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  • utopian3

    Dark Mode = Innovation

    • it is lovely though.fadein11
    • utopian never sleepsIanbolton
    • remember when some climate activist nerds introduced a dark mode google and calculated how much energy we saves worldwide using it? 7 years to go mainstream?uan
    • lol, why would you say it's mainstream just because Apple did it in their OSs?monospaced
    • twitter did it also, and more and more websites, webapps have it as option too.uan
    • apple introduced it in ios first, then osx I think. then the web started to followuan
    • more people see it working on their loved devices, they get used to it and start demanding it (or as I see the users: complaining about not having it).uan
    • I think it's simpler than anything: people like new. Lots of people happen to have iPhones.monospaced
    • Surprised Android doesn't have it as a standard option.monospaced
    • I bet android had a plugin before ios for that. but let us see if it becomes more standard now more ppl are seeing it thanks to apple. also windows has it.uan
    • My brain can’t adjust to dark mode - for reading or reviewing images.Gnash
    • used it for about 2 hours, reading mail was terrible so i switched it back._niko
    • same here...I don't use ituan
    • it's not mine. and history shows: it makes a lot of sense that letters are printed in black on white.sandpipe
    • i really enjoy it at night, dont want to look into the white bright light - on daytime i dont like it and it's off. (plugin)api
    • I find it useful while lying in bed in the middle of night...instead of sleeping or fucking my lady, I go into dark mode to research white papers in dark mode.utopian
    • Innovation never sleeps!utopian
    • how many fucked up mail signatures have you seen since this "innovation" btw ;DArchitectofFate
  • section_0141

    I only use Macs (a hackintosh in my case) for audio production these days. I have a Windows pc for games and the occassional photoshop session. Everything else is Linux on my laptop (and home servers).

    The hackintosh is nearly 5 years old, so I thought I'd look at what Apple is offering. The Mac mini, even with the Apple tax, isn't too bad. Considering the amount of shit in my office these days, the small form factor is nice too.

    But, holy-fucking-shit-balls, the pricing on the upgrades are absolutely absurd. $200 for 8 more GB of RAM. Which, is user upgradable, so not a big deal.

    But, $200 extra for a 512GB hard drive (which should be standard), or an eye watering $400 for the terabyte drive. Dude. What the fuck? A 1TB M.2 Samsung Evo hard drive is only $160 on Newegg. That's just extortion.

    So, I guess I'll just build another hackintosh. Apple could have just copied the Intel Nuc form factor where only the CPU is soldered, and the rest is socketed. Or, at the very least, left space for another drive (which the Nuc also does). I don't get it.

