Moses was High
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- emecks0
the single biggest problem when discussing faith of any nature is that often believers of that faith feel compelled to preach the virtues of their faith. Indeed some christian churches expect this evangelism with the aim to convert new subjects.
I cannot understand why non-believers care if they're not being preached to. Often it is simply a desire to mock or ridicule those who have faith which is tantamount to bullying really.
My personal beliefs are my own, I will never share them here nor preach to anyone about any matter of faith. I strongly believe that far from "religion being the cause of hatred and war" it is the perversion of religion for ulterior motives that causes hatred and war, that and evangelism.
- thats sinner talk... burn in hell********
- haha i keed i keed********
- thats sinner talk... burn in hell
- Ranger0
Muktab
- TheBlueOne0
"My personal beliefs are my own, I will never share them here nor preach to anyone about any matter of faith."
Concur 100%. But if someone does start preaching (as opposed to having an open discussion of shared belief) then I feel obligated to criticize and opinionate.
- Khurram0
"Everything is uncaused. The world has no cause. Once you create for yourself a world in time and space, governed by causality, you are bound to search for and find causes for everything. You put the question and impose an answer. I see only consciousness, and know everything to be but consciousness. The entire universe contributes to the least thing. A thing is as it is, because the world is as it is. You see, you deal in gold ornaments and I -- in gold. Between the different ornaments there is no causal relation. When you re-melt an ornament to make another, there is no causal relation between the two. The common factor is the gold. But you cannot say gold is the cause. It cannot be called a cause, for it causes nothing by itself. It is reflected in the mind as 'I am', as the ornament's particular name and shape. Yet all is only gold. In the same way reality makes everything possible and yet nothing that makes a thing what it is, its name and form, comes from reality.
But why worry so much about causation? What do causes matter, when things themselves are transient? Let come what comes and let go what goes -- why catch hold of things and enquire about their causes? Of what use is the relative view to you? You are able to look from the absolute point of view -- why go back to the relative? Are you afraid of the absolute? There is only light and the light is all. Everything else is but a picture made of light. The picture is in the light and the light is in the picture. Life and death, self and not-self --- abandon all these ideas. They are of no use to you."hehe
- splendid. This concerns the dualistic nature of polar thought and word structure, revealed by wisdom/or acid.********
- splendid. This concerns the dualistic nature of polar thought and word structure, revealed by wisdom/or acid.
- CALLES0
i like turtles...
and huckabee
- emecks0
damn right TheBlueOne, if someone preaches at you they're openly asking for you to give your opinion (which is a big part of why I find preaching and attempts at conversion wrong).
- openly asking you to state your obviously inferior opinion so they can tell you your wrong is more the mindset********
- openly asking you to state your obviously inferior opinion so they can tell you your wrong is more the mindset
- harlequino0
As an ordained Discordian pope, I am 100$ infallible, and therefore feel comfortable saying this.
We all construct and live within our own reality tubes. And for each of us, those reality tubes are absolute. Unless you've constructed a flexible one.
teleos' and dobs' reality tubes are, to them, completely right. And they are both, therefore, completely right, yet they are both wrong to the other within those tubes. And again, they are completely right.
Now it gets sticky when you start laying your trip on another's tube. But within the "preacher's" tube, it's ok to do that. And he would be right. But wrong in the other tube. Which would be right. Hope that's clear.Now, as a Discordian pope, I have the power to ordain. And I ordain you all to be popes. All in this thread are now 100% infallible.
- ephix0
100$... always asking for money aren't you lot.
- Khurram0
Obviously, every thing experienced is an experience. And in every experience there arises the experiencer of it. Memory creates the illusion of continuity. In reality each experience has its own experiencer and the sense of identity is due to the common factor at the root of all experiencer-experience relations. Identity and continuity are not the same. Just as each flower has its own colour, but all colours are caused by the same light, so do many experiences appear in the undivided and indivisible awareness, each separate in memory, identical in essence. This essence is the root, the foundation, the timeless and spaceless 'possibility' of all experience.
- CALLES0
more on this
Researcher: Moses was tripping at Mount Sinai
By Ofri Ilani
"And all the people perceived the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the voice of the horn, and the mountain smoking." Thus the book of Exodus describes the impressive moment of the giving of the Torah on Mount Sinai.
The "perceiving of the voices" has been interpreted endlessly since these words were first written. When Professor Benny Shanon, professor of cognitive psychology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, reads the verse, he recalls a powerful hallucinatory experience he had when he visited the Amazon and drank a potion made from a plant called ayahuasca.
"One of the things that happens when you drink the potion is a visual experience created via sounds," he says.
Shanon presents a provocative theory in an article published this week in the philosophy journal Time and Mind. The religious ceremonies of the Israelites included the use of psychotropic materials that can found in the Negev and Sinai, he says. "I have no direct proof of this interpretation," and such proof cannot be expected, he says. However, "it seems logical that something was altered in people's consciousness. There are other stories in the Bible that mention the use of plants: for example, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden."
Shanon, former head of the Hebrew University psychology department, said his first experience with ayahuasca was in 1991 when he was invited to a religious ceremony in the northern Amazon in 1991 in Brazil. "I experienced visions that had spiritual-religious connotations," he says. Since that time, he has used it hundreds of times, and has published a book about the plant.
"Hypotheses have been around for 20 years connecting the beginning of religions with psychoactive materials," Shanon says. He believes the Israelites used two plants in Sinai and the Negev: one of them is wild rue, a hallucinogen used by the Bedoin to this day. However this plant is not identified with any plant mentioned in the Bible.
