Moses was High
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- teleos0
mrdobolina: You will only go to hell for rejecting God's one and only provision for your sin: Jesus, the person. And for no other reason.
And you won't literally "burn" in hell. You will experience conscious separation in darkness, from the one who loves you unconditionally (this is why Christ likens it to the trash-dump outside of Jerusalem where there was a continual fire burning the garbage. He used illustrations the people of his day could relate to.)
- Love how you can claim to know what hell is really like. Hilarious :)dr_pangloss
- My description is based on what the new testament teaches.teleos
- That's what they all say...dr_pangloss
- Keep drinking that kool-aid.czawada
- teleos0
detritus: You should only research if you are going to make dogmatic assertions about it's proponents and what they allegedly believe and preach.
In light of the reality of human consciousness and moral awareness, I will continue to suggest that there is an absolute and objective truth/reality which we were designed to pursue.
- mrdobolina0
here's a novel thought, when you die, you're dead. is that not possible?
- kelpie0
"It was The Gospel from Outer Space, by Kilgore Trout. It was about a visitor from outer space, shaped very much like a Tralfamadorian, by the way. The visitor from outer space made a serious study of Christianity, to learn, if he could, why Christians found it so easy to be cruel. He concluded that at least part of the trouble was slipshod storytelling in the New Testament. He supposed that the intent of the Gospels was to teach people, among other things, to be merciful, even to the lowest of the low.
But the Gospels actually taught this:
Before you kill somebody, make absolutely sure he isn't well connected. So it goes.The flaw in the Christ stories, said the visitor from outer space, was that Christ, who didn't look like much, was actually the Son of the Most Powerful Being of the Universe. Readers understood that, so, when they came to the crucifixion, they naturally thought, and Rosewater read out loud again:
Oh, boy -- they sure picked the wrong guy to lynch that time!
And then that thought had a brother: "There are right people to lynch." Who? People not well connected. So it goes.The visitor from outer space made a gift to Earth of a new Gospel. In it, Jesus really was a nobody, and a pain in the neck to a lot of people with better connections than he had. He still got to say all the lovely and puzzling things he said in the other Gospels.
So the people amused themselves one day by nailing him to a cross and planting the cross in the ground. There couldn't possibly be any repercussions, the lynchers thought. The reader would have to think that, too, since the new Gospel hammered home again and again what a nobody Jesus was.
And then, just before the nobody died, the heavens opened up, and there was thunder and lightning. The voice of God came crashing down. He told the people that he was adopting the bum as his son, giving him the full powers and privileges of The Son of the Creator of the Universe throughout all eternity. God said this: From this moment on, He will punish horribly anybody who torments a bum who has no connections!"- I prefer Kurtkelpie
- hehe :)dr_pangloss
- dreadful theology. -1teleos
- Missed the point, so it goes...dr_pangloss
- "theology" ha!kelpie
- teleos0
sure, it's possible. But I doubt it. Since we are conscious beings who long for purpose and yearn for meaning beyond our daily routines (as though we were hard-wired that way), I would say there is something more. Plus, I believe the resurrection of Christ is an immutable fact. There's just too much historical evidence to discard it.
- Why do I have to "yearn" for something all the time. I find peace, joy and solace in the details of daily existence.TheBlueOne
- Sure. We still taste of what this creation was intended to be like. But we also experience the intense pain and anguish.
teleos - Says he who knows the mind of god. Classic!dr_pangloss
- we know that which has been revealed in the Bible, no more.gramme
- TheBlueOne0
How about this: I wholeheartedly reject the idea that Jesus was the one and only Son of God who came down here on some weird mission to "save" me or anyone else. He was one of a hundred holy mystics at the time who got lucky and had the right connections and was useful to the right people to turn into a global cult. He had some great ideas, certainly well worth following and meditating upon, but there was nothing special about his death and he didn't rise from the dead, nor did anyone else. Jesus ethical concepts are no more unique than those of the Buddha, Lao Tzu, Aristotle, et. al. He certainly isn't worth killing or dying for, although doing so for your principles or loved ones certainly is.
There. I will see you in hell my friend,.
- I hope you realized your belief has no historical merit to it. There were many accounts of Jesus' resurrection.gramme
- teleos0
I disagree. I believe, as the Bible teaches, that he is the son of God clothed in human flesh. That he came to seek and save us because we cannot save ourselves. That on the cross, God's justice and love were satisfied in his substitutionary and atoning death. And that by looking to Christ, to the cross, we freely receive the forgiveness that we cannot earn. Because he took the wrath for us. He stood in our place. A propitiation, once and for all.
