capitalism
capitalism
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- pr2-1
MrD, i didn't mean to sound like i'm insulting you. What i was going at is that the "entertainer" label was coined by the right wingers when Sicko came out to give less validity to his statements, thus anyone using that label whether consciously or unconsciously is spreading the biased right wing agenda.
The very same way we have "pro life" label used by people against abortion and "pro choice" used by proponents of abortion - both sides trying to come up with a label that shows that their cause is just - because after all how can you be against life, or how can you be aginst free choice? Or We have "estate tax" used by people who want to tax inheritance and "death tax" (because who would want to tax the dead?) used by people who are against it. All those labels are carefully chosen to further the someone agenda. Words have a huge power and using them willy nilly is dangerous.
- pr2-1
And on an artistic level the opening scene where he intercuts film about falling of Rome with modern-day America was just brilliant.
- deathboy-3
I've been thinking about this and I have a liberal buddy who is all about the free edu and healthcare and other socialist democracy of free shit in other countries.
It's not that we differ in end goals. As far as edu and healthcare he prefer it to be free, but would accept it at reasonable rates. We laugh at well I want free pizza too, and beer if possible and I think he understands it's not a "right" but understands it also doesnt make economic sense. But I think he's only looking at price and saying shit that's not right, but not really aware of market forces and reasons to turn it around, and as such jumping on any bandwagon possible that tries to simplify it in an easy term like david vs goliath. Like big pharma instead of patent rules and FDA approvals and even shit like the doctor guilds and education boundaries that allow practitioners to practice at lower costs. Licensing is a bitch and many other countries that offer cheaper solutions dont have the hurdles.
At the same time we both also have different value structures. He is willingly ready to give liberty for security, where as i will forego security for liberty. And this value structure is huge in the debate and where people stand. Knowingly live comfortable or at the whims of others, or risk pursuing your own end goals without obstruction. Not being taxed on success and enjoying rewards for living outside comfort zones. I cant stand being under soem unknown thumb. Probably genetics where as others love it. Survival instincts. You're weak you love to be supported (sounds like an insult I know but it is biology..even times i pleasure in someone else doing the lifting.) Strong you have no desire for support.
And this is the major differecne between collectivism/tribalism/socialism... ism's vs individualism. Capitalism in its purest form supports individualism. It offers a free bartering of ones work for another in cohabituation. That labors and energy exchanged are in the form of a transferable currency. And this can be exchanged freely by everyone in the most direct democratic system possible. More direct than 2-4 yr elections and appointees. Capitalism is the most effective true direct democracy. Every dollar every day is a vote.
The only people threatened by capitalism (by my definition at least, words are weird and can have different meanings too or emo triggers like nigger and cunt although just words) are people trying to retain power with nothing to offer. They're threatened by competition. They try to game the system for themselves. Which is another human trait. Self preservation and its strong in the weak and the cowards. Is it wrong? Beats me, it seems to win the most of the time, although it never seems to benefit the majority of ppl. Hell if i was desparate I'd probably run for public office too. Which is a problem. Same with cop problems. How do you incentivize people to run for office or even cops that are not power hugnry cowards. So few run on personal principles. You see it in all the ads about the flip flops when it comes to their jobs which is all they care about. I can probably only call a few principles of the hundrends and stil they sometiems wonder well shit do i want to please people and be relected or go unemployed. And these spineless people love campaign money from people scared of real competition. Hence crony capitalism. Cowards feeding cowards.
Which if you are familair with thermodynamics i think is the cancer in the system. The epitome of a healthy system is one that needs less laws and is free. The systematic downfall and failures in society trigger a individualist system into a more cancerous collectivist system. The more it relies on gov and regulations the more it goes into its death cycle. You can fight entrophy in systems but it does take energy. However energy directed in a path against the least resistance. I'm pretty sure despite the obvious info we will not deviate or fight the entrophy and provide physics a perfect example of cognizant people eaware of world still falling to the death and rebirth cycle of entrophy.
But to summarize the rambling I HOPE people see end goals are no different. And they question purely their own selfish motives. One of liberty or security. Even maybe accept they might be a coward in choosing security. Nothing wrong, its biological, but not feeling bad and making excuses about it. But own it. Say I want to have an abstract rule over others for my security. The early planations in US disavowed slavery due to security. It did help the US ( not as much as central banking) but most of slavery was economic and not race base. It was collectivist nature and protectionism that enabled slavery vs free market enterprise. The paralells of of self service in the name of a "greater good" always seems to know no bounds. Especially when helping the preacher. But again rambling...
I'll end with a reagan quote
which I think goes back to Michel de Montaigne 'I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly.'- and any person who thinks socialistic programs have no cost. read road to serfdom by hayek. there are welfare states that are a mix of free markets and benefitsdeathboy
- but always a matter or time. central planning creates economic bubbles which will create some funny dictatorships. even the scandinavien countries feeling itdeathboy
- capitalism is not gping to go away. think of socialism as an evolution from capitalism. Where would we be without libraries, the police, fire and armydocpoz
- once weve reached a plateau in capitalism, socialism will improve things and balance things out naturally. read marx, forget stalin. he preferred brute takeoverdocpoz
- but again wwII winner and global finance and a reserve currency plus our large export/import and companies and diverse ppl make us nothing close to other placesdeathboy
- something else to really absorb before rash generalizations with things that really have little in comparisondeathboy
- doc you have it wrong. ill concede if men were ants with out any individual aspects they could form as a whole and beat any individualdeathboy
- but they are not. at least yet. and marx was an idiot. dont u see he only saw himself as a beneficiary and totally disregarded how trade works.deathboy
- marx is like reading CS lewis. People trapped in a single frame of mind trying so hard to justify their beliefs emotionally, not logicallydeathboy
- actually doc. ill bite explain to me the natural incentive that makes socialism or any collectivism naturally improve things?deathboy
- I get china thinks the same with reeducation camps.or censoring of info. This does create a better world from the reference of the person who controls.deathboy
- Might you be projecting your values of a world controlled by you onto a ruling party and hoping they have the same values?deathboy
- read marxdocpoz
- doc i do think you have been mislead. have you ever wondered if what you know is absolutely wrong. and if the case are you ok with it? Or will you fight it?deathboy
- let me try to interpret:docpoz
- is it part of your identity or could you easily accept evidence and switch opinion? Reminds me of diogenes quote about easily turningdeathboy
- marx is absurd. he only sells to emotion not reason.deathboy
- if you want reason truly read road to serdom. A great piece about collectivism in any form stalin or marxism and its natural downfalldeathboy
- But doc do tell me do u value security or freedom?deathboy
- brbdocpoz
- i have company. brb brbdocpoz
- k im backdocpoz
- do i value security? sure. on what level? do I want to be convicted of a crime I haven't committed yet? surely not.docpoz
- do I value freedom? that is the most important thing. how free is your society? how many false incarcerations? how many erroneous lives taken? anywhoodocpoz
- im new to marx. i like what ive seen. ideolistic? definetely. visionary? surely. well intentioned? yes...docpoz
- *idealisticdocpoz
- but in my interpretation of what has happened with socialism... is that it was weaponized and abused and given a negative stigma...docpoz
- and before then it was a philosophy where a social structure can be level in a way where the welfare state has a standard that is much above that of povertydocpoz
- and I believe this philosophy insinuated that it would be a natural extension of capitalism or would be a remedy to a broken capitalist systemdocpoz
- I know some leftists think capitalism is broken already and want a system that works and will reach into levels of socialism as solution to a problemdocpoz
- i think a healthy welfare state is a sign of prosperity so it is a good thing to have in a societydocpoz
- but you know who isnt for a prosperous utopia where everything you need is given to you and you just go out there and live your best life hahadocpoz
