Scottish independence
- Started
- Last post
- 363 Responses
- rosko_picachu0
So essentially it's a whole new industry we can then use to tailor our education system around.
- babaganush0
Bum drizzle
Actually the US economy is essentially a ponzi sch
That sits at the top of the tree. With the US treasury constantly printing money or IOU offsetting future debts for international trade. But that's a bigger argument about 'currency' economies versus 'money' economies like we used to have when tangible assets like gold were what underpinned trading.But seeing as we all have no option but to trade with a currency based economy. Or unless the utopia of independent Scotland becomes a world revered self-sustaining biosphere, there will be no choice but to accept debt liability if you want to sit at a table
In the EU or elsewhere
- babaganush0
Any how Rosko, bumdrizzle, Chossy. Enjoyed some stimulated debate with you. I appreciate your pashmina and admire the spirit - I just can't agree (whether via news channel bias or not) that the stats line up to make it better f
- Or UK or Scotland. But good luck and if Scotland votes 'yes' I'm sure everyone will do their bestbabaganush
- Pashmina!!! Passion :)babaganush
- rosko_picachu0
Like i said some pages ago, the idea is to use the oil for good and we begin to look at what the future really can be in terms of selling oil at the right price to fund our own energy infrastructure to fuel the whole of the UK.
The currency fear factor is more psychological and political than anything that is based on economics.
No currency union slows down our development of such massive energy systems and job creation, at the same time, it single handedly wrecks the rest of the UK economy more than Scotland going independent. The people you trust versus the people you're told not to trust. The news you see versus the news you don't see.
Food is another huge one, i know someone who sells agricultural lighting setups from Phillips and yeah, generally people up here are starting to think, right, this is what we can do when we're forced to be responsibly competitive with creative thinking thrown in as well.
Could you imagine Alisdair Darling, Miliband or Cameron coming up to Scotland and having a debate about renewable energy?
Haha, never gonna happen. But if it happened today and neither side was allwoed to prepare a script, who would talk openly about it, and who would be humming and hawing?
- Wolfboy0
So now the likes of RBS and Lloyds are saying they'll move to London if it's a Yes vote.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/busine…
How do you Yes voters see this? Good riddance to institutions that were a big part of the recession, it could even make a fresh start easier?
Or a blow with established businesses not showing a high level of confidence in an independent future (certainly in the short to medium term)?
Or something different?
- hans_glib0
that's just noise created by the uncertainty. nothing is known/certain until the decision is made.
ignore
- bumdrizzle0
I'm not massively surprised that RBS and Lloyds (both largely owned by the UK gov) are saying exactly what the UK gov would like them to say.
It's still unclear wether it is a brass plaque or operations - most of which are already based in London - they are talking about. So the actual impact on the Scottish economy in the event of a relocation is difficult to speculate on. (I used to work for RBS btw, and if both mainframes are still based at Fettes and Gogaburn it's not exactly straightforward for them to up sticks and move operations).
You could argue that the banks trying to influence democratic process is one of the reasons Scotland might want to run her own affairs.
- yeah, that's why I mentioned it maybe being seen as a positive by the Yes vote. A real clean break from the old system.Wolfboy
- bumdrizzle0
Just skimmed through the thread again, and whilst not wanting to engage SEM's obviously xenophobic position, I just wanted to point out the ramble about London's population size was either deliberately disingenuous or woefully ignorant.
Have a look at expenditure per head on infrastructure in England.
- the story - http://www.theguardi…lowimpakt
- Figures are for set 2 projects, not on going rates. Highly misleading out of context.sem
- kingkong0
I saw this quote on the BBC, which more or less sums it for me. Incredibly angry that as of next week someone who regards himself as British will no longer be so.
"I run a business in Manchester. My Mum was Welsh, my Dad was English and my name is Irish (my Dad was born to Irish immigrants) but my country is the UK. I have no reason to feel connected to Scotland but if there is a Yes vote I will feel like my identity has been ripped apart. Scotland is part of MY country. My problem with the "Scottish" referendum is that it's a "UK" issue, so what gives the Scots the sole authority to break up MY country and to make me redefine my identity? Why didn't I get a chance to vote on "do you want to break up the UK" or "should Scotland stay in the UK"?"