- This is hard to swallow because we are prideful humans. We don't like to admit that we can't do it.teleos
- TheBlueOne0
"I believe the resurrection of Christ is an immutable fact. There's just too much historical evidence to discard it."
"I believe" and "immutable fact" just don't FUCKING jive. DO you just NOT GET IT. Oh, wait, but Jesus riding dinosaurs is an "immutable fact" to you too...
There is no "historical evidence" other than a bunch of doctored eyewitness accounts. I can produce records of Zeus, Osiris (etched onto giant fucking stone monuments 5 stories high in fact that are a thousand years older than any mention of Jesus), bigfoot and the loch ness monster too. But of course that's not "evidence" is it...
I just don't get this Jesus fetish. It's a fetish you do realize it. You can't divorce what the guy said from the man. And it's the saddest most twisted part of your whole befuddled operation.
- No you cannot. You clearly haven't done your homework.teleos
- Read the works of secular historian Josephus, as a start.teleos
- Then consider the 12 cowards who suddenly were willing to die for what they witnessed.teleos
- And then subsequently turned the world upside down this message of hope in Christ.teleos
- Then move to a study of the 500+ witnesses of the risen Christ and all that recorded the event and how.teleos
- Then consider that the first NT report of the empty tomb came from women...teleos
- ...a big no-no in that culture at that time. If it were fabricated...teleos
- ...it would have been men who boldly discovered the empty tomb.teleos
- YAWN
dr_pangloss
- teleos0
"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
- 2 Corinthians 5:21
- ********0
glad to see this thread is still going strong... did you guys get any sleep?
- nah I woke up this morning and kicked it over again.mrdobolina
- mrdobolina0
but surely there are other books that say different things.
- but do those books have the unique message about our inability to save ourselves?teleos
- or are they a self-improvement plan, based on human performance?teleos
- Our egos LOVE those kinds of plans. (Which is why the good news of Christ...teleos
- I fail to see how my instant failure gives any creedence to it.mrdobolina
- ...is not likely a human contrived scheme)teleos
- And do those books have the central figure claiming to be fully God in human form?teleos
- and do they have the uncanny manuscript evidence of the biblical manuscripts?teleos
- Im not understanding how that makes these books any less...mrdobolina
- stop trying to convert me, you creep.mrdobolina
- LOL... the inevitable.teleos
- teleos0
"I once asked Jesus "How Much do you love me" He said "This Much." Then He stretched out his arms and died."
- omgmrdobolina
- And then the acid wore off.czawada
- greugh, you saccharine swine.detritus
- i'm not really sure what to do with this********
- detritus0
The fundamental reason I know that Jesus wasn't actually the son of God? None of the pictures of him indicate he had ginger hair, and we all know that the Messiah would be a ginga.
- my son is the second coming... sorry det youre out of a job********
- Dang. We can share, right? That's the Christian way, isn't it?detritus
- hmmm, well i'll ask him but he's 2, you might be able to distract him with a thomas the tank engine toy********
- Is it a doubting Thomas the Tank Engine toy?detritus
- my son is the second coming... sorry det youre out of a job
- teleos0
LOL!!!!!!!!
- neverblink0
teleos, you keep going on about humans and their egos, I would like to hear what you have to say on what I posted on the previous page: http://www.qbn.com/topics/544452…
- your wormhole to the past has stopped time... good job********
- I should have know that would happen... darn!neverblink
- your wormhole to the past has stopped time... good job
- TheBlueOne0
Look man you just keep pointing to "eyewitness accounts" not facts, although you claim "immutable facts" back you up. It's a circular firing squad. Whatever. I remembered why I don't bother talking to people of your ilk. You are a moron and a sheep. Thanks for your continued work in dumbing down humanity and distracting us from important issues while you geek out on this Jesus dude. Rock on. I got a life to lead here and my own Kingdom of God to inhabit that's in the here and now. Which a bunch of christians actually pointed out millenia ago, but since it was a politically unpopular interpretation of what Jesus said they were killed for it and their writings whitewashed and removed form the "official" record you so lovingly fawn over as the sole source of your "immutable facts".
- And for god sakes bring back the ignore feature...TheBlueOne
- whys is always gotta be 'white' washed?
racist********
- ephix0
christianity is like getting duped on an nigerian email scam, except you waste your entire life on it.
- Khurram0
There is no East and West in sorrow and fear. The problem is universal -- suffering and the ending of suffering. The cause of suffering is dependence and independence is the remedy.
- czawada0
Drink up boys.
- ********0
I wondered why this thread was so long... now I know