- and you could view a world with little stress. a healthy world with less environmental problems and healthy species of animals? healthy corals?docpoz
- Who has the balls to implement a carbon footprint tax? Oh man, companies would balk. Humanity is going in the right direction, everything is almost mapped outdocpoz
- for us...docpoz
- we are merging into cyborgs and have created a magical electrical element called digital 1s and 0s. can we merge with technology? apparently.docpoz
- the problem is that we need i/os implanted into our nervous systems using nanotechnology.docpoz
- direct i/os into the coretex...docpoz
- ai is about to explode. how will that affect things? how will it affect marx' theory?docpoz
- we need to ensure the planet's safety. that goal should be in every social structuredocpoz
- when business interests block our safety, will we smoke the big industry cigarette to cancer?docpoz
- is classism a sickness. probablydocpoz
- the french revolution.docpoz
- anyways corporations will probably privatize welfare anyways if not alreadydocpoz
- furthermore most innovation is developed by the military complex anyways so the corporations are being directly influenced by military.docpoz
- really, the system is just a system. no labels. just design it efficiently.docpoz
- our system has a layer of services provided by our taxes and lets make that as efficient as possible for the most peopledocpoz
- lets have freedoms of peace throughout the planetdocpoz
- or the areas working well enough for it to happendocpoz
- some places are hopeless jk hadocpoz
- im probably delving too much in philosophy so as to the issues facing us: capitalist lobbyists affecting policy, corporations controlling democracy either...docpoz
- ...directly or through mindshare.docpoz
- self-destruction through profit by way of irresponsible environmental policiesdocpoz
- also: the effect of the one percent situationdocpoz
- the need to cure the planet of different industrial illnesses, like coral reef bleaching and air pollutiondocpoz
- making sure the health care situation is solid and that affordable housing is availabledocpoz
- its a lot of shit. if you ever live in the big city you can see how welfare helps lives. it would be a war zone without these programs.docpoz
- most of these programs can be labeled as socialist programs. just like: police, fire, hospitals... etc.fire dept sends you a bill nowadays. go figure.docpoz
- ok this joint is done. im done. im not a politician man. im just into philosophy, i dabble in sociologydocpoz
- and Ive been listening to Musk.docpoz
- curb emissions.. curb carbon footprints.docpoz
- wow.... u seem to want really care and want better, but are absolutely wrong in your approach.you think marx or stalin or even hitler wanted to create a worsedeathboy
- world. they all ahd good intentions. even Xi in china right now. But look at western china and its polcie state for the most blatant result of such central plandeathboy
- by some small group of individuals who think they know best. hell trumps trade war thinking he knows best is a perfect example of the faults in marxism or anydeathboy
- collectivism culture. this is where capitalism differs. But you do have to understand and be cool with the idea some people will be fodder, out of their owndeathboy
- laziness or lack of ability. that is simply LIFE. a hard truth that we can throw money at in so many types of social welfare programs or anti homeless rulesdeathboy
- some ppl lack the abilities needed to survive. i dont feel bad for them. hell why should i? i know ppl who are pissed born with malformities that would be pissedeathboy
- d if i took some sort of pity on them. that is life. a culture that says you should pity or feel for, which is different than empathy, is wrongdeathboy
- but i think certain types are more prone to feelign than reason. again biology. and those types push more marx or socialism or any collectivism like the churchdeathboy
- a mixture of fear and having no natural buffer of feelings. Reason is the buffer necessary to control feelings and not be an animaldeathboy
- Also welfare enslaves more than it helps. You can watch some milton friedman free to choose series on the topic. The idea is it sets a benchmarkdeathboy
- if it try and dont succeed or just barely succeed over X i get no help. so why should I even try at all if i barely go past X when X is given to me.deathboy
- my mom made the majority of my clothes living in a single wide in the middle of nowhere nv. ive seen poor and been poor and never did my family use welfaredeathboy
- i saw ppl who did too and its effects. I learned a lot about watching my folks with credit and switching cards 0 apr balances. hell a 500 dollar xmas was paiddeathboy
- all year on layaway. Is funny the majority of ppl who talk of the poor the loudest have never beendeathboy
- Look I like philosophy a lot. You should read the road to serfdom. It pissed many ppl off in its day and might piss you off too being the emotional control typedeathboy
- But it is rationally almost spot on about the nature of humans and control regarding political and economic systems. And a bonus in the language studydeathboy
- and the meaning of words. I always find it funny liberalism meant something so different from today than it did in the past.deathboy
- always fascinated by humans and the ability to shape reality, truth and meanings in abstract variable of language and how easy to change reality with themdeathboy
- also "i think a healthy welfare state is a sign of prosperity so it is a good thing to have in a society" a very weird thing to think. Not sure what reason onedeathboy
- think that is a good thing. Man relying on the handouts of those elected who continuously offer more for votes, which they take from the non welfare ppldeathboy
- its a death spiral. unless you actually beleive men on welfare want no more, are no more greedy than a person passively investing in a 401k or gambling.deathboy
- they will always be happy and contempt with their welfare state. no polician will need an edge or offer for votes, and those with will continue unabated to provdeathboy
- ide such a welfare state. The problem is marxists think of the large part of humanity as ants or pawns. marx, stalin, mussolini, maduro, xi, mao, etc.deathboy
- never for once took the perspective of how they would behave at the bottom rung of the ladder. ever question the human spirit and wether they'd except theirdeathboy
- place. because if ppl dont except and fall in line it creates chaos for the rulers and planners. really its all so simple. but im a thinker vs feelerdeathboy
- Nothing you have said id rational. I think humans should have a basic right to dignified essentials. Period. In a world wherre the one percent is raping...docpoz
- Humanity , those essentials should be plentiful.your whole perspective is driven by guiltdocpoz
- Get over your fear of welfaredocpoz
- Your the type of person that pays taxes up the ass and then would rather live on the street than get public assistance. Fine.docpoz
- you think humans should essentials ... is that reason or emotion. If reason you need to back it with a rational basis.deathboy
- i dont have a fear of welfare. but i hate to see peopel enslaved by it. and it has a purpose. give enough so people dont get hungry and try to rob medeathboy
- i prefer to let the charity and those who get off on it help others than forcing people to do it though.deathboy
- and no i minimize my taxes. being self employed you really learn about the tax burden more than a wage slave.deathboy
- im the type that wont live on the street. but many will with welfare and be happy to do it over actually workingdeathboy
- and please if I failed to explain any rationale let me know. a lot i think is common sense but i might be assuming too much. perhaps too much hope obama styledeathboy
- so i too can also be quite lazy in explanationdeathboy
- and the rationale of humans must have essentials in the type of FDR second bill of rights is decimated by reason. there is a resason essentials isnt in currentdeathboy
- bill of right or is healthcare and such. The simple argument against things is there is nor right of an individual derived on the labors of anotherdeathboy
- this phislophical view point is why slavery is incorrect even though in the past they labeled slaves as property and not beings.deathboy
- if one has a right to these essentials they must be provided by another. this other must have no say. this makes them a modern day slave. this is where marxismdeathboy
- falls part. it tries to extol self sacrifice and make people think that its natural making the modern day slavery voluntary agaisnt reason other might not wantdeathboy
- all a con to get someone to sit on a throne why others fight about selfliessness. a poor man con job of a idea with 0 value to get rich ondeathboy
- you definitely are a emotion type of person. i doubt any of this will do anything except make u feel more passionately about your beliefsdeathboy
- but there is the saying about a tiger and their stripes. and my saying it is how it is becaue it cant be anything but what it isdeathboy
- sorrry, what? anyways. ok whateverdocpoz
- just check your premise. if you like reason and philosophy. simply start by questions your idea of "rights", or compare FDR rights vs bill of rightsdeathboy
- you will see the basis of most todays termed "liberal" arguments start on a broken premise. And they absolutely try to obfuscate what capitalism is.deathboy
- which is a means of free people to trade value amongst others voluntarily. Of all the boogiemen of capitalism being monopoly their really has only been onedeathboy
- and that's government. this is why gov is suppose to be very limited and have small influence on trade. why stuff like trumps tariffs are far from it.deathboy
