Getting older and working in design
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- jaylarson2
Dylan Thomas, 1914 - 1953
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.- i've gotten into photography these days to supplement my income as an art director/designer—jaylarson
- i make way more as an ad/d but the work can be slim these days. too bad, i'd like to be more of a design director than a CD, dunno if i'll get bored or morejaylarson
- gigs as a photographer where i can jump ship and shoot full time.
it's like watching the tides & knowing when to jumpjaylarson - <THISnecromation
- dee-dubs0
Another interesting thing I'm noticing from a lot of these replies is many references to darks times and/or battling depression.
I remember once reading somewhere (around the time Robin Williams committed suicide and there were many articles on mental issues) that "creative" types are much more susceptible to this kind of mental health issue due to introspective thinking and thought patterns associated with being creative.
"Psychologists have been fascinated by the potential link for decades. The earliest and most rudimentary studies examined eminent people across fields including literature and the arts.
These studies found that creatives had an unusually high number of mood disorders. Charles Dickens, Tennessee Williams, and Eugene O'Neill all appeared to suffer from clinical depression. So too did Ernest Hemingway, Leo Tolstoy and Virginia Woolf. Sylvia Plath famously took her own life by sticking her head in an oven while her two children slept."taken from :
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/2…Apologies for kinda going off topic as it is not career related but also seems relevant. Seems we are have picked a tricky career path to maintain over long period of time and we are also likely to really be mentally affected by it too.
- all creative fields suffer from this - look at music. self medicating, self destructive behaviour is rife...fadein11
- no offense but this is v.old news.fadein11
- still in topic with the discussionBen99
- is it the career choice that preceeds this? or is it an internal malaise that leads someone to be creative?monNom
- creative brains have a tendency to be v.introspective / reflective / over analytical - which leads to a propensity towards depression / self destructivefadein11
- behaviour. Creative brains end up in creative fields (obviously).fadein11
- consider diet, lifestyle, mostly.yurimon
- Horp4
I'm 45. I started in graphic design for print at 15, and I gave it up around 2005 with a sideways segue into illustration. I saw the same thing happening to illustration as design so I lost interest and got out (1. It was overpopulated and therefore the value plummeted 2. It started to get invaded by a lot of computer complexity that I didn't wish to learn 3. It became very client driven as opposed to creative-leading).
I dropped all creative pursuits entirely in 2009 and have never been back. I shifted into an area of consultancy and being seen as an 'expert' in an area that involves cultural insight, strategy, and material culture analysis. It was the best leap sideways I could make with the skills that I could repackage and transfer somewhere new.
What I know is that I could never go back. I wouldn't earn what I earn from being in any of my previous roles (designer, creative director, art director, illustrator), I am definitely too old to learn the kinds of tricks it requires to survive now, and life is a lot less stressful once you step away from 'creative'.
However, I couldn't say exactly that I'm happy. There's a whole lot of feel good self-identity stuff in defining yourself as somebody who makes their world work via creativity, and you simply do not get that when you step out of that mind-state and into an office/corporate environment where you are not judged, evaluated or appreciated for your creative production. In many ways I feel like Ray Liotta at the end of Goodfells.. a shclub, standing on his doorstep in his slippers, missing the energy and excitement of the old life... but I'm secure, I have a good income, my employers really value me, and life is generally a lot more stable and less fraught.
I would never go back... I wouldn't want to even if I could, but I will always look back fondly on those times, which have now largely gone... or at least evolved into something radically different.
- Spelling error: I meant Schlub, not S-Club7Horp
- Interesting. Are you in a large city? Who are your clients?formed
- I've often wondered about a similar transition.formed
- S-Club7 probably have the same feelings.Fax_Benson
- I'm in London. I work for a consultancy so we have a very broad range of clients. Some are very interesting and exciting, some are terrible.Horp
- Interested in how you went about making the move sideways?dee-dubs
- I've always believed that if you identify with your core skills rather than your vocation, you can go almost anywhere, even if it takes a couple of leaps.Horp
- So you have a full time gig at a consulting company? I like your thinkingformed
- I always thought you were THE horp lolfadein11
- oops sorry my mistake - had a moment there.fadein11
- Sounds like you're a little happier than before, at least Horp old fruit. You seemed to be carrying an ever present feeling of inadequacy and...set
- ... the impending doom of being fired at any minute. Are you feeling like they value your shizzle?set
- Also I really wanted to lay down an S club 7 joke but I have nothing.set
- I think I'm a little more settled into this reality, and I've been doing it long enough that the private feeling of being an imposter has faded...Horp
- ... I don't know for sure that I'm happier, but I'm less unsure now. As designers we combine personal passions with business. Divorce that, and you get two...Horp
- distinct entities. I work, and it pays well, and it isn't awful, but I don't LOVE it. It doesn't define me or make me happy. So I now pursue other things that..Horp
- bring happiness. I have an old racing car I work on and drive. It's what I love. As a designer, we tend to love 'designy stuff'.Horp
- ghandolf4
"Never tie your self-worth, to your net worth". ~ Erik Wahl
So far, reading your ages, I've got you all beat. Although I'm not a designer, or 'web-ist', I am a freelancer. I've done alright for myself over the years, but recently as others have remarked, things are suddenly not the same, and my work, (at least for me) has begun to seriously dry up. It's really difficult to chart a new path when you're older. I've had ups and downs, good years and bad ones in my line of work, but this is different now.
