capitalism

Out of context: Reply #811

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  • Morning_star-5

    What is rich?

    There’s lots of posts here that criticise the ‘rich’ or request some further taxation or redistribution of wealth and I struggle to understand what (financially) rich means. It’s become a meaningless totemic word for perceived financial insensitivity or vulgar displays of wealth.

    I’d imagine that most, if not all of the contributors to QBN are in the global top 1% of earners, and by that comparison we are all ‘rich’. Yet, I’d also imagine that those that support a more socialist approach to redistribution are likely to be amongst the folk that would be most effected if their suggestions ever came to light.

    Targeting an incredibly small group of celebrity billionaires as the problem seems dumb and naive.

    So what is ‘rich’ and what would ‘tax the rich’ actually mean?

    Morning_star -5Permalink
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    • Probably means “make those who earn (a lot of) money pay the actual amounts of tax they should be paying, and not sidestepping their dues”hardhat
    • Which tax? Personal taxation, corporate taxation, taxes on goods and services, tax on gifts and inheritance, regional taxes, tax on income? The types of tax...Morning_star
    • ...are complex, imperfect and prone to exploitation. What is wrong with using the imperfection to reduce the amount you pay? We ALL do it.Morning_star
    • Prince Andrew is a nonce, but he's using legal methods to not get prosecuted for being a dirty fucking nonce. Just because it's legal doesn't make it ok.PhanLo
    • You have to remember that most people don’t have any way to exploit the system (mainly the bottom row tax payers) whereby the top tier have a multitude of wayshardhat
    • Which they do so royally. Just because a system *can* be exploited, doesn’t mean it should be, or that it’s “right” to do so.hardhat
    • A lot of tax dodging is just plain immoral, and indefensible. That’s my take on it in any case.hardhat
    • It’s not the same. Let’s assume Andrew is guilty (as we don’t actually know) then he’s done something illegal and subject to prosecution. What have the Rich...Morning_star
    • ...done that’s illegal? And again, just what consitutes Rich?Morning_star
    • @hardhat, if it isn’t illegal why is reducing the amount you pay immoral?Morning_star
    • The absolute exploitation of workers? No-one becomes a billionaire without breaking the backs of those under them and profiting from their labour.face_melter
    • I think the term is just shorthand for “people who earn more should pay more” which if you think about it, is quite a good ideahardhat
    • The wider issue is capital. Billionaire cunts are the manifestation of capital and it's utter disregard for people, the environment, society, and human rights.face_melter
    • Agreed. But these structures are also just put in place to shield “individuals” from their tax bills.hardhat
    • @face, Isn’t exploiting workers illegal?Morning_star
    • Make no mistake, Gates et al would happily flatten the planet if it meant more cash. Especially Gates and his wretched white-man-saviour 'philanthropy'.face_melter
    • “People” still run these things and choose to circumvent paying their dues but can put a “we do it for our shareholders” etc as way of justificationhardhat
    • Also, do you mean ‘capitalism’?Morning_star
    • “We” (I included) are essentially greedy and don’t want to give up the $$ we got. Understandable, but not “right”.hardhat
    • @face, are you a fan of a communist system.Morning_star
    • @hardhat, I understand what you’re trying to say but it’s not greed. I want the best Life I can afford for me and my family. That lifestyle is radically...Morning_star
    • ...different depending on the country you reside in. I won’t apologise for wanting the best I can afford, yet the iPhone I have is manufactured...Morning_star
    • ...by an unregulated, un-unionised workforce. Arguably I am just as much part of the problem as Bezos or Cook yet the knives are out for the people who bring us...Morning_star
    • ...these products we’re very happy to consume. The whole argument is incredibly hypocritical.Morning_star
    • Paying taxes in the country you earn money helps the people living in that country, it makes the society better. How hard is that to understand?PhanLo
    • Go to a Scando country and see what the higher taxes pay for.PhanLo
    • Roosevelt taxed 75% of 'rich' peoples earnings over a certain amount with the New Deal. Build loads of stuff and gave people work.PhanLo
    • @phanlo, I totally agree with you. The financial and political model that the scando countries embrace is possibly the peak of what we can expect...Morning_star
    • ...on this planet today. However, they subscribe to a mix of free market and socialists systems depending on what’s best. And it works. The cry of many that...Morning_star
    • ...capitalism is evil and socialism is the only answer is crass and unworkable. I’m all for an appropriate mix of the two.Morning_star
    • With regard to Tax, the system is fucked and until it’s simplified and the loopholes addressed then painting those who exploit the inadequacies as...Morning_star
    • ...evil is idiotic and missing the point entirely.Morning_star
    • @morning - I think we’re pretty much on the same side here. I was just saying “people should pay what they should pay” at its simplesthardhat
    • And agree - loopholes need to be closed. We all want “the best” but “taxing the rich” is just saying we want things to be fair and that often they skirt payinghardhat
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