Atheists.
- Started
- Last post
- 184 Responses
- teleos0
"If truth is relative, then what are we searching for?"
If we are consistent about truth being relative, we should be able to do horrific atrocities and not call them horrific atrocities. Because it just may be OK with my relative moral code. If Nairn wants to eat a live human baby in front of you... he can, because it may be OK within his subjective realm of right and wrong.
...I think we can all see why this notion doesn't work.
- So then truth belongs to the majority is what you're saying?tommyo
- No, simply that logic demands that there must be an objective source of truth with which we juxtapose our notions/moralityteleos
- But you qualified your position by majority vs. minority. Morals as far as I'm concerned have zero to do with truth.tommyo
- digdre0
atheists believe in themself
- I believe in science and mathematics. :)tommyo
- cold gods, those. brr.gramme
- I believe in mathematics and science too. Which is why i'm a committed theist!teleos
- Well we can all believe in science and math, I didn't mention it as exclusionary. I just don't only believe in me.tommyo
- "cold gods"? interesting. i find the wonder involved in studying the cosmos to being much more fulfilling than chalking it all up to godspifflink
- godspifflink
- Then, my friend, you deeply misunderstand God. He is the most personal deity ever known to man.gramme
- ...And the only one who wishes to enter into relationship with us.gramme
- I poop god, like 2times a daydigdre
- correction, i deeply misunderstand YOUR god. invisible garage dragons.spifflink
- we'll see about that.gramme
- haha okspifflink
- in fact its believing in something real and other than 'something we made up ourselves'.ribit
- Nairn0
I'm sure we've been here before.
- DrBombay0
I say this with out one shred of doubt in my mind. I cannot stand teleos and his smug non-jesus-like personality.
- it's just the internets. Step off of it, and breathe every once in a while.
And where in this thread have i been smug?teleos - been smug?teleos
- every fucking post.spifflink
- I'm not even an atheist and I find him smugmagnificent_ruin
- it's just the internets. Step off of it, and breathe every once in a while.
- gramme0
mm, I guess that may be a source of difference between you and me tommyo, I believe fact and truth to be synonymous. I will qualify that and say that there are some truths which can be physically proven, which I believe you would call facts; and there are some truths which are a matter of metaphysical revelation, which are selectively revealed now and will be ubiquitously revealed before the heavens and earth are remade.
[ here come the loony bin rebuttals... ]
- The heavens and the earth are constantly being remade, so is truth likewise?Nairn
- No no, I mean completely, suddenly rebuilt in a way that does not include imperfection of any sort.gramme
- That is a different world entirely from the one you and I live in.gramme
- Ah, sorry - there our beliefs diverge - I couldn't in any good conscience furnish you with an answer.Nairn
- *shakes hands with grammetommyo
- i would respond, but it is automatically 'loony bin'. dammit, you cut me off!spifflink
- I love being able to debate rationally and still be cool with people. No need to burn bridges.gramme
- designbot0
If Jesus himself came down, shook your hand, did many miracles for you to prove himself divine, than rose back up into the heavens....many of you would still try to rationalize it and discredit such a personal experience. It is human nature...and I include myself in that.
More interesting.....if something like this did happen to you, how would you prove it?
- How would He?Nairn
- Especially if he did miracles I wouldn't believe him.TheBlueOne
- Just thought it was something interesting to think about.designbot
- Jesus essentially said this to the religious elite of his day, who rejected him in spite of his miracles.teleos
- The supply of reasons for unbelief is seemingly infinite. So, you might say, is the case for belief.gramme
- Here we go round the mulberry bush...gramme
- again cutting objections off. its like *fingers in ear...lalala* you guys are hilariousspifflink
- TheBlueOne0
Teleos, despite all your whiz bang accumulation of pseudo-science babble, impressive as it sounds, in is mere rhetorical trickery. At the end science is simply a methodology of testing reality. Ala Popper, you devise experiments to test a hypothesis to prove it falsifiable. You never try to prove something is "true" in science,you try and prove under what conditions your idea works. Nothing ever becomes a "fact" in science because real science allows for something to always be falsified.
Science cannot disprove God. Thje nature and existence of God is not a scientific line of inquiry.
- Renegade0
Fucking Jesus Christ who the fuck cares... Santa Claus is coming to town next week and i am making my list and checking it twice!
- teleos0
blueOne: You need to tell me specifically where I'm using "pseudo-science" babble. All I am doing is pointing at evidence that is there for everyone to observe and claiming that it supports the theistic position. This is nothing new. The founders of modern science were theists, Mendell, Pasteur, Newton, the list goes on and on. They constantly testified about how their work demonstrated the wonder and glory of God.