    • That 512 isn't a "hard drive", it's a PCI-E module with 3.4GB/s peak I/O. Still more expensive from Apple than buying yourself, but it's not any old SSD.evilpeacock
    • For comparison a ~$250 1TB M.2 Samsung Evo peaks at 600MB/s.evilpeacock
    • My soldered storage concern is that when that PCI-E module goes, you're stuck with external I/O. I typically run Macs for 5-10 years so replacement is a thing.evilpeacock
    • But, to be fair, a Mac Mini isn't really designed for more than a 5 year run without going DIY on the case.evilpeacock
    • Apple know their target audience. And its an audience who wont build a computer and is willing to pay for Apple even if its pricier than it should.Bennn
    • I'm cool with EVO speed. I have one in my Nuc, and it's very fast. My current hackintosh has a 7200 mech. drive. No bottlenecks.section_014
    • @evil: an M.2 can have up to 4GB/s bandwidth... it does hook up directly to the PCI-E bus, up to 4 lanes. This is standard tech, nothing Apple specific so it'szarkonite
    • available to anyone building their own pc.zarkonite
    • Yes there’s a markup on the SSD but it’s way better than the Samsung you’re conparing too and you’re also getting the design and case.monospaced
    • I still don’t want to buy a Mac anymore. It’s probably gonna be hackintosh if I ever need a computer again.monospaced
    • Sure, there are EVO levels and even 600MB/s is fine for most. I'm just used to folks comparing vastly different SS standards as if they'd cost the same.evilpeacock
    • Respect to Hackintoshs. But the Hackintosh-savvy is definitely not Apple's target market.evilpeacock
    • I set up an employee with a 6-core Mini. Those CPUs are server-class. IMO the soldered storage is the only negative.evilpeacock
    • @evil peacock, The Samsung Evo Plus M.2 (in my hackintosh) is 3.5G/s and 1TB is < £75kingsteven
    • I have 8 core i9 9900k, Windows 10 dual boot on a second M.2 and 2TB SATA SSD Storage, TB3, Firewire, Vega 64...kingsteven
    • highest spec'd 6-core mini is 75% CPU performance, slower ram +iGPU for nearly double the price. if you're not afraid to get your hands dirty its a no brainer..kingsteven
    • also, + mac user for 20 years here... Windows 10 is better.kingsteven
    • and an i7 8700k is not a 'server class' processor, its typically found in 'under £1k intel gaming PC' builds.kingsteven
    • Apple uses Toshiba parts for their SSD with an Intel controller. That drive is worth about $130USD on newegg.zarkonite
    • Ah, got the "server class" wrong. What I was getting at is that higher level CPU in the current Mini vs the previous. Still i5 or i7 8th gen options.evilpeacock
    • Anyways, this is turning into a desktop vs mini PC form factor comparison which doesn't make sense.evilpeacock
    • Also, supposedly an i9 is only 9.4% faster than an i7. Intel just isn't making the leaps anymore.evilpeacock
    • yep, it also runs HOT so a small form factor would be out of the question. 2 extra cores helps. when you look at the single thread performance of the xeonskingsteven
    • in the new mac pros the i9 has better single thread performnce and for actually better for music making and gamingkingsteven
  • sted1

    • What am I looking at here?Hayzilla
    • It's called Innovation, look it up!utopian
    • Hit "allow" and call it a day. Are you boys or men? Clearly the former...ideaist
    • Kind of shitty you have to re-enable all the permissions from your upgraded system, what's the security risk exactly?zarkonite
    • My Catalina test install only did a handful of re-logins and it's loaded down with Adobe CC and other messy third-party installs.evilpeacock
    • looks like someone turned on Filevault, and specifically told the OS he wanted these precautions to access the user foldersmonospaced
    • You have to do a lot of work to make your computer that annoying. This shouldn't be called Apple.CyBrainX
    • Anyone on a Mac using Parallels has already lost my respect.ideaist
    • Thought so, this guy's being a troll/clickwhore.zarkonite
    • This is standArd Unix behavior though. Protect the user account at all means, especially root, and that’s why it’s so secure.monospaced
    • Courageerr
  • utopian-1

    You lazy least fix your bad UI design!

    • Paging All Apple Apologists!
      Paging All Apple Apologists!
      Paging All Apple Apologists!
      Paging All Apple Apologists!
    • What about it is wrong? Isn't it meant so you can swipe further?NBQ00
    • LOL. You can scroll that section, and a pattern like that which shows a portion of the overflow content is pretty standard.mg33
    • Also, what device are you on? I'm looking at an 11 Pro and it displays 7 hours worth perfectly within the viewport.mg33
    • but why would you need to request a user interaction to see all the content. you got plenty of room there to find a good solution, the apps knows the width.uan
    • Plenty of room for 24hrs of data? where?zarkonite
    • you could show a 24h graph, so you save the space to repeat the temp and AMs for instance.uan
    • Like most of their products in recent years...just lazy, really lazy.utopian
    • My iPhone weather shows all 7 hours perfect. This is doctored or something.monospaced
    • My X displays it like this - never bothered me though. I'm in the same boat as MG that it has become a pretty standard pattern for indicating more is offscreen.duckseason
    • utopians apple obsession strikes again.inteliboy
  • MarleyMarl0

    Has anyone updated to Catalina? If so, any issues with Adobe apps and compatibility?

