Designing without content
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- Miguex0
If you work in an environment where content is ready to go before you start designing, if photographers have all shots ready to go in advance.. consider yourself in heaven.
HANG ON TO THAT JOB FOREVER because you sire... are one in a million
- ETM0
Other than smaller sites, I can't grasp designing without knowing the content. How can you plan a proper UX without knowing what and how a user will consume the content? For large projects, it's content dev first. Design around the content, not make the content work around the design. Or then it's just form over function.
- But to add, I don't pitch. That's not my business model. So take what I say coming from that perspective.ETM
- cannonball19780
Take every chance to communicate intent.
- nthkl0
The problem is the solution. Open communication with the pitch team, Account Managing and if possible, the Copywriting Team. They should be able to provide an educated answer on what to expect.
- Fax_Benson0
^ tl,dr
- omg0
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aenean sit amet erat sem, vel ullamcorper nisl. Donec sagittis quam vel metus rhoncus non lacinia lacus tempus. Donec id pellentesque nisi. Cras quam nulla, sodales ut malesuada et, sagittis sollicitudin nibh. Aenean sed nibh vitae quam consectetur ultrices vel eu ligula. Aliquam vitae massa in nisl ultricies congue. Proin congue vulputate arcu, gravida fermentum massa dignissim sit amet. Sed tincidunt est quis leo tincidunt et commodo ligula pretium. Curabitur condimentum nunc ac nibh semper ullamcorper.
Aenean dapibus, quam fermentum vestibulum pulvinar, leo neque blandit lectus, id bibendum leo lacus non nibh. Duis elementum ligula ut risus cursus ultricies. Aliquam erat volutpat. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aenean malesuada lorem a libero euismod molestie. Cras vitae vehicula justo. Nam elementum tincidunt varius. Duis urna nisl, imperdiet id adipiscing ut, posuere eget tellus. Ut iaculis est at sapien tincidunt pharetra. Integer feugiat dui vitae magna tincidunt hendrerit. Sed pellentesque, quam et rhoncus fermentum, lectus est tincidunt justo, et eleifend diam enim non libero. Pellentesque habitant morbi tristique senectus et netus et malesuada fames ac turpis egestas. Pellentesque habitant morbi tristique senectus et netus et malesuada fames ac turpis egestas. Duis et est ante, ut tincidunt magna. Morbi odio est, condimentum sed laoreet nec, bibendum vestibulum orci.
- < what's wrong with just using Lorem Ipsum on a gridomg
- Read threadmonospaced
- i_monk0
I don't know where you guys work, but we'd never get away with dictating content/messaging like that at studio level.
- that sucksmonospaced
- yes, it does suck. put on heirs!doesnotexist
- vaxorcist0
@cannonball1978's idea is great.
The implicit question we need to ask, but often cannot for reasons of diplomacy is:
Why did you hire a designer/agency rather than buy a template for lunch money and cut-paste the content in the boxes?
Because a designer/agency will design something IN CONTEXT, which is aimed at a TARGET MARKET, basing the appeal on a CENTRAL INSIGHT into that target market's buying triggers/mindset/etc and the finished work will be directed to fulfilling BUSINESS OBJECTIVES, so your brand/product sells/improves market position,etc...
....rather than "just get the thing done"....
if you "just want to get the thing done" there are lots of templates you can paste stuff into....
the perils of middle management are often displayed here, as the people who have the authority to make decisions are often remote, whereas the people who need things done now are in your face and don't have the authority to make decisions...
- looks good on paper yes, I agree.
but its so far from reality I can't even consider itMiguex
- looks good on paper yes, I agree.
- cannonball19780
Sometimes instead of lorem ipsum, consider actually writing a description of what is happening or what something should do in place.
"This paragraph describes how the new Nissan Z's performance outstrips the Scion. There will be x y and z features that illustrate the various engine controls. At this point, the user should know a b and c about this and that so we can assume one thing and therefore we don't need to go into this other thing."
- creative brief copy strategy is a good thing... even cut-pasting that in would be good!vaxorcist
- exactly what we were saying up abovemonospaced
- tl;drcannonball1978
- doesnotexist0
this is a huge part of the process. i never use lorem ipsum as it says nothing about the work you're doing and usually falls flat when presented as a design round. you should be spending the time to find swipe that is appropriate and finding text that would suit your vision. write if you have to, anything is better than reading ipsum
- Chimp0
I've always had more control when I've started to write the copy. Basically you as the designer should be thinking what the message should be and how you can communicate it.