Losing my job years ago, was actually the best thing that ever happened to me. It set a new template for me to grow and become someone and something I never thought possible.
I've had a bought in the past with depression as well. That was a very dark and difficult time for me. I got past it, with help, just as you are doing. (Take care of yourself!) After all, this is just work. In the larger scheme of things, ...life, children, experiences, etc., this is manageable. These are bumps in the road, meant to define you, to bring out your best, to bubble up what's deep inside of who you are, and who you can be.
Hang in there kids. I wish I could tell you it will get better, but in reality it only becomes different...and sometimes that can be better. I wish you only the best of luck in whatever it is that you do from here going forward.
Also, this is the best thread I've ever seen here on QBN/Newstoday.
Have a great day, Mates!
- Ben990
i think this is the most important thread i have ever read on QBN ever.
- everBen99
- exactly, first thread ever that didn't start or end as a jokeArchitectofFate
- this is a really serious topicBen99
- Many of us have been here since the start of "digital" and will be the first gen to retire in it. We should be writing a book or memoir!formed
- ^ Im surprised there hasn't been more written about this in "creative" pressdee-dubs
- ArchitectofFate - agree matenylon
- bort3
Man it's nice to hear other people are also thinking about this stuff. This has been on my mind for a couple years now. I'm in my mid 30's now and work in digital design. Mainly marketing websites and little apps.
I've reached a point where I don't think I can handle working in client service design anymore. The fear of ageism is definitely a huge motivator to get out of design altogether and the nature of client work has really worn me down after all these years.
Moving to the product design side is a definite possibility but I can't help but think ageism would exist there too (perhaps to a lesser degree than advertising and design studios).
I've very seriously been considering leaving design altogether in the next year or so and moving into a field like electrical engineering or healthcare. It's kind of scary giving up something you've worked years to build but sometimes you just gotta take your medicine and make the leap.
- I wouldn't change careers unless you really wanted to. Ageism is probably more likely in groups that are more conservative than ours.CyBrainX
- Ben991
i would like to buy a micro house somewhere close to nature and live a simple life with low expenses. I just need an internet connection, a good computer and some money to go on a trip once a year or every 2 years. I would totally grow my own food too.Dream dream.
- Also my dreamjonnypompita
- tesla powerwall duuudeArchitectofFate
- georges has a plot of land...Gnash
- off grid dream (but with internet lol).fadein11
- I'll just build my own on my playstation10 in 10-15years and hang out in virtual space.uan
- @fadein11 i've never talked about living off the gridBen99
- This would get so boring after 2 days. Literally nothing to do.iCanHazQBN
- plenty to do.and i dont talk about living in a mountain. I would live in a small or medium village close to civilisation. we have plenty of that here.Ben99
- CyBrainX0
I haven't really suspected age getting in my way until a couple of years ago when I turned 50. I didn't have any issue in my 30s. I can get freelance frequently enough but I'm getting turned down for full time time jobs I know I'm more than qualified for even before I can talk about money.
- necromation1
41 and still sticking my dick in the mashed potato... The key is to always make yourself relevant.
Most designers just ride waves, i just make em.
- The point is that you can't and you don't and you won't stop.CyBrainX
- ^^^^Bingo.necromation
- versus4
New here.
38 and have freelanced for 12 years, in-house at various places before that. Mainly identity and print work - never made the transition to digital and now regretting it as opportunities seem to be thinning/priced out by younger guns as mentioned by previous posters. Have identified as a designer my whole working life and have no idea what else I could do.
Am good at design, but no real business or self-promotion acumen is a weakness I acknowledge.