- hell facism is derived from a description of italy wwII. it was collectivist control focused on business. ppl think its far different from socialism or communisdeathboy
- but theyre all primarily the same. all on the same side against individualism. and they have all failed historically and they all have the same excusedeathboy
- and say not far enough one way or in one sector and define the failure with a new ism and try a new power hungry hopeful copies the plan and more than likelydeathboy
- believes they will have a different outcome this time. which is really the definition of insanity. Its tough when the new religious pulpit is universitiesdeathboy
- the academics and false experts (which everyone in advertising knows selling expertise is a branding con job) as new priests. Ppl are starting to think thedeathboy
- idea of science is infallible without knowing anything about it. That's a problem. Considering there are so many "experts" in their own fields in disagreementdeathboy
- there is no problem with capitalism. think of socialism as an evolution instead of a competitor. let me ask you...what tax bracket are you in?docpoz
- and so many different measures. or paid for studies and stats. I think id rather people believe blindly in god than a research paper with viral sharing.deathboy
- or actually not even the research paper but the 1-2 line conclusion and headline of said paper disregarding all methods of research.deathboy
- but than again. advertising has trained people to read headline quick body and decide. advertising a cornerstone of capitalism but our public schooling faileddeathboy
- to teach kids to and adults to recognize bullshit, because they where being conditioned like dewey wanted to fall in line with anyone speaking the loudestdeathboy
- in the front of the class. dewey always believed smart good men would run things and if you could curb radical free thinking and get masses to followdeathboy
- you'd maintain a good system. but he was blinded by the good intention and never thought good people wouldn't rule, or what motivates those to run for power.deathboy
- in short again capitalism is good and all your knowledge of else is incorrect so check your premisesdeathboy
- capitalism is good. socialism is an evolution of capitalism. without capitalism working well you cannot have functioning, proper socialism.docpoz
- socialism will not work until the conscioussness of the people is ready for it. obviously you and others are not ready for it.docpoz
- its not a competition.docpoz
- what country do you live in?docpoz
- read this: https://www.quora.co…docpoz
- and this: https://www.quora.co…docpoz
- thats a good starting point so you can educate yourself a bit.docpoz
- wow dude. socialism is not evolution. it is tribalism. again basic philosophies of individualism vs collectivism.deathboy
- yes you can have a large welfare state with limited capitalism. The bernie bro countries... but you also have to figure with such a state you have far lessdeathboy
- entrepreneurship, and really need a specific economic demographic to control. there is a reason little development has ever come out of bernies chosen countrysdeathboy
- and such countries rarely ever mention that all progress comes from largely us in the heathcare sector (US)deathboy
- than there is tech there is retail, there is entertainment. what has norways welfare state with capitalism fundamentals really produced except a butter blackdeathboy
- market. all life is a competition. i can say im quite educated without a single degree in rational thinking.deathboy
- explain this "socialism will not work until the conscioussness of the people is ready for it." what does that mean?deathboy
- how is that different than hitlers new world order battling a world who wont except the conciousness of his will? You do know he ran on a socialist platformdeathboy
- you see you help prove the my statement that all collectivist say its not far enough, not enough believers. no reason. all faithdeathboy
- no different than you religious collectivists. liberals and the religious are no different except in their idea of god. one wants a tangible source the other okdeathboy
- on faith. i think those wanting the tangible miss the point and purpose of religion all together. its to feel good even if it means imagining the unreal.deathboy
- the liberals who believe in an omnipotent state that stands for the greater good. are far more blind that many religious folks believing dogma. reagan quotedeathboy
- and please use your words and not quora to explain your premise. it is irrational. where do i start? make a case on your own and ill show you where you errordeathboy
- i wont show every error of any comment on quoradeathboy
- oh yea forgot to mention the welfare + capitalism countries end up in stagnation and finally turmoil when the sources of wealth disappear. norways oil moneydeathboy
- venezuala would be absolutely disrupted if oil demands drops off. say gov, not free markets force EVs. Norway welfare state would become fuckeddeathboy
- it would crumble. so is that just a wrong model? was venezuela a wrong model? what is the right model leninism look like? another point to prove your casedeathboy
- I think that when it comes to industrial progress, you make a good point and one that i dont have research on.docpoz
- "Marx was inspired by Darwin and believed that history evolves like biological species. As a consequence of that, he considered that his theory is scientific andocpoz
- ... amoral. The proletariat should make the revolution and create Communism not because they have the moral right to do so (actually, Marx praised Capitalism asdocpoz
- a far better system than Feudalism, and Communism as a normal evolution from Capitalism), but because the objective laws of a scientific economic history dictadocpoz
- this outcome. From his perspective, capitalist owners are not necessary bad people, the system is broken.docpoz
- If a capitalist tried to provide better conditions for the workers, he would be eliminated by the competition. However, he considered that the Communist systemdocpoz
- is far more efficient than the Capitalist one because it was the result of evolution. The consequence of the clash is inevitable because history is not decideddocpoz
- by individuals or states, but by scientific objective laws (in that sense, Marx was a predecessor of today’s scientism, a current of thinkers that believes blindocpoz
- blindly in the infinite power of science to explain and understand everything).docpoz
- Marx referred to the “modern” democratic state as the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie and thus his notion of a “dictatorship” of the proletariat was one in whicdocpoz
- you had a democratic state that acted in the interests of the workers rather than in the interests of business.docpoz
- Anyways, Marx had an ideal that I believe should be worked to as much as feasibly possible. Not in an aggressive way, but in a way thats sensible and fits w/...docpoz
- the status quo. Whats the point of the upper class hogging all of the wealth anyways? If there is excess, there should be some investment in the peopledocpoz
- Lenin failed. Forget Lenin. Lenin weaponized socialism and he failed.docpoz
- Marx' core values are sensible and should continue to be studied.docpoz
- Why does socialism work in some places and not in others? Theres a delicate balance that needs to be studied. China. Norway. Venezuela. Cuba. USSR....docpoz
- All must be studied.docpoz
- This 1 percent situation is pissing people off and the minimum wage didnt budge for awhile. The people are getting weary.docpoz
- New York would be a war zone if it wasnt for welfare. 70,000 homeless in NYC!!!docpoz
- The middle class was feeling the crunch under the last recession. Lets see what happens. French revolution part 2 seemed plausible under Obama hahadocpoz
- A strong middle class and is still the key to successdocpoz
- or at least a great barometerdocpoz
- *********
ok, your turn.docpoz - alright lets see how many comments a qbn post can take. alot of what marx says is wrong.deathboy
- starting with the evolution of capitalism. capitalism is an evolution of any collectivist undertaking separating individuals from the collectivedeathboy
- feudalism, tribalism is all still a form of collectivism and their is no scientific or objective laws of economic history.deathboy
- marx has a social theory based on the idea of a ruling class and everyone else acting in line like ants. Ants are a species that would work for marxdeathboy
- no ant is an individual and they all work for the whole. however humans are not ants despite how much people who desire rule to believe.deathboy
- perhaps if humans were like ants marx thesis would have any merit. but since theyre not his theory unravels.deathboy
- as far as trying to elevate workers. workers exist because someone created a job for them or a need. chicken or egg. if the job didnt exist neither would thedeathboy
- worker. this tells you workers are secondary and at the mercy of a market creator. they do not create anything. but what do they do?deathboy
- they are a important market signal, or even herd signal in a free environment not ruled by a king or slave maker telling them what to do.deathboy
- through wage exceptance and participation they show what works most beneficially for everyone. for the most part a lot of idiots buy apple and those products ardeathboy
- e shit, but i never said markets cant be wrong or go through correction periods. As far as any idea of democracy working for workers or populacedeathboy
- the mob is the mother of all tyrants. why us is a republic and separate from the idea of democracy and should remain small because of democracydeathboy
- the scariest thing is democratic rule or mob rule. You want objective laws. Not FDR bill of rights bullshit but rationale rule.deathboy