- Chimp0
d rek has it pretty much spot on.
It seems like there isn't much cohesion, designer, director, copywriter and client. It needs someone lead the brief and pull everything together.
It ends up being a mess if you only do the 'design' and the copywriter does the copy.
Someone needs to stipulate what the message is and how you are going to say it.
- monospaced0
@ d_rek, my point exactly. A redesign often results in a rethinking of the messages, and the designer (if experienced) can help a lot here. I do this too, all the time, and it came only after experience. More often than not it's my copy that ends up in the finished product. If I don't do this, then it often goes to shit through a committee of non-writers (clients) getting their dirty hands all in it.
Do your research, and put a healthy amount of real copy in there, even if it's not perfect. If you want less copy, let them know why. They might just learn something.
- Maaku0
Related humor
- d_rek0
Content is king. However, clients rarely -if ever- have the content fitting for a King.
After I graduated I was of the mindset that I was simply the "designer" and that if you just gave me the content I could "design" it. After working professionally for half a decade i've finally realized that as a designer you're much more powerful and valuable to your clientele if you can not only design around what isn't there but help guide what you think should be there. If you were to simply wait around for content to come your way without being able to author content you would no longer be a designer you would be a decorator. You would probably also rarely finish a job.
After all, if you're a designer and you are designing towards a specific audience then you probably have a very good idea of the type of content they want to see/hear/read.
That's not to say it's your job to become a copywriter / filmmaker / photographer... but you should be able to direct their content through informed decision-making.
- monospaced0
Just out of curiosity, why does everyone assume he's pitching a website?
- He told us in the other thread.
You probably didn't see it.mikotondria3 - Lol, funny coz they are not wrong :)Maaku
- QBN has been taken over by web designers.i_monk
- "creative digital design production directors" Ahem.mikotondria3
- oh...monospaced
- and print is dead, duh.sine
- :psine
- I guess I've really only heard the word "pitch" used seriously in campaigns, not for sites. Print is not dead, lol.monospaced
- He told us in the other thread.
- i_monk0
You get around it by showing a variety of designs – a copy-heavy document, a photo-heavy booklet, a poster, etc – whatever might apply over the run of the campaign/product/identity. Do one and then do a second one under the assumption that they'll double or halve the copy, or ask for one of the seven photos only, you get the idea.
- mikotondria30
It can be a nasty and necessary part of getting work in the door, but it really feels like getting it out the door. It does take a certain siege mentality to be able to put the emotional, artistic and physical effort into every tiny corner, every color, every line and alignment and rhythm, and know that it might all be changed. It really feels like it might all be for nothing, but in fact it might all be for everything. It feels more like carrying the client on your pack than holding their hand. It feels like you are creating a vision for the company in far greater depth than they've done.
I'm not a fan of Lipsum. I would advise not doing it. If you can write even half-decent copy that clearly resonates with your client's business, then do that - it can be more powerful than the more finessed points of the design. Hit them with a great logo treatment, the right colors, and some concise, flattering headlines. Much more investment in exactly what that third item in the sidebar is for, or the precise wording of the maillist sign up is wasted. It has to capture the essence of the company for the prospect quickly, and people read, and they read quickly. Lipsum has a very neutralizing effect on a first-look design. It's great for designers ourselves, and to communicate between each other, and even when some way down the road with a current client, finalizing layouts for a project, but for the pitch, research some real words. Content is king - our role as designers is to give life to that content, and the client's message and brand and viewpoint, as clearly as possible.
The size of this or that photo, or the number of items in the menu there, or the width of the article teaser below the fold etc etc probably will change, don't sweat it, what a client wants to see is that you can give voice to their vision. If the design works in that regard, they won't see it, they will just see themselves, and then it's in the bag.- Nice, thanks.Maaku
- This 100%. If they buy it, 9/10 they don't know the details of why they bought it.cannonball1978
- Maaku0
So you just go for it lightly and wait for the first round of QA and hit it with a falcon punch of design?
- lvl_130
the grid system is your friend.