Atheists.
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- combustion0
antro d'imbecis ...
- blaw0
We definitely need a "Religion" thread where you guys can regularly go to throw rocks at each other.
- islandbridge0
This is why The United States needs much more Atheism...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486…
- kelpie0
The Nutcase Slice is an important part of the balance of any society, they've always been there and always will. We tend to throw them up as massively more important than they are these days. Fuck , there is a massive difference between people who have faith and people determined to use faith to sabotage reason and progress. They don't make such good tele though, so we tend to think they're a bigger threat than they are.
- Lillebo0
As long as religion has a political agenda it is a serious threat, kelpie. I don't mind people believing in stupid crap as long as their beliefs does not influence other peoples lives..
- gramme0
lawlz @ "fundamentalists". You really think I'm a fundy? Wow... wow.
Disagree with me till you're blue in the face Khurram, but medioce—me? That I take issue with. I am a firm believer in the pursuit of excellence in all things, from faith to photography. Sure, there are mediocre people in all walks of life, but to characterize Christianity as mediocre in and of itself is flat-out ignorant and patently foolish. For the record, I do not consider Buddhism or Hinduism or agnosticism to be mediocre, despite my doctrinal disagreements. One finds brilliant, very non-mediocre people in all religions.
*jaw drops @ wholesale misinformation in this thread
*bangs head on desk until passing out
- gramme0
For the record Khurram (and anyone else who may be curious), a Christian fundamentalist is a person who is so wrapped up with the "letter" of the law, rather than the "spirit" of the law, that they create rules and boundaries in areas where the Bible is completely silent. They add to the word of God, because they dive headfirst into God's laws while missing the POINT of those laws.
Christian fundamentalism gets caught up in adding good works to justification. Fundies are the ones who say it's sinful for a woman to wear a skirt which rises above the knee, that it's sinful to listen to rock music, and that 9/11 was God's retribution against gays and liberals.
There is absolutely nothing in the Bible to support these sort of claims made by fundies, and you should know that I have absolutely nothing to do with these people. I abhor it when Christians discount the sovereignty of God and detract from the infallibility of his word, but I also abhor it when they ADD to the word of God, as if we have anything worthwhile to contribute to our salvation or any way of making ourselves holier.
- TheBlueOne0
Just to play devil's advocate gramme, but when you say "There is absolutely nothing in the Bible to support these sort of claims..." my eyebrow raises a bit, because plenty of people do find support for exactly these things in there. They even get on TV and hang out with Presidents and Senators.
- ..but I understand and agree with you more or less in your above point...TheBlueOne
- Of course they do, because they miss the point driven home literally hundreds of times that the law of God does not save.gramme
- Rather, the law of God reveals his perfection and our imperfection, as well as our irrevocable need for Christ.gramme
- Good works are the product of a changed heart, not the cause of salvation or holiness.gramme
- The Holy Spirit saves AND sanctifies. Period.gramme
- many times passages from the Bible are taken out of context to support one's agendamcLeod
- yup. One must consider the entirely of Scripture before coming to conclusions about any particular passage.gramme
- Just playing Devil's advocate.
*stirs coffeeTheBlueOne - I know :)gramme
- its hard when the person arguing and saying 'thats out of context' is defining 'context'spifflink
- designbot0
"hey're dickheads pure and simple.
mediocre fuckwits. just fuck off aiight? go on, hop it... sling yer hook. "
Khurram....with all sincerity, the animosity you show towards others with different beliefs (especially Christianity) is alarming to say the least. Maybe it just comes out in the way you type, and half it is sarcastic, but seriously dude where is all the hate coming from?
I think it's pretty simple to say regardless of your position, respect goes both ways...I wouldn't say the above things to an atheist or anyone else with different views 'cause it's disrespectful and bad taste.
Other comments like "here come the religious nuts" are also unwarranted. It's like saying you have the right to freedom of speech and beliefs but nobody who disagrees with you does. Obviously if you spout off words that attack someone's deep moral convictions that person is going to defend his/her side. What's wrong with that? Nobody said you had to agree.
- ukit0
Let's just agree there is no war on Christmas. Christmas is not threatened.
- Hell, I love christmas and baby jesus.TheBlueOne
- Merry Christmas, as I like to say. Especially to the jews, moslems and athiests.Just to tick 'em off....TheBlueOne
- ...but to Bill O'Reilly I like to say "Happy Secular Holiday, twat!"TheBlueOne
- *stirs coffee.TheBlueOne
- *pees in TBO's coffeetommyo
- *drinks it anyway cause I'm a tough SOB. smiles at TommyOTheBlueOne
- I did eat asparagus last night though. Just an fyi.tommyo
- Tangy.TheBlueOne
- tommyo0
I just don't fully understand why people of different beliefs need to try and control people who don't agree with them. Personally, I'm an Atheist. When the blond commentator says something like 'We need to stand up and fight for Christianity or soon they'll (Atheists) will have the control!' The control?!?! For shits sake we're talking about PERSONAL BELIEFS here. How'z about you take control of your belief and I take control of mine and we just be happy watching each other celebrate our own personal convictions??
Jewish people get Hanukkah.
Christians get Christmas.
African Americans get a fake holiday (Kwanzaa).
Atheists get no holiday.It's pretty easy. I really don't see why anyone feels the need to desecrate manger scenes or cause a stink when there is a 'Christmas' Parade. It's a fucking Christian holiday, why do other people need to voice their opinion about it? Especially us Atheists.
