Brexit
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- deathboy1
it seems to me that nothing is decided. It has potential to go great(for UK) or terrible. and every headlines right now is purely propagandha. most likely the gov + banker to scare back to status quo and shake any notion of independence. Its strange how much media is saying its a bad thing but in reality it neither so far. Currency aside i find the notion in all of history so many people refusing independence. its a weird phenomenon. theyre liek a beaten spouse who wont call the police on her husbnad
- yep, the Leave side had no plan at all, their main campaign messages have been shown to be lies, Boris is avoiding Article 50, Scot want a new referendum &lowimpakt
- remaining is actually not refusing independence. the UK is part of europe and the world. and especiallyd_gitale
- people are saying they didn't know what they were voting for etc etc makes me think it will be a political fudge and nothing will happen.lowimpakt
- nowadays everything is so interconnected as it has never been before. so if the UK is out they will still be dependent on decisions made by the EUd_gitale
- but without having a say in it.d_gitale
- Sturgeon is now saying Scotland could veto a UK exit?Ranger
- I've been looking but can't find a quote i read by a prominent leaver that said that the UK couldn't invoke article 50 if Scotland voted remain.kingsteven
- I think they all need to agree and she's saying she could refuse to pass it.Ranger
- Aye, but I remember Boris or one of them other cunts stating that in a *it would be morally wrong* sense it during the campaign...kingsteven
- Seems like anything said in the campaign can be disregarded and that is one of the worst pointsRanger
- Politicians should require a license or something to operate and get points/ have it taken away if it turns out they have liedRanger
- Ranger1
The re-run petition which now has over 3 million signatures was actually started by a leave supporter who thought they were going to lose.
The number on that thing is going up so fast, not slowing down yet.
- i signed on friday but only got the confirmation of email address thing through last night...kingsteven
- Maybe there's a massive backlog and it is processing them then. Might explain why it is going up so consistently.Ranger
- hahah, you didn't convey his rage... hilarious! http://www.huffingto…kingsteven
- http://www.bbc.com/n…IRNlun6
- "But a number of people on Twitter have pointed out that many people signing it appear to be doing so from outside the UK"IRNlun6
- like my client who lives in colombia but an uk citizen?sted
- Fax_Benson7
For Hayoth and others who don't live under they tyranny of the EU but think they know all about it.
The EU is not wholly unelected. Proposals made by the EU Commission have to be approved by the democratically elected MEPs. Members of the Commission are chosen by democratically elected member state governments. I'm not saying that's a perfect system but it's far from how you perceive it.
The idea that the UK's laws are dictated to them by Europe is a myth. Have a look at the UK government's policy initiatives since the last general election and tell me that there we in thrall to a socialist dictator. The fact that we just held a referendum and voted to leave should give you a bit of a clue as to how strong the EU's iron grip is.
The idea that a European Superstate is inevitable is a myth. There isn't the political will for it to happen across Europe. The rise of right and far-right groups means the opposite is the case.
There are many things wrong with the EU. It is overly bureaucratic and and un-transparent. The Euro isn't working for the countries of southern Europe. It has huge, existential problems but it is a reality, and simply saying that it would be better if it didn't exist isn't going to get us very far.
Ultimately, it will need to reform or it will die. It might not have survived another recession. We may have just triggered that recession. If the EU is going to fail without causing a global financial crisis and political turmoil across Europe, it needs to be allowed to manage that death slowly and peacefully.
The UK and the EU are inextricably linked - whatever the UK's position in it. To think that pulling out like this will protect us from Europe's problems is insane. We've just exacerbated them and ours, with no plan and no thought as to how this affects Scotland, Northern Ireland, the rest of Europe, our own citizens, or anyone else, in the name of reclaiming a sovereignty we already had.
- Well saidRanger
- Barring the hysterics of the Remain supporters, this is the slow and peaceful death of the EU.IRNlun6
- Its turned into a basket case if you look at from economics. holding back progress in how its run, functions. its going down, it wont last but before it goes ityurimon
- going to burn through alot of productivity and money.yurimon
- I think it's worth trying to reform but we have no say in that or anything else nowFax_Benson
- < this 100%. very well put.fadein11
- yurimon - read this post here and make this your goal in internet etiquette / knowledge. This is how it is done.fadein11
- kingsteven5
comment on the Guardian website, sums up Boris Johnson's current situation quite well...