- ZZZZzzz...not playing your game. Have a nice day.TheBlueOne
- i see.teleos
- wow an pretty lame appeal to authority there.spifflink
- cellular nanotechnology, qualia, fine tuning of constants, DNA programming and replication != authority argumentation.teleos
- I was responding to blueOne's specific post. What, are you his cheerleader?teleos
- haha oh my hell, no your 'mendell, pasteur, newton' part was an appeal to authority.spifflink
- get your head out of your ass and read your own posts.spifflink
- gramme0
It's really tough because the physical and the metaphysical intersect in intrinsic ways which cannot be fully displayed with scientific principles. I can see evidence of God in nature, but cannot use nature to prove his existence beyond a reasonable doubt. The full proof is in revelation and relationship, and the hope that I will one day gaze into his eyes. And as anyone knows, I cannot prove that. Though my life shows evidence of divine intervention, nothing outside of the Holy Spirit can convince the skeptic.
- designbot0
Where I have not seen Jesus, I have had experiences that are simply not-logical....that is, they defy all human understanding. There is no way for me to prove any of these experiences with anyone, but never the less they are as real as the air I breathe. People can look at my life, and see as a result of these experiences, how dramatically it has changed me (I hope :) This is evidence to suggest something did indeed happen, but there technically is no "proof".
I do believe God reveals himself to anyone who genuinely seeks him. He proves himself beyond shadow of doubt to the person, and takes away uncertainty and unbelief. For the people that already know everything, and are arrogant, I don't think there is much room for God to reveal himself, as this would be forcing himself upon such a person.
- btw, that last comment was not directed at anyone here...just a general comment that applies to me as well.designbot
- TheBlueOne0
An Athiest On Miracles.
I don't think much of miracles. Miracles maybe divinely caused. They simply could be someone on the narrow receiving end of raw statistics. I wouldn't doubt that people can,with enough practice, perform feats that approach "miraculous effects". Even if they were divinely inspired or caused I see it more as simple and quite frankly, cheap, spiritual trickery.
I think an everyday commitment without fail to simple, basic goodness is far more convincing than any stories or examples of a miracle. Miracles are cheap parlor tricks as far as I am concerned.
It is also far far harder to achieve and live with simple everyday resolve to living a good life. And nothing serves as a better real example of spiritual depth and awe. At least IMHO.
- marychain0
Atheists acting as stupid as all extremists
FUCK OFF!- Oh for godsakes...TheBlueOne
- sighteleos
- I'm just saying everyone needs to chill out...this is a stupid argument. These are two groups that cannot see eye to eyemarychain
- magnificent_ruin0
this is getting almost as heated as a mac vs pc thread
- teleos0
At the end of the day, we are all coming from a faith-based worldview. Atheists believe that all matter, energy & consciousness etc... came from well... nothing. Theists believe that there was intelligent causation behind it all. Neither position can be empirically proven. Very few things in this world can be empirically "proven".
- again, mangling science. woo! strawman teleos!spifflink
- oh i see... you're a 14 yr. old troll on your mum's computer.teleos
- to be fair, i take you more seriously than i should, which is not very much. gramme and designbot have understandable positions, unlike you.spifflink
- ZzzzzzzTheBlueOne
- positions and faiths, unlike you.spifflink
- nice! that's the dishonest ignorance i was hoping for! good job teleos!spifflink
- and who's the troll again? someone who actually posts about design, or the dude who pops in only on religious threadsspifflink
- marychain0
ok...sorry for the hate. I don't believe in anything beyond the natural world....and I'm tired of atheists as much as super zealous religious folks.
Believe what you want...just try not to shit on my parade
I just don't get easily offended people...seems like a giant waste of your few precious years on earth to walk around pissed off and offended all the time.
- tommyo0
RE: An Athiest On Miracles. by TBO
I agree with you. I think a lot of what we perceive to be truth is half preordained by what we want the outcome to be. Self fulfilling in a way. If I look for someone to discriminate against me because of something I'm concerned about, then I will justify a rejection as being the outcome of that concern. If I'm short (which I'm not, and fyi I'm devilishly handsome in every aspect of my physical being) and I walk up to a girl and she rejects me, to me it's because I'm short. The reason why I bring this up is because I think that 'miracles' work in the same way. Religion by nature revolves around ones faith that their belief is true. But I think human nature is perpendicular to the practice of 'faith' as a whole. We are always searching for a logical truth. When we believe in something so fully, and we're faced with people and situations that challenge that faith, we search to somehow qualify and prove to ourselves that what we believe is real. So imo, reality and proof manifests itself out of a need for preservation.
Mind you, I'm only presenting a perspective and not a persuasion or challenge to religious believers. This is more of just a theoretical resolve at how unexplained events happen. I honestly and truly think that in the end it's an amazing and awe-inspiring thing that we can all be so similar in so many ways and yet so different. I think it really is a beautiful thing; and it would be nice if we could all try harder to recognize it.
- morilla0
Where's all the religious chix at? I brought fruitcake.