The political correctness behind all this just makes me ill. Everyone HAS to be equal and included on a day for the Christians - I know Hanukkah is tucked in this season too. It's like if I was having a birthday party and everyone else wanted a cake too because they might feel bad that it's not their birthday.
- +1designbot
- And is she implying that only Christians should have control, and hence fears it's loss. Methinks, yes.TheBlueOne
- Yeah I agree. It's fucking silly. Is your belief so weak that you think it needs protecting?!?tommyo
- if your Atheist , why is only Kwanzaa a fake holiday?BattleAxe
- zingerDrBombay
- I thought it was a hallmark holiday like Valentines day no?tommyo
- I'm okay with sometimes being wrong btw.tommyo
- like a Festivus , got chaBattleAxe
- beast080
It's the nature of faith - no proof means people are all the more keen to protect or insult it. You cannot prove God exists, but then neither can you prove He does not, it winds everyone up.
- gramme0
Tommyo, I agree with you. I for one have no interest in controlling people. If I share my faith with a friend or acquaintance and they become a Christian, that's brilliant but it's not me who saves, it's not me who changes people so that they are "born again", it's the Holy Spirit. It's insufferably arrogant for anyone to believe they can control another person's religious persuasion. Also, it's insufferably obtuse, counterproductive and anti-social to flip out on people with whom we disagree on matters of faith and/or philosophy.
I read on a Christian blog recently where a guy in my very own church was ridiculing someone who chastised him about his tone. He was saying (they guy in my church whose tone was in question) that maybe we need to worry more about the truth and less about tone. The thing is, if in my tone I come across as a self-righteous asshole who cares chiefly about being correct, then I am no longer speaking the truth—because love is THE ultimate truth. If I lack love and respect for fellow men, then who gives a shit if I speak truth—no one will listen to me anyway.
We do need to be very careful when differentiating between defending one's faith and attempting to control other people. Everyone with half a backbone defends whatever they believe. Controlling people is another thing entirely.
- moth0
"We do need to be very careful when differentiating between defending one's faith and attempting to control other people."
Christianity, as a religion, controls and persecutes other people. When you defend your faith, you are defending the control and persecution of people.
It's not nice, and it's not clever.
- blatantly false. Where did you come up with this?designbot
- That's not false. I draw my own conclusions from observing the world.moth
- I could say the same thing about most religions.moth
- It's not the Christian religion that controls or persecutes, it's people who woefully mis-apply Christianity.gramme
- It's a very, very important disctinction. Christ is not to blame, but rather the people who twist or add to his message.gramme
- Most people woefully mis-apply religion. But go ahead. Throw your weight behind it.moth
- Do you think I mis-apply my faith?gramme
- Nairn0
irreducible complexity.
- tommyo0
I totally understand gramme. It's the control issue that I have a big problem with in modern society. So many people are so busy trying to make people live like they do: politically, sexually, religiously and culturally. It's as if, they don't fit YOUR accepted mold then they should be deemed irrelevant and treated as such. Personally I think all religion is a scam. But that's my belief and I'm fine with the knowledge that a large percentage of people do not agree with my individual truths. Actually, I wish that more people could see the beauty in our differences and not constantly try and mold the world in their ideals. The simple fact that no one really talks about is that none of us has any proof that our beliefs are supreme. So with that in mind, what gives anyone the right to try and move someone else from their un-proven faith to your un-proven faith?
Magnificent arrogance I guess. Might also have something to do with the fear of being wrong - propelling you to want everyone to believe what you do in the pursuit of security in numbers.
- gramme0
Aye tommyo. No one is irrelevant or unworthy of friendship, regardless of what they believe. When the Bible says that Christians are called to be in the world and not of it, that means that I am to represent my faith and not be moved from my foundation in Christ. It means that there is nothing wrong with spending time with "sinners" (I am of course a sinner too), provided we do not endorse people's sin. For example, I have friends who regularly get hammered on weekends. I will not disown them as friends, but neither will I go out with them and get wasted. I'd rather meet them at a pub for just a few beers, go to a movie, dinner, concert etc.
- designbot0
^ "...So many people are so busy trying to make people live like they do: politically, sexually, religiously and culturally...."
The problem with this, is often times simply by sharing your opinion people assume the above. Why does everything boil down to "trying to make people believe". I don't think this is the motif.
The very notion of "personal truths" is self defeating. Truth is not based on ones emotions, truth cannot be created out of thin air, but is objective. Your truth, if indeed it is actually true, would be true for me and everyone else in the universe by it's very definition.
Good ideas have benefits and bad ideas have consequences. All ideas are not created equal....some under scrutiny, fail miserably, others are more convincing. To try and lump everything together and say "not one of us has proof of our beliefs" is to say that all beliefs are somehow equally valid and subjective. I would argue that this is certainly not true.
"Magnificent arrogance I guess. Might also have something to do with the fear of being wrong - propelling you to want everyone to believe what you do in the pursuit of security in numbers."
again here you are assuming somehow you know peoples motifs....the "security in numbers" idea I can tell you from my own perspective, is not even remotely close to why I would share my beliefs with another human being. Why do you assume to know so many things about people who disagree? What if it is out of Love? Or for another reason?
Just thoughts......please know I am just voicing my ideas, and I respect yours.
- gramme0
The trouble, designbot, is that people assume truth is malleable. This is due to a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept of truth. You end up with the egg claiming it invented the chicken, and nothing makes sense anymore.
- TheBlueOne0
100!