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over – Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was “never”. When Michael Gove went on and on about “informal negotiations” ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
- I do believe Boris didn't intend to win this thing and just wanted to go for some easy support figures in places where tories are not strong.Ranger
- it must've seemed like a good idea at the timeRanger
- Sad but true, Some of the destruction already started through larger EU based corps in hiring and moving.yurimon
- For long term thinking its better to leave, but there has to be a good economic plan in place in place for the chaos. this where strong UK leadership is keyyurimon
- ^ which we do not have - the PM has resigned and the opposition leader is about to get kicked out. And the Brexit 'winners' look terrified that they won.fadein11
- @ranger - yes you are right. and the strange absence of him over this weekend is proof of that.fadein11
- I saw this on Reddit yesterday and loved it straight away. What a clusterfuck this all is.detritus
- Do you have to be born in the UK to be a leader in the UK? Boris needs a visit from Tony Robbins.yurimon
- BORIS if you are reading this. Call Tony Robbins. Who the fuck names a Brit Boris anyway. WTF!yurimon
- I doubt he is reading thisRanger
- IRNlun6-6
I see many on the left here in the US mourning with their British counter parts for leaving a trade pact. I suppose they'll now be supporting the TTP as well?
- He's right, guys. All trade deals are identical. You must support all of them or none of them. Because they're all exactly the same.nb
- ^
LOL!oey - EU is way more than a trade deal - please - stop commenting on stuff you know little about. The vote wasn't just about the EU - it was a vote about nationalismfadein11
- which is the scary thing about the result.fadein11
- There is a groundswell across Europe against TTIP and serveral countries are talking about referendums on the subject. But now, the trade deals are wholly...Wolfboy
- in the hands of the very party in the UK who want exactly that kind of deal for the country. If anyone voted out because of TTIP, they have fucked up royally.Wolfboy
- yepfadein11
- I meant TPP, so post fail on that part. TPP would be a direct competitor with the EU so the comparison is fair.IRNlun6
- It just wouldn't have the perks of visa-less travel and or the same economic mobility.IRNlun6
- TTIP on the other hand, who knows. Now that the 5th largest economy left the EU, the EU may be more pressed to make a deal. With less incentive for the US.IRNlun6
- EU is like woman living with 100's of cats. you know you cant keep em all but you try to herd them anyway.yurimon
- 6th largest economy, it's already shrunk enough to fall behind France.Wolfboy
- ernexbcn1
Spain is voting today again since the last election in december the parties couldn't sit down and negotiate to form a government.
The options available are the usual suspects ridden with corruption scandals, and some leftist-commie crackheads that have real ties with the bolivarian revolution from Venezuela.
- fadein111
Oh the irony - whatever happens we will still want access to the single market and the conditions of that will be free movement of EU citizens. So now we will have pretty much the same conditions (but worse) without any influence on what the EU does... What a massive fuck up this referendum was. Oh David, what a legacy. And Boris - you now know the reality and it looks like you don't have the balls to go with it. The world really must think we are idiots. Thank god I was one of the 48%.
- This is such a massive clusterfuck - I reckon there'll blood on the streets once the Leave electrorate realise how fundamentally they've been misled.detritus
- I'd be very surprised if Gove and Johnson made it through the year without at least a black eye between them from some punter.detritus
- yep - defo.fadein11
- Looks like the UK has the upper hand here. EU is teetering, especially after this vote. They should want to maintain relationships.IRNlun6
- EU was going down already. UK could be lucky in the long term. the list of problems are greater then the list of benefits.yurimon
- Cant be reformed. Seems people cant figure out how to keep bureaucrats and retards out of important powerful positions.yurimon
- EU is not teetering - they have made their positions v.clear - they want us out ASAP. Yurimon - you are repeating yourself again.fadein11
- you are not helping fadein, focus. I have feeling they want to make UK an example of leaving.yurimon
- How do you figure UK has the upper hand? One country on its own has a lot more to lose than 27 others.yuekit
- In terms of incentives, EU wants to prevent same thing happening again. So they will likely offer very unfavorable terms to Britain to make an example.yuekit
- yepfadein11
- "The EU will treat Britain like Greece"
http://www.telegraph…yuekit - They're just taking advantage of the hope for a referendum. The EU is under the pressure of other nations leaving as well.IRNlun6
- On top of the problems which led to the referendum in the first, acting vindictively could hurt the EU even more politically.IRNlun6
- There is more concern of a country leaving and prospering than anything else. typical ruling politics. this makes EU a bit imperial in nature as it plays theyurimon
- role of a peacemaker. fckrs.yurimon
- Your link from the notoriously-Euroskep... Telegraph utterly fails to explain how the UK will be treated like Greece, ukit. Our situation is not Greece's.detritus
- Their Euroskepticism didn't seem to carry over to this article. Of course the UK isn't close to being Greece but they make a convincing case that it will beyuekit
- difficult to secure a generous deal given all the distrust and incentives among the various countries. All 27 of which will need to approve a deal.yuekit
- kingkong1
- 3:36sted
- he was 17 years an MEP. Paid €1.6 million in salary alone.
