Moses was High
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- czawada0
The thing that I don't get is that 9 out of 10 Christians just take what the bible says or what the church tells them for face value.
I don't know how anyone can trust a grown man who wears a white muumuu and burns incense.
- It's not the muumuu. It's what's under the muumuu. Meditate on that.harlequino
- that's why I like the greek orthodox church- the don't believe he was god and they make their priests marryLlyod
- faitha_iver
- gramme0
czawada,
Where do you get your absurd ideas about Christianity? I don't know what kind of quacks you've come in contact with, but I for one sure as hell have NEVER bought ANYTHING ANYONE has EVER told me at face value. I think critically about it, question it, look at the alternatives. Doing this strengthens my belief, or steers me in another direction. Either way, the belief is shaped not just by the revelation of scripture, but by honest inquiry as well.
- gramme0
The trouble, Chris, is that you do not believe, you think belief in the unseen is absurd, and there is thus nothing I could ever say that would shed a light of reason on your view toward all things spiritual.
- That's right I don't believe. Christianity is on the same level as the tooth fairy in my books. Religion causes war and hate.czawada
- people cause war and hate. Not religion. What a dimwitted notion...gramme
- Keep telling yourself that. Pretty bold for you to say that religion doesn't influence people to fight.czawada
- You obviously know nothing of world history.czawada
- mrdobolina0
you say believe the book then talk about the things that are just parable, it's ridiculous.
- Your inability to grasp the different literary styles which make our bible...teleos
- ...is rediculous. Again, read a book.teleos
- jesus hates when you smite memrdobolina
- studderine0
i went to roman catholic school for 12 years, and i'd have to say for a catholic school they were quite liberal (aka, didn't teach us the world was 2,000 years old, taught us about other religions). however, being that it was shoved down my throat for so long i got sick of it. in addition, the fact that the catholic school let child molesters right around is the only reason i need to call it bullshit. essentially, religion has some to take out of it, but there is too much bad.
- gramme0
dobs, have you studied scripture? Do you even know which parts are parable and which parts are straight history?
How would you define parable? The parts of the Bible that are clearly parable (Jesus told many of them) are moral lessons. What's absurd about believe the lesson delivered by the parable?
Studderine: I had a similar experience growing up. I spent years in private Christian schools. The thing I discovered is that the truth is immune to human meddling. Christians can be corrupt in varying degrees (they are still sinners after all), but Christ is not. I take hope in that knowledge.
- mrdobolina0
"dobs, have you studied scripture? Do you even know which parts are parable and which parts are straight history?"
based on what? some religious analysis? this thing has been twisted all up, thus 500 differing sects of your "religion"
- mrdobolina0
at the pearly gates:
You: Hey Im an Evangelical, let me in.
St. Peter: Sorry, we are catholic, the american evangelicals called catholicism, the whore of christianity.
You: Oops, guess I lost the white man's religious lotto.
- gramme0
Among scholars who hold that the Bible is the word of God, there are none who disagree about which parts are parable, which parts are prophecy, and which parts are straightforward history.
When Jesus spoke in parable, it was very clearly stated, even using words like "...and Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying..."
- Mimio0
Who cares? the parts presented as fact by the authors are pure bullshit. C'mon, the day Jesus was supposedly resurrected all the dead people in the graveyards are said to have crawled out from their tombs. You'd think there would a be a single secular record of such a major event considering it was a roman occupied city at the time.
- ********0
I like the way Christians do good things because God says its the right thing to do.
I do good things for their own sake. I can do all the good things they could ever do, and more, without mentioning a God.
If all their hocum turns out to be true, and my actions and beliefs are judged by the supreme creator of the universe, then honestly I do not think that my purely abstract position on the motivation for my actions is really going to make that much difference to the final verdict.
Either I did good things, helped people and was a blessing to the world, spreading love and kindness and wisdom and compassion, leaving it a better and more enriched place than when I came, or I did not. All of that is far more important than the mind-games that religions wish to send spinning round and round our tiny minds.
'There was a man, who wasnt a man - he was God (despite this contradicting all the previous definitions of a dubiously angry God), who came to earth to spread a message of peace and love'...ok, fine with that so far, sounds good...."then - he was killed for generally pissing off TheMan, threatening the status quo of the authorities, and was nailed to a cross'...ok, good dramatic device - nice demonstration of sacrfice to a greater cause, Im on board...