- You really think 55 million people should be allowed to decide the future of a much smaller nation?bumdrizzle
- That both parties need to agree to end a union, that one can be kept against the will of its people?bumdrizzle
- is it fair that 50% of a nation should decide its future? Is it fair that 1% of a nation should?detritus
- The 1% would still apply if it was 61% to 39% and a 60% majority was required.bumdrizzle
- I more meant the euphemistic '1%'.detritus
- Ah, THAT 1%. Is it fair a hostile, foreign owned, London based media should decide the future of a country?bumdrizzle
- I was being somewhat rhetoric, but yes. My problem with all of this is — Scotland has its own 1% too.detritus
- Of course. It's also a fairly small c conservative country.bumdrizzle
- detritus0
I don't really have a dog in this race - my heart says 'yes' my head says 'why?', but Pops just sent me this, so thought I'd share...
- Nobody that has been following this is in anyway surprised that the Scotsman is pro union.bumdrizzle
- Meet the directors - http://www.johnstonp…bumdrizzle
- ha. I was going to enquire as to their leaning.detritus
- sem0
@BumDrizzle
If you read the article that your info-graphic is from you learn that the amounts mentioned were for Crossrail and Tube upgrades in London and surrounding areas.
The Crossrail is not just for London, it starts in Reading and ends in Essex. It passes through London yes but I don't think you could call it a London only expense.
http://www.crossrail.co.uk/route…Also, London's underground is one of the oldest public transport services and obviously costs a ton to improve, not to mention the huge amount of construction work required for these jobs in such a huge city.
The budget for this is around 8bn.The article also states:
"Projects designed to benefit the entire country, such as the High Speed 2 rail line have not been included"Bare in mind that HS2's present cost it around £42.6bn. A very significant amount the Government has put aside to help North & South link better.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-164…Also I don't see how I am xenophobic when I have stated several times my family history and love for the North.
- Bare in mind also that Tube upgrades also improve tourism in the captital, which provides a huge revenue for the UK.sem
- the spend in London is 24 times higher than in the North of Englandlowimpakt
- Crossrail is also to help around 750,000 people commute INTO London, saving appx £42 bn in current pricessem
- bumdrizzle0
I'm not sure pointing out that London based infrastructure projects are expensive really counters the argument that infrastructure, per head, is spent largely in the south of England.
And sorry but lol @ 'it starts in Reading and ends in Essex'.
- I'm not arguing that the south does not get more money spent. Just that the above example ignores the HS2sem
- And expense are based on the amount of work needed. London is a bigger city than any other in the UK.sem
- What you're saying is "Fixing a Motorbike should not cost more than a Moped"sem
- What don't you understand about 'per head'?bumdrizzle
- Because its not per head on everything, those figures are IF you split those 2 PROJECTS down to a per head count.sem
- And those 2 projects are ignoring one HUGE project for both the north and south that double the cost. The article even states that! lolsem
- raf0
I think a "no" will not mean business as usual. It will have deeper consequences. Scotland, now a defeated but pretentiously proud people (not like it's a bad thing), will reduce itself to a non-nation that's run out its course.
I'm probably being over-popmous about this, but people died for Scotland's independence before and are dying for their countries' independence in parts of the planet as we speak. All the Scots need to do is show up and check a box on the ballot.
Even the fact that there is a "no" electorate that exceeds single digits is somewhat mind-boggling for me.
- sem0
Kaiser is a donut. He actually suggests Scotland should use Bitcoin as a currency!
This video was made in 2013 when Bitcoin hit its highest peak (so far) and those that would have invested then would have lost around double their investment based on today's value rates. Rates of which have crashed since the start of 2014 and continue to fall. Not to mention Satoshi's recent hack news. Scotland would have been screwed...not to mention the fact that he clearly does not own any Bitcoin the way he makes out its just a simple thing to obtain and use.
He also says "Scotland has all the oil, all the creative spunk, we've got it all!" while sitting in London. These are the kind of people some allow to blindly influence them.
- sem0
One thing I think its cheeky is that Scotland have it a lot better than those in the North of England.
Don't get me wrong, all the anger towards London and the South is completely understood if coming from someone up the North of England.
- bumdrizzle0
Interesting lack of segue there sem. Guess you didn't want to talk about disproportionate spending anymore?
If you want to talk about currency, economics etc, here is a pretty fair summary of the risk facing an iScotland. Sadly it doesn't mention bitcoin or take a viewpoint from mock the week panel members.
- i_monk0
Of course more is spent in big cities than on small per resident. You don't have the population to support the infrastructure, but want the same amount spent as in London? Spent on what?