- because democratic rule results in 51% taking from the 49% ruthlessly and with pride. This is why all collectivist systems end in chaos and tyrannydeathboy
- As far as middleclass goes you are right it needs to be strong, but what you believe would help it would hurt it. again read hayek. a perfect example is govdeathboy
- recent role ... recent being more post great depression and wwII with the central banking. albeit we got a reserve currency and a ton of manipulation to help usdeathboy
- it displays a large central planning ethic of forcing growth. The biggest cause of wealth disparity has not been from a free market but the gov, rules,deathboy
- regulations and monetary policy. things marx would have thought he could have controlled. its human hubris to think you can control it. why hayek is rightdeathboy
- admitting central planning ignorance as socrates did on knowledge. understanding the human desire to try and controldeathboy
- think of economics and hayek like the buddha. similar thinking while islam and christianity are more like socialism. replacing a god with a king or boarddeathboy
- personally i think the best thing trump ever did was get powell in the fed. despite all the peopel upset their asset prices will go down a higher interest ratedeathboy
- will help raise people to middleclass again. as interest rates went down and dollar crushed asset prices rose, homes, stocks etc. this helped push a wider gapdeathboy
- diminish savings from individuals with no buffer to risk and bet, while padding the bottom lines of the rich and wealthy. not to mention if u ever look at thedeathboy
- the rise of stocks and see the increase around 1982 with the accidental invention of passive investing in 401kdeathboy
- where you put up 100% percent capital and 100% risk and see 30% profit after 50yrs or so, while managers cash out instantly and so do banksdeathboy
- this is central planned monetary policy that has created such wealth gaps. this is where govs should have no role. the majority of quips you have are gov madedeathboy
- and the idea individuals are not made of self greed just look again at how many participate in 401ks. just trying to get a easy buck as told.deathboy
- if you ask me the problem goes back to education. not higher edu or college but basic. the way we are taught to think and react to the world and understanddeathboy
- our methods of education are designed by the socialist leader types you'd adore. I for one would get rid of grading and arbitrary benchmarksdeathboy
- no longer let people think they have no need to think for themselves. Mostly go private with edu and mae parents more involved than think of the sytem as daycardeathboy
- and maybe also increase the burden and think twice about the real toughness of children and who nows without social programs maybe cut down on popdeathboy
- ulation to better the human impact of climate change. You have canada that pays you for every kid and chian that use to ban them. hopefully through market forcedeathboy
- s and real education you need neither.deathboy
- Again you have the intention of wanting better but your approach is wrong. Not the first nor the last to take it, but it is.You think I want something differentdeathboy
- we want the same. our approaches are different. however whenever your approach wins ppl suffer, and whenever my approach wins ppl benefitdeathboy
- how has hong kong done by itself? south korea vs north korea, chile vs brazil, us vs world. a reason people want to immigrate here instead of norwaydeathboy
- at least humor the idea everythign you know is wrong and ask yourself if you are ok with it? if not that could be the problem. alot of ppl dont like to be wrongdeathboy
- ××××docpoz
- ××××docpoz
- So do you think marx theory ccouldbe applied to linited sectors like education?
I can understand your explanation and I really will not try to argue against itdocpoz - Where do you draw the line between noncommercial socialism like libraries and private institutions?docpoz
- Where do you draw the line between noncommercial socialism like libraries and private institutions?docpoz
- xxxxxdeathboy
- xxxxxdeathboy
- I don't think his methods would be good anywhere for individuals. any method of control or force for some leaders end goal or greater good is bound to faildeathboy
- men are fallible and they have limited knowledge and ability to accurately gauge what is needed and when to have any real sense of controldeathboy
- probably worth noting too on the education front here edu used to not be so pricey and was affordable. there are a few things that made it blow updeathboy
- first one is gov backed loans. loans that can't be defaulted on and guaranteed by taxpayers. this is a huge win for banks guaranteed moneydeathboy
- second a culture (i suspect PR from banks) that going to college is a must and a great ideal. first loans guaranteed only sciences and engineeringdeathboy
- but than the gov rules changed and colleges could offer degrees in anything and classes and idea strengthened you have to go no matter whatdeathboy
- most degrees and classes in higher edu are a joke, and colleges also packaged them into plans like cable companies for degrees. college is after all a productdeathboy
- guaranteed money on colleges and competition and losing sight of real "value" makes them spend crazy chasing "prestige" building and having the latest.deathboy
- a behavior not unlike to humans that just have money given to them without any sense of earning it. no desire even to control costs jsut knowing in this culturedeathboy
- they don't have too. i think the best thing possible for higher edu and general is to gut dept of edu, and stop guaranteeing loansdeathboy
- bring a sense of responsibility back to individuals and institutions. also gut a lot of licensing and minimum wage laws with internsdeathboy
- for many many fields the best education comes from learning on the job. remember i couldnt get a job in this field fro the longest time or even talk to someonedeathboy
- I didn't have a degree. had work, but no degree. that culture also needs to change in that people look at that as some sort of "authentication". its just andeathboy
- expensive piece of paper, however its a bit of nice social engineering. like a frat. 2 groups of people ones in lots of debt who paid their dues, and those whodeathboy
- didn't. it creates a sort of bias. and they need to believe it sets them above. you can walk into a class for free, but you wont get a piece of paper statingdeathboy
- you did. its kind of a bad joke. also they're becoming quite toxic now with the people who never leave and teach. its less about knowledge and more about culturdeathboy
- e, the meetings my buddy has as a designer over there weekly about PC stuff is insane. just there to build website and 4 hour long cry sessions and the wastedeathboy
- and glut. they throw out applications of white sounding names, they higher people who are not very good and just shrug and say well probably the best we can findeathboy
- d, at a good amount of money and benefits, and the projects they work on are never ending. 2.5 years and not one real project completed. this is what happensdeathboy
- when guaranteed others money. healthcare same problems from too much insurance, which became a culture thing after wage freezes in wwII. bad policy with gooddeathboy
- intentions set forth, no one admitting the errors and always doubling down because fixing it is political suicide.deathboy
- as far as collectivist ideology goes i think it works best in small groups of volunteers. ppl with real similar interests and same desires. charities churches,deathboy
- clean up programs, etc.. as far as public things like libraries and common interests I think there is room for those. if you have a gov not taxing too much anddeathboy
- having a surplus of funds you could try to democratically ask the people what they would like with the funds, a park here, or a fire dept there, or librarydeathboy
- but its slippery slope and people have to keep their politicians in check. because its easy for a mayor to overspend or accept bids on projects for personaldeathboy
- gain and prestige. most people are not principled enough to be in those positions. remember even marge on simpsons floundered the powerdeathboy
- power does corrupt. and its why you should have limited gov, less federal regulations and let each state compete and find what their citizens desire.deathboy
- I would never live in NY or CA, those places are ran like the colleges right now with never ending spending and debt. also hate how they try to get fed rulesdeathboy
- that benefit only them and their constituents. take minimum wage for example. that would destroy many small towns and midwest places. or you'd simple forcedeathboy
- people into working illegally and make ppl scared of each other with reporting like you see in some dystopian moviedeathboy
- at the end of the day the problem I think is finding good public officials. The george washingtons types that didn't even want the job.deathboy
- on the 13&god track walk there is a interview track " i believe angrily that no man should be a boss if they want too, he abuses authority, i don't want to be adeathboy
- boss, i am the boss..." i don't know what its sampled from. I don't have a solution for better candidates, there might not be, so i preferdeathboy
- policy that gives them very strict and limited power. Seeing them as servants once again. Because right now all they do is bribe us with our money for votesdeathboy
- selling liberties and special interests, which they should never have the power to sell. but tocqueville called it "The American Republic will endure until thedeathboy
- day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." and "Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavdeathboy
- ery than unequal in freedom."deathboy
- ***
did you seriously bring up marge simpson?