    • I'm running it on a test machine. A bunch of Creative Cloud 32-bit support apps get the circle slash icon, but the major apps seem to function so far.evilpeacock
    • Officially Adobe has called out small things not working if you're using the latest CC. I'd suggest waiting till 15.3 to give everyone more time to patch.evilpeacock
    • Yeah, odds and ends issues BUT overall tight IF you're running legally/updated.ideaist
    • Def wait for
  • utopian1

    Apple defends the way it shares Safari browser data with Google and Tencent…

  • NBQ003

    • Wayne Westerman the person who actually created MultiTouch for Apple was not even invited or mentioned at the event. Steve Jobs was an arrogant and petty POS.utopian
    • Where did Steve touch you?monospaced
    • Maybe not just Steve‘s fault but yes it‘s a shame. And he still works for Apple.NBQ00
    • Yea a shame but tbh he was as much of the Apple brand as the phone. I'm sure Musk doesn't do shout outs when he launches stuff.Hayzilla
    • The bigger question is where did Steve touch you?utopian
    • that makes no sensemonospaced
    • nothing makes sense to you.utopian
    • you have problemsmonospaced
  • NBQ000

    Damn those AirPods Pro are ugly. And they don’t even come in Space Grey.

    • Looks like the stick is significantly shorter, which is better. The addition of the fit tips are absolutely necessary. The result is an improvement.monospaced
    • disagree. they look how they should have in the first place.inteliboy
    • Of course mono thinks that they're great, lolutopian
    • but aren’t they what the professionals use? professional music listeners?prophetone
    • Yes it's an improvement but they're still ugly. I guess prettier than Microsoft's earbuds tho.NBQ00
    • did I say they were "great?" no, I didn't, I said they were an improvement on the original designmonospaced
    • I bet your narrow minded apple-obsessed simpleton ass owns every fucking edition though, because you're such a cunt. I'm pretty sure you've preordered these toomonospaced
    • I don't know anyone else who owns as many apple products as you and still whines like a little bitch ass bitch about them, day and night.monospaced
    • These airpods seem well designed to me, at least they're competitive with the market now. I'd get some if I was on an iPhone.zarkonite
    • The airpods don't sound any better than the wired ear buds they used to sell for about $45. Get something with superior sound.CyBrainX
    • Right. They don’t. But silicon tips will create a nice seal that plastic never could. Which helps with sound and fit.monospaced
  • sted0

    • They're so bland and characterlessNairn
    • Let me guess...Apple innovation?utopian
    • Android's are betterBennn
    • Once you start there's no end. Where are all the wheelchair emoji faces? Where are the deaf emojis? Where are the mentally ill and other invisible minorities?i_monk
    • Or we could have stuck with cartoonish yellow.i_monk
  • zarkonite0

    The tech at work upgraded my machine to the latest OS and the change in "play/pause" button behaviour is really annoying.

    If I've got spotify playing already and hit pause, it'll pause Spotify but if I press play again to start up the music it will select a random tab in chrome to play anything with a video player... worse, if I have itunes opened it will start to play itunes on top of spotify instead of pausing spotify.

    It seems they can't figure out which app is playing and retain that state for when it's time to un-pause or they're just trying to force me into not using spotify. meh.

    • Welcome to my world.Hayzilla
    • Why doesnt the new Podcast app have the play/pause function on the contextual pull-up menu on the icon? First world problems?Ianbolton
  • ideaist2

    Thought this was well thought out; people (especially older folks) are concerned with this:

    • Nicely designedGnash
    • Fantastic.mg33
    • Apple are widley regarded even by Snowden as the least cunty of all the awful tech companies out there.Hayzilla
    • And by law enforcement agencies the most secure as well by a long shot.monospaced
  • mg330

    While you guys are bickering down below about the AirPods Pro...

    I grabbed some yesterday and was pleasantly surprised at how great noise cancellation is. I ride a commuter train to/from work and there's a lot of ambient noise that's filtered out. Used then when I was working out last night; my gym setup is near our furnace and it's got a decent amount of noise that it kicks off. With the headphones in and no music playing it pretty much blocked the furnace out completely when I was four feet away from it.

    I've never had any headphones like that before and use over ear AIAIAI TMA-1 headphones at work.

    Bass is much better and no doubt improved via the noise cancelling. I like the shorter stick as well.

    • Have you run with them mg33? I find them not secure...