The acacia tree also has psychedelic properties, Shanon says, which the Israelites could have used. The acacia is mentioned frequently in the Bible, and was the type of wood of which the Ark of the Covenant was made. According to Shanon, he drank a potion prepared from a species of acacia while he was in South America, which caused similar experiences to those produced by the ayahuasca.
Shanon also sees signs of a hallucinogenic vision in the story of the burning bush.
"Moses 'looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed,'" Shanon quotes from Exodus 3:2. Time passes differently when under the influence of the plant, he notes. "That's why Moses thought the bush was not consumed. It should have been burned in the time he thought had passed. And in that time, he heard God speaking to him."
"But not everyone who uses a plant like this brings the Torah," Shanon concedes. "For that, you have to be Moses."
- Khurram0
"My actual experience is not different. It is my evaluation and attitude that differ. I see the same world as you do, but not the same way. There is nothing mysterious about it. Everybody sees the world through the idea he has of himself. See yourself as you are and you will see the world as it is -- a single block of reality, indivisible, indescribable. Your own creative power projects upon it a picture and all your questions refer to the picture. Gods and their universes come and go, avatars follow each other in endless succession, and in the end we are back at the source. I talk only of the timeless source of all the gods with all their universes, past, present and future."
- TheBlueOne0
The earth and moon seen from Mars:
I get more sublime awe and humility and enlightenment about the Human Condition (our limitations AND abilities) using the tools of science at our disposal in the last few hundred years than all the muck and mire of primitive religions that so many are trying to drag us back into...
- a mote of dust suspended in a shaft of sunlightdr_pangloss
- did you really have to use the term "Human Condition"?ephix
- Yes. And I capitalized it as well for emphasis. Pretty slick, eh?TheBlueOne
- ********0
What this all about then?
- Khurram0
mmmmm.... this reminds me..
"The personality (vyakti) is but a product of imagination. The self (vyakta) is the victim of this imagination. It is the taking yourself to be what you are not that binds you. The person cannot be said to exist on its own rights; it is the self that believes there is a person and is conscious of being it. Beyond the self (vyakta) lies the unmanifested (avyakta), the causeless cause of everything. Even to talk of re-uniting the person with the self is not right, because there is no person, only a mental picture given a false reality by conviction. Nothing was divided and there is nothing to unite."
BAM!
- ********0
on the jesus level, we are all the same being, so we're just arguing with ourselves
- Heretic!!! You'll be burned or excommunicated or shunned at the luncheon..whatever is the hip thing these days..TheBlueOne
- as opposed to arguing with something other than ourselveS?ephix
- I feel crucifixion has always driven the point homeJesusChrist
- "Nail some sense into HIM I say!"Mimio
- JesusChrist0
ok it seems we all need to just simmer down.
everyone here is my child and you are all entitled to your opinions
smooooochies!
- teleos0
"Look man you just keep pointing to "eyewitness accounts" not facts, although you claim "immutable facts" back you up. It's a circular firing squad. Whatever. I remembered why I don't bother talking to people of your ilk. You are a moron and a sheep. Thanks for your continued work in dumbing down humanity and distracting us from important issues while you geek out on this Jesus dude. Rock on. I got a life to lead here and my own Kingdom of God to inhabit that's in the here and now. Which a bunch of christians actually pointed out millenia ago, but since it was a politically unpopular interpretation of what Jesus said they were killed for it and their writings whitewashed and removed form the "official" record you so lovingly fawn over as the sole source of your "immutable facts". "
blueOne: it is telling how you inevitably end up making personal attacks and get insulting. I think you are dragged around by your emtions a bit much, which clouds your thinking.
It is unfortunate that you have no clue about how we know what is historically reliable and what isn't. You seem oblivious to science of textual criticism. With regard to the resurrection of Christ, you continuously employ strawman tactics. I really think some cursory investigation on the subject would benefit you when talking about this...
http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1…
http://www.ntgateway.com/resourc…Rather than making a circular argument (i have no idea how you deduced that one), I am making a logical conclusion based on historical evidence.
And what is my "ilk"? You claim to not bother to talk my "ilk", but you always do. And rather than "dumbing down humanity", I believe I'm sharing with my fellow humans the most liberating truth they could ever hear: that they don't have to be slaves to their sin nature and that there is eternal hope and life abundant to be experienced here and now.
No I'm no sheep. I'm a critical thinker with the tendency to be skeptical of ideas. This is why I studied the evidence for the resurrection and conlcuded it happened just as the Bible said it did.
- teleos0
"I get more sublime awe and humility and enlightenment about the Human Condition (our limitations AND abilities) using the tools of science at our disposal in the last few hundred years than all the muck and mire of primitive religions that so many are trying to drag us back into"
Science is based on metaphysical assumptions and positions. We assume that there are absolute laws at work which allow us to derive conclusions which we believe are logical, etc... I see the sciences as a subset of Theology. The sciences only make sense within a certain overarching metaphysical presupposition.
And it certainly isn't biblical Christianity that is trying to drag us into muck and mire (you get close to the slippery slope fallacy here). Keep in mind that it was Christians who made some of the most significant scientific discoveries.
- Build upon the knowledge of Phonetians, Greek, Egyptians, Zoroastrians, Hindu, etc.neverblink
- lol @ science being a subset of theology. Theology and metaphysics aren't the same thing dickhead.Khurram
- ephix0
teleos, you changed your name, you have been here before under a different name I can tell.
- mrdobolina0
THE DISCIPLER!!!!!!! He wears a hood and a cape.