hadocpoz - Lately I've been really thinking that its all entrophy and thermodynamics of systems. Our freedom and system will eventually fail as all societies ever have asdeathboy
- seasons change. and i should careless about it all. like climate change its only folly and hubris to think you can stop it or change it. to battle entrophy takedeathboy
- a lot of energy and in the sense of time a impossibility.deathboy
- a good read you might like is island by aldous huxley. a fictional novel of a ideal collectivist society and its inner workings and downfall be free radicalsdeathboy
- its probably the best display of a society I imagine you are imagining i have ever seen. but they need like minds, same interests.deathboy
- why tech is going double down on control and social engineering. "One of the principal lessons of our tragic century, which has seen so many millions of innocendeathboy
- ent lives sacrificed in schemes to improve the lot of humanity, is—beware intellectuals. Not merely should they be kept away from the levers of power,deathboy
- they should also be objects of particular suspicion when they seek to offer collective advice."deathboy
- I could go on for days on these topics because they are all interesting, but one has to make some money lest i become a liberal and ask for guaranteed incomedeathboy
- +++
you mean a leftist.docpoz - so are you for privatized prison systems? are you for privatized health care? thoughts on canada?docpoz
- *********
*********docpoz - +++docpoz
- edit: private / commercial over privatizeddocpoz
- +++docpoz
- im not against privatized prisons. but i do questions the laws that make people criminals. a lot of drug stuff I see no wrong doing. And as all private co. dodeathboy
- they lobby for special privileges or rights and I would be very skeptical of the motives. wether it is bottom line or of a real service.deathboy
- as far as healthcare goes it should be very private. and the idea and culture of insurance needs to go away. as my dentist just said when commenting on yea imdeathboy
- one of the embarassing feeling uninsured. Saying yea but you pay less. Insurance as a middleman only job is too make not having them an expense you are too scardeathboy
- ed or capable to afford. insurance goal is to drive prices higher from an individual perspective but payable on the collective scale.deathboy
- never has insurance in all of history been a nice thing. always a gamble from parties looking to hedge their bets the bestdeathboy
- I think the majority of do not need insurance except dertrimental insurance. the cancer stuff. again if you look at heathcare costs you will see they have beendeathboy
- driven largely because of gov policy and the market demographics policy caters too. the end of life stuff. or .0001% better procedures that by a little timedeathboy
- at exponential costs, because individuals are removed from valuing them and pushed upon a unknowledgable collective.deathboy
- would any family member suggest to their family they liquidate all their assets for a risky procedure that might by months to a couple years?deathboy
- Id say no. But if they don;t have to ask their family and their direct values are removed from the equation you can see how they might think it should happendeathboy
- also in the worst of the worst situations with sob stories of someone with no means and all the chance being neglected do to money is a mythdeathboy
- or largely a myth. cant say it hasn't happened, but a myth of empathetic fear. docs back in the day largely worked with out pay. any one hear of doctors turningdeathboy
- people away from lack of payment before insurance in the early 1900s before insurance got its product pushed by wage controls.deathboy
- it didn't happen the same way doctors in poor countries still work. Simply because many people who aspire to be doctors get paid in a different valuedeathboy
- than money. Pride, self-satisfaction, etc. But culturally we have changed market. Students who learn to be better vs paying to get paid later.deathboy
- the AMA wants to over license and keep the doctor pool limited through intense training and costs. after all a union and there goal is to keep wages up fordeathboy
- their own. many of our doctors get most of the education outside US, and do finishing classes here for licensing all because theyre chasing the moneydeathboy
- and its fine to chase money as value. in doing so they also see a lot more than domestic people see goign straight to our institutions and probably betterdeathboy
- for it. but i wonder if the ama and licensing restrictions were less if there would be more practitioners to help lower costs.deathboy
- quality even with regulation is always speculative. i dont know if licensing means as much especially considering todays connectivity of peoplr and social mediadeathboy
- the idea of licensing was when communication was a lot harder. you pay a approve board to say yay or nay, and people believe the board. but now you can readdeathboy
- tons of reviews and make own judgements. i wouldnt go to a surgeon that has a high failure rate on social media. however i cant even accurately make a decisiondeathboy
- when hospitals collectively collect individuals. and kind of spread the information as a whole.deathboy
- as far as private insurance goes check these guys out https://surgerycente…deathboy
- even offering financing now but you can see their pricing and look at equivalent insurance payments and see the huge price reductiondeathboy
- labor vs insurance. or freelancer vs agency pricing. healthcare is only as pricey as it is because of ppl trying to "help"deathboy
- ++++
ok. thats an interesting point, yes. there are layers to the way these industries are integrated. wish i could help there. perhaps an economistdocpoz - ha economists. Like climate scientists with fewer variables trying to decipher markets. Some get lucky, most don't. Fundamentals are key in long run. TIming fordeathboy
- short run. However economists who study market philosophy like hayek/mises are worth a damn, and are very socratic. And keynes/krugman who are more douchy platodeathboy
- types who know enough to deceive themselves in their conclusionsdeathboy
- and thanks for not being an insulting asshat. really do appreciate adult like behavior in conversation of differing opinions.deathboy
- too many ppl get corrupted by this sense of power of freedom offered by anonymity and just wreck it. some probably best to be controlled by societal guiltdeathboy
- and other machinations of control created and decided upon without real freedom of ideas.deathboy
- ++
a dude who knew a dude told me this story about an economist that had the answer...the perfect economical model. he was eventually silenceddocpoz - i went on vacation. the idea of a perfect economical is no different than the idea of a philosopher stone. there is nonedeathboy
- the idea of a market is more chaos theory. it cannot be controlled. everyone who thinks it has been proven wrong.deathboy
- too many variables. yes if we could create a population who was unified like a stupid ant we could control economy more to certain endsdeathboy
- but we are not. and all guises of all leaders with the approach are to increase their own well being. the idea a single person will elevate the tribedeathboy
- of the world is nonsense. they have limited amount of emotional connectionsdeathboy
- i'd look up dunbar's number research for your own opinion. i dont take it as a correct model but a realistic and objective modeldeathboy
- 150 or 500 or 1000 is still a limited amount of true connections before we pair and stereotype and generalize in order to make decisions. another call for smalldeathboy
- gov. and why its important.deathboy
- yeah it was his "friend" ha. probably an urban legenddocpoz
- well with all respect doc ill likely not visit this again. i know there are follow threads and such but dont participate. just want to say probably notdeathboy
- watching it. but was fun. and thanksdeathboy
- docpoz-1
- hotroddy-12
- a_aNairn
- LOL, that's totally how socialism works.zarkonite
- let the downvoting beginhotroddy
- LolPhanLo