      ...LOVE the AIAIAI offerings. Trying to justify the TMA-2WIRELESS 1, BUT simply cannot.

      : (
    • I don't run much anymore, ride my Peloton more. And here's the problem... Maybe I was pairing them wrong, but the Peloton didn't recognize themmg33
    • I'm wondering if that's the case, because the phone itself needed an OS update to use them.mg33
    • U rich bro? Haha; jealous. Looking at ZWIFT solutions for cycling when the snow falls...ideaist
    • Ha, we bought the Peloton in 2017 when we moved to the suburbs. With 1 kid already and another on the way, it's not in the cards for me to bike outdoorsmg33
    • as regularly as I'd like to. BTW that's referring to 2017 when we moved that we had a second child on the way.mg33
    • Seems like you're enamoured with noise cancelling than the headphone itself? I have over ear noise cancelling ones and they are great. Personally hate in-ear.Hayzilla
    • BTW, my next-door neighbor uses ZWIFT and apparently loves it.mg33
    • 2 kids here too brother; long bike rides are a thing of the past... *sigh*... Zwift and "mental trips" will have to do for now... :)ideaist
  • uan2

    • I think that will be my 4th mbp in life.uan
    • Loving my 15" of the last generation; I can't force iTunes (and a few other apps) to use 1/2 horionztal space, though...

      ...I wonder if the 16" would allow?
    • Not too bad, considering their recent history. Only offering USB-C style ports is still stupid as fuck.section_014
    • The USB-C style is the only one that will allow bandwidth for all formats. It's Thunderbolt 3 and frankly, I admit, now makes sense.monospaced
    • I hope the keyboard is actually fixed now. I'm on my second one and it's already shitting the bed.monospaced
    • 64GB Ram, niceNBQ00
    • Good coverage of the keyboard: https://daringfireba…evilpeacock
  • NBQ001

  • BusterBoy2


  • craigatkinson0

    quick price comparison, which is making me consider jumping over...again

    New 16" MBP
    2.4GHz 8-core 9th-generation Intel Core i9 processor, Turbo Boost up to 5.0GHz
    32GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory
    AMD Radeon Pro 5500M with 8GB of GDDR6 memory
    2TB SSD storage
    3 yr Apple Care

    TOTAL £4200 / £3900 (student)

    Dell XPS 15 (15.6")
    Same spec except NVIDIA(R) GeForce(R) GTX 1650 4GB GDDR5
    plus 3 year next day on site fix

    £2650 / £2400 student

    £1.5k extra for the mac. I get the OS argument, but I've had some shit from Apple this year with things breaking and OS bugs which are unresolved, so can it be much different?

    windows 'ecosystem' arguably better for kids to get into too, for school etc, but apple have imessage /facetime / airdrop / ease of all that. Apple tax though...seems a lot for phone, computers, tablets combined, £1000s

