece has been around... well since when it happened, just some history. I didn't think it to be devastating in anyway. Just interesting. So much confidence on current bailout plans lie in the idea that the new deal was successful. And the denial of all its problems and shaky foundations it created that are now falling apart with compounded weight of other similiar policies. Socialism is the right wings side and the demon free markets is the left. I dont like either sides views. Because its all lip talk. Both sides are hypocritical in actions. There is both truth to the slandering they each throw out, but its never the whole truth, just the parts that glorify their parties. It is funny and sad that people watch the tv that only supplies credibility to their own views, the views that are linked to their identity and the identity they want to project. Intellectual, bohemian, pacificist, progressive, american, anti society. Whatever they want. I know nothing im saying is original.
And after writing all that, i have the gut feeling that this is all wrong. That the talk is bordering on too serious. that this much politics is bad for the soul. Time to go find some wahoo.
- joeth0
- Is this the idol you fags adore?********
- nice vocabulary dipshit.********
- Is this the idol you fags adore?
- ********0
People who believe in planned economy and people who believe in "invisible hand of the free market" -- are really the same deal, just fucking stupid
We all know the commies are bad as they are, but people who are even stupider, uglier, more cowardly and bad-smelling than libertarians, are impossible to find.
Here is something on the ideas of libertarianism:
Anarcho-libertarians came to a conclusion that the ideals of libertarianism can only be realized in monarchy
http://libertariananarchy.com/20…The logic is as follows:
Freedom exists only as a form of private property, and a society is "free" only to the extent to which it develops and protects private property. A government contradicts with the principles of libertarianism, because it is not a private property. So libertarians do not recognize the government as legitimate.But the worst form of government, according to them, is democracy, because it allows every man to violate private property. The less of such opportunities, the better.
But if the state is privately owned, without any manifestation of democracy, then it is instantly legitimate! Hence, every libertarian must be a monarchist.
I think in a few years libertarians will agree that slavery is the perfect political system.
Actually, it all would make sense if libertarians did not actually call themselves "libertarians". The word kind of makes you think of "liberty", but when in real life your philosophy is intermediate between Augusto Pinochet and slavery, then call yourself accordingly: ultra-conservative cocksuckers, and go fuck yourselves.
- ********0
- you stupid, stupid assholehallelujah
- I agree, Hitler would have totally voted for Obama - makes senseukit
- Bad design, just sayin'.********
- ********0
Btw, haven’t you noticed that the most active followers of libertarianism are poor as a church mouse? I don't mean rich dicks who vote republican for tax relief, established people don't gain anything in fighting for ideals, but I mean people who really burn for the ideology itself.
The paradox of libertarianism. The poorer the loser, the more he is into anal masochism and libertarianism.
I think thats why they are libertarians in the first place. People who desire to step up in the ladder of society believe that if they lick the anuses of the people above them, they will magically get closer to the source of power. Libertarianism is a cargo cult. In principle, there are no other explanations to the phenomenon of libertarianism.
http://www.reddit.com/comments/6…
People who have a head on their shoulders, will make it anywhere, and are not really preoccupied with money. Only dumb nitwits and penniless bums, or people who had a difficult childhood -- financially, later get fixated on money and property on the level where they become libertarians.
In the same way, btw, individuality is only valuable to those who do not have it (by nature).
Also, all of the people I know who are libertarians are shorter than 5'8'' -- a rule from which I have yet to find an exception.
- lolhallelujah
- lol x 10ukit
- Like Napoleon complex bit.Mimio
- Mimio0
- is it a right when its at the cost of someone else? That shit is what makes people get confused by what is A right and whats not.********
- whats not.********
- is it a right when its at the cost of someone else? That shit is what makes people get confused by what is A right and whats not.
- bliznutty0
i hate to bump this thread b/c it sucks .. world watch out
The US president cited East Africa, Southeast Asia, Europe and the Persian Gulf in addition to Afghanistan and Pakistan, as the hotbeds for terrorist activities and what he called threats against Washington.
- Are you seriously still towing that line? Who do you think funds 'terrorists?'********
- Are you seriously still towing that line? Who do you think funds 'terrorists?'