- What do you know...The same meme shared on Fox and Friends everyday for the past two years, then Epstein commits suicide.utopian
- he committed suicide over this meme? more reason to upvote it.hotroddy
- wrong threadfadein11
- -1 for terrible screenshot cropfooler
- Teach your kids about capitalism by making them clean the bathroomi_monk
- Then, pay them 10 dollars
Then take 7 of those dollarsi_monk - And give those seven dollars to their rich friend who didn't worki_monk
- I bet your child won't be a a capitalist for long.i_monk
- but i monk you just described socialism as well. probably the more realistic version of socialism. well maybe give 1 dollar to peopel and 6 to insidersdeathboy
- once you allow a state to tax with impunity and redistribute wealth, it doesn't matter if it goes to the connected or the poor. thats socialism.deathboy
- doesn't this meme relate to Cortez (not even an actual socialist) suggesting a 70% tax bracket? that kicks in > £550,000 income. relatable content.kingsteven
- it's just so factually wrong, where do you start?kingsteven
- Look at Lula, Kirchner, and Chavez all 'socialist' and embezzled millions. Their creed is 'capitalism for me. socialism for youhotroddy
- Cortez is chavez re-incargnated. Same populist rhetoric. The white man's capitalist agenda is oppressing you and keeping you down.hotroddy
- deathboy: you forgot about profit margins. The parent as the employer takes $7 for himself and pays his employee $3 then take half of the $3 in taxes, but onlyzarkonite
- $1 from the employer because he's a job creator and deserves to benefit more from the labour of his workers than they do. That's capitalismzarkonite
- the employer deserves to be rewarded. he's taking a risk. why else would you start a business?hotroddy
- why do people world wide want to invest in US companies?hotroddy
- no zarkonite the 7 taken represents taxes. You dont pay 10 than take 7%. Leaving the employer with 3% as profit margin before costs of business which lessen itdeathboy
- the argument of the old 70% tax rate. But even after taxes if a job creator can only see maybe a 1% profit margin while risking everything is it worth it?deathboy
- do you think many people will be employed if less job creators out there risking a lot for something worth it?deathboy
- socialists think through high enough taxes they can create jobs and pay peopel to fullfill them outside market forcesdeathboy
- you probably have a portfolio and understand risk. you wont get much gains in low risk investment. there becomes a point where the value isnt worth itdeathboy
- the problem with central planning for labor is they cannot determine what is of value efficiently and quickly to provide incetives to guide marketsdeathboy
- historically they ruin them through political squabble creating such low incentives no one has incentive to carry anyone.deathboy
- oh jeez.. screwed up my own base. Employer pays you 10 dollars. Employer cost on those ten are more like say 12-13 w/ taxes. 7 is taken from the governmentdeathboy
- leaving employee with 3. We do not know the profit margin of the labor. In this case not profit.. but as payer and taxer they take and redistribute labor todeathboy
- others that didn't earn. splitting the 7 as tax to social program, universal income whatever you want to call it. the one earning wont be a scoialistdeathboy
- those getting free shit will be. sad thing is you can see how majority rule will work here with one earner and 3 siblings. why democracy fails and republicsdeathboy
- work. for the most part... still have entrophy to deal with. but it make sense on dog level treat incentivitizingdeathboy
- entrophy isn’t a word. It’s entropy and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH ECONOMICSmonospaced
- Physics and economics are separate fields and aren’t related. One is natural the other is not. One based on laws the other not.monospaced
- @hotroddy - you hate the corrupt individuals, stop blaming the system.fadein11
- jeez mono triggered by spelling? :( . Curious who told you economics is not natural? True markets are as natural AF. The problem is in the alteration of marketsdeathboy
- is there a set entrophy(trigger tigger) to any system? Is a market a system? Could entrophy be the gov and regs that eventually ruin a free system?deathboy
- do you really not see how it all works together even after explanation. i get before. but after? you haven't even expressed a rational hangup.deathboy
- we humans are matter correct? we have energy and expend it correct? A closed changing system in which transfer from a ehalthy system can only be direct towarddeathboy
- unhealthy.. or some say equal, science says inert which have quite different meanings. You dont need to talk physics to talk systems and if you google economicdeathboy
- and thermodynamics you see im not making shit up. ppl have come to some same conclusions. dont get caught up in the details, its abstract thinkingdeathboy
- deathboy you are an absolute looper. most people get through their liberalism/economics... phase when they're in their teens.kingsteven
- you're taking something like thermoeconomics (which models human behaviour top down) and twisting it in an attempt to prove a logical existencekingsteven
- bottom up... you're picking and choosing theories simplify your agenda. try a bit of self-examination, altruism, understanding of other perspectives ...kingsteven
- to me it seems that the views you express in theory support equality but assume an equal start in the race... it's not that simple and if your not continuallykingsteven
- examining your own privilege and understand altruistic aims of socialism - to support the weakest in society first there's no conversation to be had.kingsteven
- @fadein. Socialist policies lead to corruption. The power bureaucrats hold over businesses will corrupt inevitably corrupt them. humans are all falliblehotroddy
- ha my agenda is truth. @king you had me altruism. show me such a thing is not a selfish independent desire. And in theory i do support equality in an equal racedeathboy
- you seem to think your godlike central planner hand can alter the race to be fair. taking from some and giving to others. no reason to it. Just whim.deathboy
- if anything age has taught me how stupid an idea that is. what infallable central planner is needed outside any balance of power to decide?deathboy
- As far as my privilege.. the only privilege i have is being born in the us. im white trash as fuck and earned everything i've achieved.deathboy
- and have you ever thought of basic darwinism when trying to support the weakest? or ever increased economics impact of negative gains?deathboy
- humans have some concepts where they get selfish feelie dopamine hits chasing self defeating concepts. what you are chasing is one of thosedeathboy
- these concepts are built in logical fallicies in language to describe and perceive the world. if you look at lesser evolved species you see they dont sufferdeathboy
- from such BS. with greater intelligence comes greater responsibility. and unfortunately gov+educators not helpingdeathboy
- hell explain how supporting the weakest is good for society understanding basic darwinism, or do you prescribe to the meek will rule religious doctrine whichdeathboy
- socialism is a derivative ofdeathboy
- mate, you are fucking brainwashed by 20th century anti communist economic ideology. i've explained multiple times that i'm not a socialist.kingsteven
- a while ago you're trying to use thermoeconomics to prove your point, a massive part of what modern economic theories have shown is that homo-economicus is BSkingsteven
- not only are you talking through your asshole your perpetuating theories that are destroying the planet. these theories may have struck a chord with you becausekingsteven
- you're not a terrible person that feels powerful but needs to justify being a cunt to make a dollar. please read a book published after 1950.kingsteven
- *powerlesskingsteven
- Economics aren't natural, markets aren't natural, and thermodynamics has NOTHING TO DO WITH ECONOMICS. Entrophy isn't a word.monospaced
- wrong again. laissez faire economics is so natural it's bordering on darwinism.hotroddy