    Looking for answers...not expecting to find any

    • it's entirely down to you. either you want a mac, in which case pony up the extra £££. or you just want a laptop in which case get the dell.hans_glib
    • or do what i did and get a second hand macbook pro from macbank. and it helps save the planet at the same time, apparently.hans_glib
    • I know that, more I'm questioning the benefit of a mac. It can't just be vanity, surely?craigatkinson
    • er, yes it can be.hans_glib
    • Some of it comes down to fit and finish and quality of individual build parts beyond just processors. Milled aluminum and premium stuff.monospaced
    • Dude. The equivalent dell is the same price and not as powerful.monospaced
    • The Mac is so much more expensive in the UK anyway, I guess because of the Brexit crap or something.NBQ00
    • mono, the equiv dell is £1500 less and arguably more powerful - see my post!
      premium stuff? Do you mean a nice box?
    • This is with all the high end specs and add ons...but I'm seeing it come out to something like $1000 cheaper on Apple's main site in the US.yuekit
    • ok, but I'm in the UK, and its the same spec as the dellcraigatkinson
    • Hmmm where can you see the price for the high end XPS? Having trouble finding it on Dell's site.yuekit
    • I have no doubt Apple is more expensive for the same specs, but you might also be seeing an exaggerated version of the price because of where you live.yuekit
    • choose based on the software you use, i'm in the process of switching but it's going to take a few years due to my reliance on FCP and Logickingsteven
    • running a hackintosh and doing all my dev and design work in Win 10 and it wasnt much of a fuss to switchkingsteven
    • yuekit, the price is the price- its not exaggerated. Dells - just make the thing and put in the basket - price goes up along the way. Maybe diff out of uk?craigatkinson
    • Look at Lenovo's X1 too. Some great sales going on right now (like 30-40% off). I got my nephew a killer machine for $1300.formed
    • and it's not even vanity at this point, it's just consumer naivete (just like Volvo still is thought of as being "safer").formed
    • The high end 15" Dell XPS is listed at $2,999. THat's the same as the MBP 16", which has a better display.monospaced
    • Apple charges more because they can. They know their massive marketing campaigns work well. Gotta pay the ad agencies somehow!formed
    • Proof? Click here:…monospaced
    • silly wabbits, macs are for girls and non techie types like boomersmoldero
    • The Dell is $200 more here, at least.monospaced
    • mono, I'll email you my receipt. And they knocked an extra £100 off, £2300 for a better spec than the 16" mbp as shown in my post. I'm talking £ not $ UK pricecraigatkinson
    • I believe you. But over here, the MBP is cheaper, not half price. THat's all.monospaced
    • I don't know how the Dell would be $2,999 dollars and only €2650 euro. I don't think it's the same specs as the one I linked to. Oh well.monospaced
    • You can find great sales on Dell's and Lenovo's, knocking the prices down another 20-40%.formed
  • nb5

    Why is the MacBook more expensive than Dell?

    I bought a MBP in 2004, used it for design, photography, video. Was both my work and personal computer. Travelled the world with it. It died in 2013. Nine years of use.

    In 2013, I replaced it with a refurbished MBP. Six years of use and I'm thinking it might be nice to get a one, but I'll probably keep this for a couple more years. It has no issues, runs fine.

    Know anyone using a 2013 Dell for graphics work?

    Amortized over the years, the Mac is cheaper. And arguably better for the environment.

    Now, if you need the latest spec each year or two for Pro work, maybe the Mac isn't the best value. You should calculate cost of ownership, including resale value.

    I'm not saying the last few years of Apple laptops has been good. It hasn't. But the 16" is a step in the right direction.

    • And also, yeah, part of it is the luxury tax.nb
    • I'd be very surprised if there weren't oodles of people quietly beavering away on old Dells without much thought about it.Nairn
    • I don't like Dell, but they're solidly-built, unfussy machines and given the cost difference, can come with better specs than Apple meaning they'll last longerNairn
    • I have an old Dell I still use that's probably 2011. My Precision running W2000 works perfectly fine, too.formed
    • That Precision is from something like 2004, fyi.formed
    • I'd take a Dell with Mac OS running smoothly. I hate the Windows environment.i_monk
    • Seconded, my Macs always last a long time and I've been able to fix/upgrade everything I needed to.mathinc
    • I just retired my 2012 iMac. My 2015 laptop is still a beast, just upgraded the SSD and I'll probably keep it another 3 years or so.mathinc
    • I've had little bugs here and there, but I just can't hang with the Microsoft operating system.mathinc
    • I’m still rocking a 2011 mbpGnash
    • Y'all using these Dells to run Adobe CC 2019 apps?!nb
    • I mean your old Dells. It's fine if it still works, but does it still "work" work?nb
    • If you are not willing to invest $$$ in something you'll spend 40+ hours a week working on, than I'd say you're a "windows guy".

