iFlowReader out of business
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- dMullins0
THE BOZ IS ANGRY!
- THREAD SPOILER. at least boz tries to debate his pov.inteliboy
- I am about to switch back to Firefox just so I can ignore these god damn retarded threads.dMullins
- I am doing my bestest to pose a real debate here and not resort to any insultsmonospaced
- Boz0
ESKEMA.. let's first analyze the thing.. you are insinuating this is the same as Apple.. it's not.
First of all.. if you have an iPhone 4 you are being hunted down and prevented from using tethering at all (even with Cydia apps after you hacked your iPhone) if you don't pay. So you have to pay or you don't get it.. and actually tethering is fairly new on IOS anyways, it was first introduced on Android devices.
Now let's look at the issue with Android Marketplace and tethering apps prevention.
Android Marketplace is not open. It's a Google service that's moderated by google.. and is default store for Android. This doesn't mean it's the only choice of apps but it's the largest.. In addition to this, you can download any app from a website.. All you have to do is enable on the phone a setting that's called "Allow Unknown Sources" for apps. No hacking, nothing.
Google kicked/is kicking tethering apps from the store because of the agreement with phone carriers. Unlike iOS or Apple's approach, the guys who "sell" or live off of these apps can still sell them from their websites and alternate app stores. They just can't sell it through Android Marketplace. I don't see a problem there at all..
This is hugely different from Apple's approach where your only response is "well you can sell it on other platforms" but only after you have built everything to the proprietary Apple system. Selling it to iPhone users is impossible from anywhere else.
Btw, on Nexus One, I still tether to any device without any app for free.. using my existing unlimited data plan from AT&T.. nobody says anything and there isn't a problem there..
Google is not hunting you down and preventing you from using tethering on your phone.. they are just saying, since they have agreements with these companies, they have to prevent offering tethering that encourages free tethering on locked phones.
Again, I have to reiterate this. Unlike Apple, this won't kill or hurt anyone. If you want those apps you can still download them from their owners through their sites. You just won't be able to buy them from Android Marketplace. A fundamentally different approach compared to Apple.
- ernexbcn0
@Boz I can do tethering with no extra fees, I also have a flat rate (iPhone 4 here), and not jailbroken.
- This is a carrier choice not an Apple decision. Android gets free tethering because they have to shift them somehowanimatedgif
- ESKEMA0
^^But isn't this against all openness Google blabs about? OPEN.
So after all it's just open sometimes. And your argument is the same because in the end, if you can't sell here (google Marketplace) go sell somewhere else (not google marketplace).
If you can't sell here (Apple App Store) sell somewhere else (Not Apple App Store).
- Boz0
No.. it's not the same argument for christ sake..
If you can't sell an app on App Store you can't sell it anywhere else.
If you can't sell an app on Android Marketplace you can sell/distribute it from your website, from another Android store etc..
What is confusing you here?
If you are talking open source. Then yes, most Google products are actually NOT open source, including Android Marketplace.. Android OS is though.. and that's what allows others to create their own stores (a few out there and Amazon releasing one too), platforms that work and compete with Google's and so on.
It is the very definition of open for christ sake.
- inteliboy0
But who is going to use some third-party app store on their phone? Or figure out how to install an app manually from a website link? This ain't the 1990's.
There are very obvious and logical reasons why Apple do what they do, just as why Google do what they do... and unfortunately neither are part of some kind of evil scheme that you suggest.
- Boz0
What do you mean? A 3rd party app store is the same as installing any app.. there's nothing special.
Also, you can directly install apps to your Android phone from the web..
Oh there are logical reasons. Apple needs full control in order to make you buy their remaining hardware. They NEED you to be locked in so you can't use anything else.
Google's approach is to open everything up, to motivate competition because even if someone makes a better platform like app store or whatever, they still win because their primary business is search and advertising.. So progress and openness is in their interest, complete opposite of Apple. Apple needs to "enslave" your content, apps and everything, make you buy from their services, make you buy their accessories, make you buy their computers etc etc and everyone building stuff for their platform can't use anything else. And even if you do not compete with them today, you might build a kick ass service or app and tomorrow Apple makes something similar and they will most likely kick you out or change terms of agreement so it's unsustainable for you.
- inteliboy0
Really? What does one have that "enslaves" them?
This is where I just don't get your argument. This idea that Apple users & devs are in some kind of locked in jail. How so? Do you have an example?
- ESKEMA0
Boz, the dudes sold books on iOS via in-app purchases. they can still do it. Apple isn't saying you can't sell books, they're saying you have to sell them via Book Store.
What is wrong about that?
If they didn't protect themselves, everyone would put apps for free and charge users via in-app for everything else, and Apple, who built the platform, built the hardware, maintain everything rolling smoothly, would receive shit.As you say, Apple and Google businesses are very different. Google doesn't give a shit about apps or stores, they're init for the ads. Their way permits them to get their business in that direction, Apple's doesn't. Why would they open hand of their revenue?
It's like babling about why google doesn't open source it's search algorithms...
- ESKEMA0
If you had a restaurant, would you let someone come in and sell burritos inside it, and receive shit in return? would you go to them, shake hands and ask if they want some glass of water??
FFS- exactly...especially if that restaurant turns out high-end dishesmonospaced
- Boz0
"Apple isn't saying you can't sell books, they're saying you have to sell them via Book Store. "
The problem is that you can sell books as long as you give them a share for selling those books. They are invading your business and basically saying "you know what, you are making quite a bit of money from books, if you want to sell them on iOS and iPhone devices as you have so far, you will now have to pay us 30% share"
On the other hand, you can't sell movies, TV shows, music at all unless it's from iTunes.. the same way for eBooks now..