"Then, he actually didnt die, but disappeared up into the sky.....(er...ok)....and because he did this, everyone in history, and in the future will be saved. From being punished.".
What ?
"If you take an abstract position about yourself, of believing 'in' him, then your mistakes will not damn you to an eternity in a fiery cave.".
Come again ?
Believe IN him ? What does that mean ? Believe in his presence as a supernatural entity ? Believe what he said was wise and correct ? Believe the death/not death thing ? I'm sorry Im confused about all that...It just doesnt make any sense - it doesnt add anything to the notion of their being a perfect, omnipotent, loving creator - why would he complicate things by having to do this ?
Is it like a technical issue with how love operates within the world ? Something like a 'security update patch' ? SP2 ?And - god !, do people ever bang on and on and on and on about this nonsense ?!??!!?
Just get on with being decent and civil to each other, make sacrifice to do this as much as you are able, just cut the crap, eh ?
- Llyod0
how much peyote did joseph smith take?
- unfortunately somewhat less than an instantly lethal dose.********
- unfortunately somewhat less than an instantly lethal dose.
- ivanb0
"Ezekiel Aleph" is another example of the same and has been regarded as such for a long time by mind-altering drug researchers.
It wasn't as publicized, because it is one part of the Torah that is not studied in detail for many reasons.
It even states in the beginning that God gives a little piece of paper (a small scroll) to Ezekiel and tells him to put it under his tongue "and life will taste like honey" God says. After that all things become something else, Merkava lands, Ezekiel has a "dream" which is real, etc. Like really weird things happen.
Anyway, the whole chapter is fascinating reading and to this day my favorite.
- neverblink0
Doing good for the sake of God is as selfless as it gets, and is thus the greatest thing a person can do.
- grammeMy only question is: If a Christian does good, only for the Glory of his God. Why should there have to be a reward for the Christian? Doesn't that ultimatly boil down to the Christian doing it for the reward / his own ego.
I think the whole concept of a 'Kingdom of Heavens' is a fairytale to give people hope who can not be satisfied by the fact that they lived their lives only for the 'Glory of God' and ultimatly to establish 'God's Kingdom' right here on earth.
I think you are truly devoted if you don't need the reward at the end of the struggle. If you truly believe you are 'fighting for a good cause' the notion that you might have helped your ideals become reality should be enough reward for you.
btw. This applies to all religions.
- the other thing is that a lot of christians fear hell and that is the driving factor of their beliefs.ephix
- Heaven = Earth = Hell ... it's just what you make itneverblink
- how very existential, blink********
- ephix0
Not saying I agree with Zeitgeist the movie. But I do like this clip in it.
- Khurram0
"O Arjuna, the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation."
"Do thou fight for the sake of fighting, without considering happiness or distress, loss or gain, victory or defeat."
"You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty. Perform your duty equipoised, O Arjuna, abandoning all attachment to success or failure. Such equanimity is called yoga."
"A person who is not disturbed by the incessant flow of desires — that enter like rivers into the ocean, which is ever being filled but is always still — can alone achieve peace, and not the man who strives to satisfy such desires... A person who has given up all desires for sense gratification, who lives free from desires, who has given up all sense of proprietorship and is devoid of false ego — he alone can attain real peace."
- TheBlueOne0
Be excellent to each other.
- teleos0
You can some up every objection to Christianity and the Bible in this thread, with one word: strawman. People here are to lazy to actually learn and understand what they are attacking. So they erect a strawman and then conveniently knock it down.
[for those who don't know what a strawman is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Str…. Or just ask mrdobolina; he has perfected the art. Without realizing it though.]
- and for this I will burn in hell, doesnt that make you happy?mrdobolina
- You can't sum up every objection here that way.Mimio
- detritus0
Why should the onus be on us to waste our time researching your self-enforcing meta reality? Surely, then, we'd have to do this for every other belief system too? How then would we cross-compare and analyse the relative strengths and weaknesses of each?
By applying scientific rationality to the study? Would that not then undermine the entire effort?
You can't argue with/against belief - it's just that, belief.
Being that we're essentially quite ignorant little creatures, I'll hedge my bets on all our beliefs being essentially valueless in the face of the Universe's truth - that, there is no truth other than what we create for ourselves.