- @kingsteven - I live in California (liberal state) and you are correct that I pay as much taxes as my canadian brotheran. Public transportation is the shits.hotroddy
- My checks get lost in US post office - only good and reliable for the 3 pounds of daily junk mailhotroddy
- my point is I cringe to see what public healthcare would look like. We are not Canada, and not Norway.hotroddy
- trust me it's better than your shack of shit system.fadein11
- 'laissez faire economics' don't function though. Adam Smith never imagined an Absolutely Competitive Market. Gov't needs to pay for everything capitalism can't.Nairn
- /won't.Nairn
- king you say im wrong but you cant seem to articulate why a single pint i make is incorrect. where did my reasoning fail?deathboy
- like state why altruism is real thing devoid of self interest? Throughout history can you name the perfect central planner? Or best outcome you have seen so wedeathboy
- can measure in stance to our current standards and look wether its worth it?deathboy
- And also explain why so many central plans have failed and doomed civilians to poverty and despair?deathboy
- Definitely need to look at success rate and failures and see what is the difference. One big one is nordic systems praised rely heavily on free market economicsdeathboy
- where huge failures took free markets out of the picture and tried full control. You say Im wrong, but you need to back it up with some substance. you cant justdeathboy
- say youre wrong.real world doesnt work that waydeathboy
- maybe you think I'm unwilling to accept any social safety net. Im ok with a small one and one that doesn't encourage any dead beat behavior. and with anydeathboy
- safety net one must be concerned a blowhard expanding such net for votes is likely to happen. I have no solution for prevention of that except red tapedeathboy
- but altruism has nothign to do with such intentions. its quite selfish. ill pay school taxes without having kids because it keeps them from looting me while atdeathboy
- work and hopefully keeping a strong foundation however edu, especially higher is worse than church on sunday.deathboy
- and even that is jsut a rationalization for tax taking. do i really want to give up 200 a month to others kids daycare? If i had the choice i'd keep it and putdeathboy
- razorwire and a healthy dog with big teeth. i think the way you see the post 1950 rhetoric is brainwashing of cake and eating it too. ignoring the individualdeathboy
- and focusing on the collective similar to pre 1950s, just not many rationale voices these days that can say things any better than the past.deathboy
- king you also seem accept real equality, but waver in terms of those born without certain tools. Many also born with tools that flounder as circumstance.deathboy
- seems to me an emotional response devoid of reasoning. wanting the best for everyone and having a hard time letting go it wont happendeathboy
- and mono you truely have showed your small understanding declaring markets are not natural. i expected as muchdeathboy
- but im pretty positive im only giving you value through argument. like king i also hope for more but need to accept some ppl are worthlessdeathboy
- and will never improve which is what really bites me in the balls. the idea if given every opportunity to improve and never happen.it hoenstly makes me want todeathboy
- write you off. as lower class. a sentiment i can see amongst differing classes. however. to write off is to have blinders. rather not go all hamptons.deathboy
- but you sure do make it hard with your non sense. I cannot implore you enough to truely look at what you think you know and why you think itdeathboy
- okay, maybe you are just a cunt. no person is worthless. and mono is spot on with how he's trying to explain but honestly if you claim to have read any modernkingsteven
- economic theory and haven't come to the conclusion that laissez-faire economics has failed. i'm not sure i can help you.kingsteven
- maybe it failed for you.hotroddy
- haha failed modern economic theory. a new age way of saying i dont know shit how to responddeathboy
- king if you agree with mono that economics is not natural as physics please explain. id love to hear your reasondeathboy
- when you simply say no no no i just will never accept that cowardice, reminds me of ppl scared of homos going no no no. ideas that are scarydeathboy
- Economics deal with money, which is a purely human thought concept. Laws and constants that control and bind the universe are not.monospaced
- Money and economics could disappear tomorrow and there would be no real impact. Alter even one aspect of physics and the universe doesn't exist anymore.monospaced
- economics deal with much more than money mono its a social "science" and its aspects are bound by the same physical laws we see in science. the problem is thinkdeathboy
- ing we are above it and can control it like baking a cake. demeaning its true role and what it is. Money and economics cant disappear, and if perception of itdeathboy
- did it would have a huge impact. Im not saying its as easily alterable as physics. im just saying as natural as physics and physical lawsdeathboy
- some politicians do think it can be easily altered. but such alterations exude great energy in closed environments and not practicaldeathboy
- hell basic econ 101 is darwinism based in a rule of law society with a form of value with high liquidity that can not easily be altered.deathboy
- here you go basic econ mono https://www.youtube.…deathboy
- and entertainingdeathboy
- and mono. if the economy went away and you wanted a little food. how do you get it? Purchase it with stocks? Abstract wealth that doesn't matter. through outdeathboy
- history societies have gone through econ checks that you think don't matter. those who survived have a bit more common sense about what is necessary to survive.deathboy
- i still think goethe nailed it. and value is only what you can hold and protect that providesdeathboy
- real problem is people trying to discuss things they cant even keep up with. full of set opinions but no idea how they even got them.deathboy
- yeah, you... you fucking toolkingsteven
- uh huh king. u did notice you didn't even argue a point about modern economic theory vs laize faire. Go read some hayek make an arguement against itdeathboy
- your "modern" is nothing new. Greek and romans both tried it. It didn't end well... Did you ever read goethe?deathboy
- That shit wasn't as old as romans and greeks but late 1700s early 1800s is quite old to explain the idea of MMT so well. and its method is beautiful.deathboy
- utopian-1
- omahadesigns-4
Made $30k the other day in one day.
- Good for you. What stock?NBQ00
- Or is it just recouping losses from the crash?NBQ00
- We need an Investment of the Day thread omaharobotron3k
- You sold it?monospaced
- robotron3k-6
- Where have you been? At least 35 million Americans have already been laid off?
#MAGA2020 For Lifeutopian - No, real layoff are starting, not furloughs...robotron3k
- don't worry @robo that will go away like a miracle toorenderedred
- 30+ million people were laid off at the end of April, today is May 11th. This isn't Fox News, Breitbart or OAN...facts matter.utopian
- laid off due to gov quarantine restrictions right utopian? mandate central planning that is opposite of capitalism right?deathboy
- tippy top!inteliboy
- Where have you been? At least 35 million Americans have already been laid off?
- omahadesigns-3
Bezos has $204,000,000,000 dollars.
But if the stock has a bad day, he is worth slightly less.
Where does that money go?
- utopian-3
Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk increased their wealth by $217 billion in 2020. For this amount, over 100 million Americans could get $2,000 checks.
Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk alone increased their net worth by $217 billion last year, according to Bloomberg.
For this amount, more than 100 million Americans can receive $2,000 checks.
Collectively, the net worth of the world's 500 richest people rose to about $1.8 trillion, a 31% increase that represents the largest annual gain in the eight years that Bloomberg has tracked these figures.