I also think working alone has been my downfall and put me in a very dark place mentally. I would urge younger designers not to isolate themselves if possible.
The stories here of people making moves into different areas are inspiring, thank you.
- < agree with working solo comment, can get very isolating at times.dee-dubs
- utopian2
bottom line...if you do wireframes you are hired.
- jonnypompita0
I am a 36 year old interactive art director/designer who is also starting to feel burned out with the industry. It's just getting harder and harder to give a shit anymore. I have never held a job outside of creative/advertising so it's scary to even think about doing something else with my life. Been freelance in NYC for the last 6 years and I've been observing alot of the same things mentioned in this thread. The employees at agencies getting younger. The race to the bottom in terms of budgets and timelines. The chaotic approach to getting digital work done. The awful clients, it's really soul killing. At this point I'm going to try to milk every penny I can before I make my exit in the next 4 years. So far it's been working for me.
Ideally I would love to work in a product based business or even client side in a managerial role. I still love design and would love to continue doing it, just not in an agency environment. I f*cking hate advertising agencies and the holding company bean counters that run things now. I hate the politics and the people who work in these places. I do it only for the money now. Having health insurance through my wife allows me to continue freelancing until I can make my exit.
- The key is to save enough money for a rainy day. Too many people live paycheck to paycheck and thus have no options.jonnypompita
- epigraph1
36 here. I was kinda floating in the wind in college and got snagged by graphic design. I enjoyed it immensely as a student, but the realities of making it career of it burnt me out in only a few years.
It quickly became demoralizing to spend so much mental energy and bandwidth on making some stupid piece of shit product or service look pretty for such a little payoff. Luckily I got fired and was forced to find something more suitable.
Now designing stuff for my own business and cherry picking super small projects for colleagues and friends fulfills my desire to design.
- bklyndroobeki0
Jot down some ideas and sell something (clever/simple) on
http://society6.com or etsy.com
- the_reverend0
mid 30s doing advertising design (been same place last 8 years). as I look around I'm probably one of the old ones. I expect to be replaced by younger and cheaper version of myself sooner or later. at which point i probably won't be able to find a similar paying job and will be fucked trying to pay my mortgage.
- martinadolfsson0
Really interesting discussion, I'm a photographer and feel like I'm facing many of the same issues, - not only am I getting older but the industry has gone through a massive change over the last decade. In order to survive past 45 I'm trying to diversify my business into a commercial side for commissioned and licensing work and a more experimental arm where I'm working on longer projects such as books, short films and app development.
Working in a fiercely competative environment -I think the only way to stay relevant past a certain age is to work on short and long term projects parallel. Hope I doesn't sound like a jerky motivational speaker, just my two cents.
- My brother in law, a photographer, just got laid off and is now working towards getting his teaching credentials.Knuckleberry
- What is your specialty? I'm a photographer as well.epigraph
- I'd imagine photographers have been moving into video as well.CyBrainX
- Yes, a lot of people are definitely trying to learn video. However, clients doesn't seem to have figured out how to produce captivating video content yet.martinadolfsson
- formed0
Another thing to consider is other professions. I came from architecture, where the most famous don't do much until they are in their 50's. There's lots of reasons for it, but the point is that creativity doesn't die, it's always there.
Frank Gehry is 86 years old and just design Facebook's new buildings. I could list more and more. Point being the only way it dies is if you let it.
- I think architecture and graphic design are two different animals in this respect. Age and reputation are important for both but for an average designer withoutfadein11
- a big reputation the work may dry up in middle to old age. It's a trend driven industry and unless a trend-maker age is an issue.fadein11
- Pavement Lyric: Architects are like virgins without an itch they cannot scratch. Never build a building till your 50, what kind of life is that?Knuckleberry
- lol, I used to listen to that just after grad school...and when I switched careersformed
- but also keep in mind most architects sucks, just like any other profession...I was just trying to offer some hope ;-)formed
- Bluejam0
damn good read ...
- MrBixler0
Recommended reading and guides for life:
- Ben991
- I bring something into the world every day in the morning on the toilet._niko
- ^ genuinely made me LOL this morn. love school yard humourdee-dubs
- I'm being pedantic about a turd joke but that's not creativity, it's just regurgitating what already exists.set
- Now, if you did a shit without eating anything first... THAT'S creativity.set
- Not a bad quote considering he's the only one of these people I don't really like.CyBrainX
- @set if you do a shit without eating thats a biological issue and not being creative is the least of your problems.Wolfboy