fuck him.lowimpakt - lol, low. its called a debate. plus its only a question if he right or not. very good arguments put forth. bravo.yurimon
- he helped orchestrate the deception of the Leave voters.lowimpakt
- question aside of the deception of the exit which we agree is lame. whether the arguments to leave are stronger than the arguments to stay.yurimon
- lame? i thought you were celebrating.pango
- Yurimon, the arguments put forward by the leave side have been shown to be lies.lowimpakt
- I suspect because he speaks with conviction and has a posh accent you think he is correct.lowimpakt
- reasonable argument but talks like he is living in the '60 or '70. great motivation speak, deff. has a vision, I would say that he should run for PM.sted
- He's very convincing, but when a fundamental point of his is "We're a merchant and maritime nation" I have to question what age he's living in.detritus
- We were, but our banks subsidised Korean shipyards and decades of political mishandling's neutered our industrial export capabilities.detritus
- All we really trade now is other people's money.detritus
- that's what I was talking about :)sted
- As to the EU being 36% of the world then economy vs. 17% now are a bit disingenuous too—does that take account of how much the global economy's expanded? China?detritus
- * "36% of the world economy"detritus
- lowimpakt2
Rupert Murdoch's Sky News have the most comprehensive report on the post Brexit plan of the Leave side.
- eryx0
The other day I heard the best thing. I am not sure who said it but the quote went.
"we can now say we are an independent united kingdom"
WTF Independent and united in the same sentence, made me laugh. Nothing united about them anymore and kingdom is a shitty name for a country.
- united states = independent states unitedhotroddy
- #poundlandkingsteven
- detritus0
Edinburgh should welcome all the banks that may end up wanting to flee London — HSBC has Scottish roots, after all.
- thats true, never thought of that.microkorg
- it struck me last night. Scotland is English-speaking, outward-looking, EU-friendly - has historical roots with America and Asia. Why not?detritus
- We've [a terrible] history with Panama too - we could make use of them for all the dodgier stuff too.detritus
- It makes sense and would be amusing but Frankfurt, and even Dublin, have a huge headstartFax_Benson
- nb2
http://www.independent.co.uk/new…
Brexit: Wave of racial abuse and hate crime reported after EU referendum.
Ugly shit.
- Did you make that sign?yurimon
- Obviously I did not. Why don't you go find somewhere else to troll, you ignorant prick? Honestly, I don't understand why you bother trolling here.nb
- NB why don't you call the wah wah police.Hayoth
- Great. Ignorant feel their power now. Power of abuse.Beeswax
- Its def the work of a designer.yurimon
- Written by a really bad copywriter...obvious...utopian
- nb, yuri visited England once and therefore has every right to claim full knowledge and understanding of the situationmonospaced
- yurimon0
HAaha. this is great. 10x more sophisticated than trump for sure.
- https://www.youtube.…
this one is better. gotta Love it.yurimon - I dont mean to be Ruude... hahaayurimon
- What did that guy do to him, aside from being a convenient target for his grandstanding?yuekit
- He is an unelected dish rag..yurimon
- We'll have to wait till Sept for see Trump give it to Hilary. I don't care who you are in the US, everyone has always wanted to tell a US politician "you suck!"robotron3k
- yurimon, Farage has never once been elected to the UK government even though he has tried 5 times.lowimpakt
- he only exists as a thing because of the EUlowimpakt
- Maybe but it doesnt take away from the problems.yurimon
- How many salary does Nigel Farage take home from the EU every year?yuekit
- He's literally pretending not to know who the president of his own organization is to pander to ignorant voters back home.yuekit
- Pretty much exactly like Trump in other words, only appears smarter to you because he has a British accent.yuekit
- https://www.youtube.…
- _niko9
hehe
- Beeswax0
Start stocking Scotch Americans.
- ETM0
^
- Fax_Benson0
Oh, look, Boris Johnson has finally reappeared and reached out to clam the nerves of ordinary voters by rowing back on his campaign message via his £250k a week column in The Telegraph - after spending the weekend playing cricket at the Earl of Spencer's country estate.
Maybe things won't change much after all.
- *calm, although my nerves are pretty clammedFax_Benson
- He's a nasty bag of shit and all too easily shows his true colours when backed into a corner and called out on his tomfuckery.face_melter
- Never forget his relationship with Guppy and candidly discussing inflicting serious harm to a journalist.face_melter
- scumbag - he CANNOT become PM.fadein11
- When Boris and Cameron were together at Eton, Cameron only made it to prefect, while Johnson was head boy. Johnson always felt superior to Cameron as a resultFax_Benson
- Johnson was more popular and held key student posts when they both went to Oxford.Fax_Benson
- It was only when Cameron's political careeer took off - and particularly when he became PM, that Johnson's own political ambitions really surfacedFax_Benson
- This is a revenge game he's playing because, if you come from that background, you can.Fax_Benson
- How can he become prime minister anyway? Nobody voted for him. We voted to leave the EU then it leads to this. It's fucked up.Ianbolton
- I'd be interested to see just how many people want further right-wing conservative politics in the UKIanbolton
- oey0
Too many mushrooms?