      : )
    • Most Dell hardware can be had cheaper than Apple, and on paper the specs are generally better. This was always the case.evilpeacock
    • But I've IT'ed a fleet of Dell laptops and had to do multiple part replacements frequently. And drivers aren't updated as much as the component vendors.evilpeacock
    • And Dell support software was stuck in an endless security backdoor scandal which sucked up IT resources.evilpeacock
    • Dell vs Apple cost-of-ownership was kind of a wash, with Dells needing more support and having more downtime for that. YMMV of course, it depends on what you doevilpeacock
    • Ha! Gnash, me too 2011 mbp still going strong running adobe cc flawlessly including after effects work_niko
    • My current MBP is from 2009. Only use it for work the odd time but its still going strong. I will finally replace it with the new release though.desmo
    • Also, Apple has always been significantly more expensive since day 1. If price is a big factor for you, then the choice should be easy.desmo
    • anything can last, that's a false measure, especially if you keep fixing it! My 2018 MBP is broken, lasted 15 months. I own a tshirt I got 10 years ago.craigatkinson
    • Longevity isn't a measure of goodnesscraigatkinson
    • Look at avacado. They only last a day or two, but they're great, and expensive, and a unibody shell.craigatkinson
    • Although, if I bought Apple stock with the money I spent on my first Mac, I’d have retired years agoGnash
    • Have a 2010 Dell that works great for most things still. It a little too slow for video work but for Photoshop and Illustrator and general use its still good.webazoot
    • Had to replace the keyboard about three years ago and strip it apart to clean the fan out a couple of times but other than that...webazoot
    • @desmo Have also a 2009 MBP and running smoothly still with 8GB ram, idk why ppl complain - apple is more expensive but they last 3-4 x of any regular laptopgrafician
    • Waiting for the 16" FULL screen tho' maybe in 2 generations to upgrade for something like $5k and last me past 2025 at leastgrafician
    • I have a few MBPs from 2011 still going, just had RAM, SSD and battery upgrades but they work really well overall.evilpeacock
    • We ran a Power Mac G4 "Smurf" tower "legacy" backup server for 19 years before the power supply gave up. Got our $4K value out of that for sure.evilpeacock
    • Cuz people are buying mb. If people didn't buy then they'd be cheaperHayoth
    • I still use my Dell Precision M6800 laptop for all my work. I bought it 2014 or something like that. It's the size of an old VCR though.haga
    • @craigatkinson You're literally comparing Apples to Avocados!!! :)nb
    • Longevity may not be all that matters, but this is a machine which I use for work so cost-of-ownership is highly relevant.nb
    • Our stories are anecdotal. However, it is possible that a MBP could have lower cost of ownership than a Dell, there is little reason to buy Dell.nb
    • ...unless you really love Dell and want to drop the extra cash on it. ;)nb
  • craigatkinson0

    Over the past five years.
    MBP hard drive died. They replaced with a new machine.
    Screen broke through heat / malfunction. They replaced.
    iphone xr lens malfunction - replaced.
    2018 MBP battery swelling - in next week and I expect they'll replace.
    Screen time - bug / kids cant use devices even though we can log in - they have no idea wht/why...

    Apple service is excellent, no question. BUT, there is no other company that I have ever had to rely on their service so much. I'm glad your stuff lasted. None of mine has — not one.

    • I work in/with an IT staff that services 800 pc's. Shit breaks all day, every day, no matter the vendor. Dell, HP, Canon, Kyocera, Meraki, everything.section_014
    • so pc and mac both the same thencraigatkinson
    • they use the same internals, so that would be expected. With Apple, you are paying for the logo, which many are fine with.formed
    • Fair enough, it has been a dark time for apple laptops.nb
    • I'm paying for the OS + build quality, not the logo. The logo could be a ballsack and I'd still buy the machine.e-wo
  • uan2
    • a good read.utopian
    • yes, good but look at the context within which it's published — an Apple event. Selection bias and anchor effect at play, there will be truth in it, of course.craigatkinson
    • the context is a several year transition of giving employees Macs and it just Windows PCs and then reporting factual results at IBMmonospaced
    • This says more about the users than it does the computers. Also, they conveniently left out the part where Windows has tightly coupled network user management.section_014
    • ...and Apple has none. So, you're using RedHat or Windows Server anyways.section_014
    • it is in JAMFs interest to reprot favourably on Apple. Not to say there isn't truth but it's one sided. What's the baselin, who's the user and their knowledge?craigatkinson
    • it's IBM reporting this to JAMF ... and yes, Apple has Server softwaremonospaced
  • NBQ000