"If they didn't protect themselves, everyone would put apps for free and charge users via in-app for everything else, and Apple, who built the platform, built the hardware, maintain everything rolling smoothly, would receive shit."
YES!!!! That's the fucking point right there.. COMPETITION.. if they allowed people simply competing on their platform, it is very likely that many people wouldn't use their apps and services.
That's the whole point.. It's easy to be full of shit when you are "locking" both users and developers into your platform and when you see someone doing good or they compete with Apple down the road, Apple will go and tell you that you either have to be taken off the App Store (developer terms say that) or they will change the pay model where now you will have to pay Apple 30% fee..
Apple can't compete.. this is what the main reason really is.. If they opened up their platform for competition, there would be companies who would do services much better than Apple and Apple would lose the the control factor and the force for you buying a new Apple product.
The reason they make a lot of money is because their platform became popular, they don't allow you to use pretty much anything else but their services and apps so they charge you all the money.
While this is great for them, it's bad for everyone involved really. That's the whole point because what i"m saying.. They can do whatever they want, but it's obvious they are the most hardcore proprietary, anti-competitive, greedy company in the tech world and a lot of people let it pass because they make beautifully designed products.
- monospaced0
Like I've said before. If Apple is doing a poor job, as you've stated so eloquently, then the devs will jump ship and join one of the "companies who...do services much better," such as Google. Apple set up their store before any other stores existed, which invites competing stores. OF COURSE they're not going to let others compete with them on their own platform. If Google thinks this is a good idea (which I don't believe for a second) then the devs will jump ship from Apple.
The fact of the matter is that the Android platform will soon have several competing independent stores along with competing websites that all aim to get content onto their phones. I know you think this is a good thing, but for the consumer it's terrible. Of course this model might create a better store that will eventually rise to the top, but you can't really say that Apple is anti-competitive when they're just the frontrunners.
- exactly.. competition breeds progress and better choices for users.. That's the whole idea of open.Boz
- Boz0
@ESKIMA
Ha ha.. making comparison of a technology company to a restaurant.
In your analogy if you can call it that, nobody is telling Apple to allow others to sell computers and devices through their retail stores.. Apple is a hardware company first that is using software/content lock in to sell more of it.
Apple is more like mafia. They own buildings and they rent them out for people to run businesses and live there, and everybody can come in, but if you start doing something after a while where mafia wants a cut from or they loved your idea so they want to compete with you, you need to buy "protection". If you don't, you are a goner. If you do, well everyone is happy cause now the big boss Steve gets 30% share of your business.
Hey listen. I personally don't give a crap about all this.. I tell everyone to develop for Android first and iOS second because Android is clearly the future, startups can control their business however they want and then iOS is their second choice because it's unavoidable. But their primary business is always wiser to be based on Android because they will have full control over it and no company can tell them what they can or can't do.
I also said, it's these guys fault too.. I just hope more and more devs realize this. But they'll probably realize once they actually face Apple censorship and they can't do anything about it.. at which point it's too late.
So it's wise to go with open and then expand into proprietary instead of going proprietary platform and then going wide because as seen here, Apple has full control over your business if you start with them.
All I'm saying is, that Apple is the most closed up, proprietary, anti-competitive, anti-consumer, greedy company in tech world today.
They make beautiful products, but that doesn't excuse their business model and company politics.
- inteliboy0
boz you lost me. sorry. Every post of yours here is just opinion, not fact or based on any sense of reality.
You fail to give a reasonable, real world example of what the fuck it is that Apple is doing that is so wrong... rather you continue to deliver fanboy style hyberbole that ammounts to nothing.
- Boz0
You have all the freakin evience man.. What else do you need..
1. FACT: They kick apps from the store for similar features as their services.
2. FACT: You can't sell any content or use 3rd party APIs for users using iPhone 4 hardware if you want to release an app on app store.
3. FACT: They change terms on a whim. Read the response from a developer posted in this thread and why they are forced to close their business. You build an app, you sell content, then you suddenly are told you will now have to give 30% of your profit to Apple because they changed the agreement after.
4. FACT: The only way to get apps on your phone is App Store.
What the fuck else do you want.. there's a TON of other facts and reasons that back up my "opinions"..
I would argue it is some of you people who are such Apple fans that counter with Apple corporate rhetoric and PR babble instead of showing examples.
All you are doing is justifying shit that Apple does.
I'm giving you DIRECT FUCKING example in real life on why Apple sucks ass, you just choose to ignore it because you love Apple so much that you will justify anything they do.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised because that's how Apple cult operates really. Most people believe that shit.
- dMullins0
^ TL:DR — Boz is angry because someone on the Internet has a different opinion than him.
- Boz0
But just to throw a few links there so you can understand what's wrong:
http://gizmodo.com/5490310/its-t…
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010…
http://www.washingtontimes.com/n…
http://www.readwriteweb.com/arch…
http://speirs.org/blog/2008/9/12…
http://www.naturalnews.com/00049…
http://www.networkworld.com/comm…
http://www.osnews.com/story/2342…
http://gigaom.com/2010/06/09/app…
http://www.tipb.com/2010/10/08/a…
I mean there's tons.. I can't be bothered to link more.. it's just one thing after another. Their business model and policies are anti-competitive, anti-consumer and monopolistic really.
- You're wrong though. It's just business and there is tons of lame competition. You're such a hatermonospaced
- Consumers love apple. Great products and software that lasts and works.monospaced
- hey guys, Boz can Google.dMullins
- animatedgif0
Hey Boz
