Designing without content
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- omg0
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aenean sit amet erat sem, vel ullamcorper nisl. Donec sagittis quam vel metus rhoncus non lacinia lacus tempus. Donec id pellentesque nisi. Cras quam nulla, sodales ut malesuada et, sagittis sollicitudin nibh. Aenean sed nibh vitae quam consectetur ultrices vel eu ligula. Aliquam vitae massa in nisl ultricies congue. Proin congue vulputate arcu, gravida fermentum massa dignissim sit amet. Sed tincidunt est quis leo tincidunt et commodo ligula pretium. Curabitur condimentum nunc ac nibh semper ullamcorper.
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- < what's wrong with just using Lorem Ipsum on a gridomg
- Read threadmonospaced
- Fax_Benson0
^ tl,dr
- nthkl0
The problem is the solution. Open communication with the pitch team, Account Managing and if possible, the Copywriting Team. They should be able to provide an educated answer on what to expect.
- ESKEMA0
yes
- bulletfactory0
Run into this often.... sucks.
In other news, lately I've been using hipster ipsum for my mockups - http://hipsteripsum.me/
- fadein110
its not just pitching. designing for web (the 1st round of visuals) are always done like that... You just generally get a feel for what a client will provide in the end and you design a site that is flexible.
- monospaced0
Design something that will direct their content, perhaps.
- lvl_130
the grid system is your friend.
- Maaku0
So you just go for it lightly and wait for the first round of QA and hit it with a falcon punch of design?
- mikotondria30
It can be a nasty and necessary part of getting work in the door, but it really feels like getting it out the door. It does take a certain siege mentality to be able to put the emotional, artistic and physical effort into every tiny corner, every color, every line and alignment and rhythm, and know that it might all be changed. It really feels like it might all be for nothing, but in fact it might all be for everything. It feels more like carrying the client on your pack than holding their hand. It feels like you are creating a vision for the company in far greater depth than they've done.
I'm not a fan of Lipsum. I would advise not doing it. If you can write even half-decent copy that clearly resonates with your client's business, then do that - it can be more powerful than the more finessed points of the design. Hit them with a great logo treatment, the right colors, and some concise, flattering headlines. Much more investment in exactly what that third item in the sidebar is for, or the precise wording of the maillist sign up is wasted. It has to capture the essence of the company for the prospect quickly, and people read, and they read quickly. Lipsum has a very neutralizing effect on a first-look design. It's great for designers ourselves, and to communicate between each other, and even when some way down the road with a current client, finalizing layouts for a project, but for the pitch, research some real words. Content is king - our role as designers is to give life to that content, and the client's message and brand and viewpoint, as clearly as possible.
The size of this or that photo, or the number of items in the menu there, or the width of the article teaser below the fold etc etc probably will change, don't sweat it, what a client wants to see is that you can give voice to their vision. If the design works in that regard, they won't see it, they will just see themselves, and then it's in the bag.- Nice, thanks.Maaku
- This 100%. If they buy it, 9/10 they don't know the details of why they bought it.cannonball1978
- i_monk0
You get around it by showing a variety of designs – a copy-heavy document, a photo-heavy booklet, a poster, etc – whatever might apply over the run of the campaign/product/identity. Do one and then do a second one under the assumption that they'll double or halve the copy, or ask for one of the seven photos only, you get the idea.
- monospaced0
Just out of curiosity, why does everyone assume he's pitching a website?
- He told us in the other thread.
You probably didn't see it.mikotondria3 - Lol, funny coz they are not wrong :)Maaku
- QBN has been taken over by web designers.i_monk
- "creative digital design production directors" Ahem.mikotondria3
- oh...monospaced
- and print is dead, duh.sine
- :psine
- I guess I've really only heard the word "pitch" used seriously in campaigns, not for sites. Print is not dead, lol.monospaced
- He told us in the other thread.
- d_rek0
Content is king. However, clients rarely -if ever- have the content fitting for a King.
After I graduated I was of the mindset that I was simply the "designer" and that if you just gave me the content I could "design" it. After working professionally for half a decade i've finally realized that as a designer you're much more powerful and valuable to your clientele if you can not only design around what isn't there but help guide what you think should be there. If you were to simply wait around for content to come your way without being able to author content you would no longer be a designer you would be a decorator. You would probably also rarely finish a job.
After all, if you're a designer and you are designing towards a specific audience then you probably have a very good idea of the type of content they want to see/hear/read.
That's not to say it's your job to become a copywriter / filmmaker / photographer... but you should be able to direct their content through informed decision-making.
- Maaku0
Related humor
- monospaced0
@ d_rek, my point exactly. A redesign often results in a rethinking of the messages, and the designer (if experienced) can help a lot here. I do this too, all the time, and it came only after experience. More often than not it's my copy that ends up in the finished product. If I don't do this, then it often goes to shit through a committee of non-writers (clients) getting their dirty hands all in it.
Do your research, and put a healthy amount of real copy in there, even if it's not perfect. If you want less copy, let them know why. They might just learn something.
- Chimp0
d rek has it pretty much spot on.
It seems like there isn't much cohesion, designer, director, copywriter and client. It needs someone lead the brief and pull everything together.
It ends up being a mess if you only do the 'design' and the copywriter does the copy.
Someone needs to stipulate what the message is and how you are going to say it.
- Chimp0
I've always had more control when I've started to write the copy. Basically you as the designer should be thinking what the message should be and how you can communicate it.
- doesnotexist0
this is a huge part of the process. i never use lorem ipsum as it says nothing about the work you're doing and usually falls flat when presented as a design round. you should be spending the time to find swipe that is appropriate and finding text that would suit your vision. write if you have to, anything is better than reading ipsum