- Destroy them all.face_melter
- Not their fault that the US is in the shitter currently but their wealth is going up. They created businesses that people want and pay for it and see value in.NBQ00
- That said, I can't stand Bezos and the fact that Amazon pays their factory workers like shit while making such big profits.NBQ00
- Musk created nothing and Bezos started his adventure with a few hundred thousands from his parents.face_melter
- lolNBQ00
- palimpsest-5
The rich are not the problem, the problem are the poor.
- Deep.NBQ00
- Keep the rich, get rid of the poor.
How do you like them apples?palimpsest - Yes round them up and shoot ‚em all. Poverty ended.NBQ00
- LOL
You didn't have to show your hand so early in the game.palimpsest - LolGnash
- You’re poor.monospaced
- You are percipient.palimpsest
- I'm sure you're of those people that think that there's nothing wrong with being poor.palimpsest
- Hedgefund lives matterGnash
- https://i.imgur.com/…
: )palimpsest - you clowns, we're all poormonospaced
- You identify as poor? I'm sure you're going to teach me a lot about poverty.
Fucking clown.palimpsest - Yes. I have a house worth less than $1M, I have 1 kid, and my retirement might be sufficient for us. That's borderline poverty in relation to what wealthy is.monospaced
- LolzGnash
- Oh shit, you actually went full Bozo.
Bravo, bravissimo!palimpsest
- NBQ00-1
- NBQ00-1
- NBQ00-1
- NBQ00-1
- grafician-2
"Executives of hedge fund Renaissance Technologies LLC will personally pay approximately $7 billion in back taxes, interest andpenalties to settle a long-running dispute with the Internal Revenue Service, the firm said, a tax settlement that may be the largest in history.
James Simons —the quantitative-investing pioneer who started Renaissance before retiring as the firm’s chairman on Jan. 1—will make an additional “settlement payment” of $670 million, according to the firm. Mr. Simons will also pay back taxes related to his gains.
The dispute relates to moves the firm’s key Medallion fund took between 2005 and 2015 to convert short-term trading gains into long-term profits. It has been closely followed in the worlds of finance and politics because of the enormous amounts involved and because Renaissance’s leaders are among the largest political donors in the U.S.
Mr. Simons has been a long-term supporter of Democratic candidates—while Robert Mercer, another Renaissance executive, has backed Republican causes, including former President Donald Trump."
- Morning_star-5
What is rich?
There’s lots of posts here that criticise the ‘rich’ or request some further taxation or redistribution of wealth and I struggle to understand what (financially) rich means. It’s become a meaningless totemic word for perceived financial insensitivity or vulgar displays of wealth.
I’d imagine that most, if not all of the contributors to QBN are in the global top 1% of earners, and by that comparison we are all ‘rich’. Yet, I’d also imagine that those that support a more socialist approach to redistribution are likely to be amongst the folk that would be most effected if their suggestions ever came to light.
Targeting an incredibly small group of celebrity billionaires as the problem seems dumb and naive.
So what is ‘rich’ and what would ‘tax the rich’ actually mean?
- Probably means “make those who earn (a lot of) money pay the actual amounts of tax they should be paying, and not sidestepping their dues”hardhat
- Which tax? Personal taxation, corporate taxation, taxes on goods and services, tax on gifts and inheritance, regional taxes, tax on income? The types of tax...Morning_star
- ...are complex, imperfect and prone to exploitation. What is wrong with using the imperfection to reduce the amount you pay? We ALL do it.Morning_star
- Prince Andrew is a nonce, but he's using legal methods to not get prosecuted for being a dirty fucking nonce. Just because it's legal doesn't make it ok.PhanLo
- You have to remember that most people don’t have any way to exploit the system (mainly the bottom row tax payers) whereby the top tier have a multitude of wayshardhat
- Which they do so royally. Just because a system *can* be exploited, doesn’t mean it should be, or that it’s “right” to do so.hardhat
- A lot of tax dodging is just plain immoral, and indefensible. That’s my take on it in any case.hardhat
- It’s not the same. Let’s assume Andrew is guilty (as we don’t actually know) then he’s done something illegal and subject to prosecution. What have the Rich...Morning_star
- ...done that’s illegal? And again, just what consitutes Rich?Morning_star
- @hardhat, if it isn’t illegal why is reducing the amount you pay immoral?Morning_star
- The absolute exploitation of workers? No-one becomes a billionaire without breaking the backs of those under them and profiting from their labour.face_melter
- I think the term is just shorthand for “people who earn more should pay more” which if you think about it, is quite a good ideahardhat
- The wider issue is capital. Billionaire cunts are the manifestation of capital and it's utter disregard for people, the environment, society, and human rights.face_melter
- Agreed. But these structures are also just put in place to shield “individuals” from their tax bills.hardhat
- @face, Isn’t exploiting workers illegal?Morning_star
- Make no mistake, Gates et al would happily flatten the planet if it meant more cash. Especially Gates and his wretched white-man-saviour 'philanthropy'.face_melter
- “People” still run these things and choose to circumvent paying their dues but can put a “we do it for our shareholders” etc as way of justificationhardhat
- Also, do you mean ‘capitalism’?Morning_star
- “We” (I included) are essentially greedy and don’t want to give up the $$ we got. Understandable, but not “right”.hardhat
- @face, are you a fan of a communist system.Morning_star
- @hardhat, I understand what you’re trying to say but it’s not greed. I want the best Life I can afford for me and my family. That lifestyle is radically...Morning_star
- ...different depending on the country you reside in. I won’t apologise for wanting the best I can afford, yet the iPhone I have is manufactured...Morning_star
- ...by an unregulated, un-unionised workforce. Arguably I am just as much part of the problem as Bezos or Cook yet the knives are out for the people who bring us...Morning_star
- ...these products we’re very happy to consume. The whole argument is incredibly hypocritical.Morning_star
- Paying taxes in the country you earn money helps the people living in that country, it makes the society better. How hard is that to understand?PhanLo
- Go to a Scando country and see what the higher taxes pay for.PhanLo
- Roosevelt taxed 75% of 'rich' peoples earnings over a certain amount with the New Deal. Build loads of stuff and gave people work.PhanLo
- @phanlo, I totally agree with you. The financial and political model that the scando countries embrace is possibly the peak of what we can expect...Morning_star
- ...on this planet today. However, they subscribe to a mix of free market and socialists systems depending on what’s best. And it works. The cry of many that...Morning_star
- ...capitalism is evil and socialism is the only answer is crass and unworkable. I’m all for an appropriate mix of the two.Morning_star
- With regard to Tax, the system is fucked and until it’s simplified and the loopholes addressed then painting those who exploit the inadequacies as...Morning_star
- ...evil is idiotic and missing the point entirely.Morning_star
- @morning - I think we’re pretty much on the same side here. I was just saying “people should pay what they should pay” at its simplesthardhat
- And agree - loopholes need to be closed. We all want “the best” but “taxing the rich” is just saying we want things to be fair and that often they skirt payinghardhat
- grafician-1
"Warren Buffett makes over $120 billion on Apple's rise to $3 trillion, among his best bets ever"
"The 5% Apple stake Berkshire Hathaway acquired in 2018 for $36 billion is now worth $160 billion as the tech giant hit the $3 trillion milestone.
Warren Buffett's conglomerate has also enjoyed regular dividends from Apple, averaging about $775 million annually.
Berkshire's Apple stake now makes up more than 40% of its equity portfolio."
