Politics
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- zenmasterfoo0
I don't understand what everyone is so afraid of. If our President speaks out, much like most of western Europe has, about intolerance and violence against Iran's own people, how does that put us in a bad light? And who cares? We ARE the great satan. The mullahs will always use that. The mullahs, who have systematically driven that county to ruin are pointedly at odds with over 60% of their population.
It's not about changing the regimes there. It's about this president who stood on a platform of change saying exactly what he should.
- What is going on in their country right can't be blamed on America. WTF don't you get?DrBombay
- All of the protests will be blamed on America's provocation if we intervene.DrBombay
- Also, what would the benefit be?DrBombay
- we lost credibility : you want to talk human rights lets talk, Abu Ghraib, GitmoBattleAxe
- IRNlun60
In reply to zenmasterfoo...
This is strategically a very tricky situation. Today is not the first speech the President has made regarding the elections. The Whitehouse released a statement on Saturday regarding the deaths of protesters and human rights, the day Neda was killed. Several statements where made beforehand in support of free speech, just no outright condemnations of the current Iranian regime.
Unfortunately Iran is not a democracy, so regarding #2 this would be direct support for regime change.
In my opinion this recent criticism is more for Americans to feel more comfortable/uncomfortable with the Presidents foreign policy. How does this help the Iranians you support? I do wish the best for Iranians but this just makes them more of a target.
- perhaps you are right. perhaps I'd just like to see something more.zenmasterfoo
- What would AMerican condemnation accomplish?DrBombay
- I do agree with you though that we would be looked as the great satan regardless...IRNlun6
- If anything I think a strong statement from us will undercut the Iranian people, giving ammo to the establishment.tommyo
- exactly, Tommy.DrBombay
- We agree!, wait, this don't feel right.. suck my dick you halfwit cunt wart.tommyo
- haDrBombay
- TheBlueOne0
The best bet is to bide our time, if the opposition gets the upper hand then I expect Obama to bring the full endorsement of the US to bear. If it collapses sadly into mass violence against the population I expect stronger response as well. Until those tipping points this is in the Iranian people's hands.
And the Iranian people are the one's twittering and blogging, etc. They are talking to us, the citizens of the free world, not out governments, they know we are here and bearing witness to their struggle. This is as much about revolutionizing the role of citizen as it is of overturning an election or government. The repercussions of this event might prove to be massive and bottom-up.
And remember the first Iranian Revolution took one full year to play out.
- BattleAxe0
Personally I think the U.S has lost credibility , how much weight would you put on comments from a Head of States, in who's own state saw a Controversial Election (2000) get reamed up everyone's bum and all we did was hit the malls not the streets.
What credibility to you want to give their movement by Obama wagging his finger at mullahs for us.
when we are less creditable then them by doing nothing
sure a lot of the black eye is from the Bush era but who stood there and did nothing while our credibility around the world was getting town to shreds....... we did
- Seattle in 99 was a bit of a dust up if I remember...TheBlueOne
- all in reference to post 2k ElectionBattleAxe
- TheBlueOne0
I hear you Battleaxe, but I think it's not a fair comparison. Here at the ass end of the Bush years it would seem a no-brainer to take to the streets to fight the heap load of crap he was abotu to heap upon the country, but in Nov 2000 no one knew. We had just gone through the political muck with the whole trumped up Clinton-Lewinsky thing, the US had about zero perceived turbulence going on, Fukuyama was declaring the "end of history", communism was dead, capitalism had triumphed and the only pressing issues seemed pretty minor. The election was seen as between boring and harmless (Gore) and boring and harmless but folksy (Bush). There was no issues of state surveillance, habeus corpus or financial disaster at the time, so to compare Americans not going into the streets en masse at that time over what was perceived as a choice between two samey-samey candidates after a period yucky political infighting that everyone wanted to leave behind to what is happening in Iran, which is a huge over-educated generational rift subsumed in a theocratic/authoritarian regime amid a crappy economy with a veneer of democracy, well..it's apples to oranges man.
- Do you think if Obama lost to McCain under similar "election suspicions" there wouldn't have been huge protests in the streets?TheBlueOne
- streets?TheBlueOne
- oh people knew the election was stolen that is where the credibility went out the door ,BattleAxe
- and yes to McCain over Obama , but that would be the fool me twice angleBattleAxe
- I don't disagree with you, I just think the context explains itTheBlueOne
- ukit0
The talking points that are getting thrown around on this don't have much bearing on the actual situation IMO. I'm not really buying the argument that the Iranian government will be all like, hey look Obama said this, therefore the protesters are with Obama, and we'll crush them. They are already crushing the protesters in case you didn't notice.
What this is really about is not trying to completely sever ties with Iran no matter which way things shake out. It's possible the protesters succeed in forcing a change of government, but it's equally possible that the Khamenei/ Ahmadijenad regime limps on. Either way, the U.S. does not want Iran to be isolated, because if that happens they will go the North Korea route and build nukes and not feel any need to respond to pressure.
The realist crowd that is now in power has decided to basically cede the nuclear power right to Iran. The deal that is on the table is to allow Iran to have the technology, but to outsource it to Kazakhstan (yes, Kazakhstan, where Borat is from). Kazakhstan has close ties to the U.S. and it has some of the most uranium resources in the world, so the idea is that it becomes kind of a neutral caretaker of nuclear power.
- ukit0
And yea, that might seem cold-hearted, but that's the realist approach to foreign policy. It's funny how people criticized Bush when he would talk about good vs. evil etc., well this is the alternate approach. If the protests fail but the U.S. is ultimately able to strike a deal with Ahmadinejad and Khamenei (and keep in mind Khamenei has lung cancer and will probably die soon anyway), do we not strike that deal because he's a motherfucker? Or do we try to ignore the bad things they've done and make a deal anyway, knowing that it will ultimately move Iran in the right direction over the long term?
- TheBlueOne0
Look it's ego vs. strength. The american conservatives love to pound chests and talk about strength but never really do anything palpable in it's direction. Their the 25 year old cheetos eating sofa sitting UFC watching guy who can tell you all about every choke hold in technical detail and talk up what "psyches up the athletes" and what "needs to go on in there heads", but you put 'em on an actual mat and when they try to do the shit they think they "know" it doesn't work against someone who actual, you know trains the actual sport. Then they'll walk away and gauranteed within a week they'll be back on their couch and saying shit like "well the guy I was rolling on the matt with didn't do it like they really do it in the UFC, so it doesn't, you know, count..." In other words the conservatives will do everything to build up and maintain ego at the expense of actually doing anything relating to actual real-world strength.
Sure, it sounds fuckign great to say "Hey Iranian People, the US government officially backs your efforts there! Official Uncle Sam Fistbump!" but then what? I mean other than suddenly becoming a bit of words that can be used in a re-election campaign ("Senator John McCain stood by the Iranian Freedom Fighters when no one else did...") what does that actually, you know, do? We supported the Kurds under Saddam, and that turned out wonderfully. And we supported the Taliban when they were fighting the Soviets and then went "See ya!" when it ran out it's political usefulness. And that turned out fucking great, eh?
Obama is mostly playing this right, and that's killing the fucking Republicans, so they're out and about trying to make their dicks look bigger and throwing their feces around.
- ukit0
So, Sanford is still MIA...
http://www.politico.com/news/sto…
This story is so fucking weird. The guy is getting slaughtered in the press and he doesn't issue a statement, nothing?
And then there's this
"Joel Sawyer, communications director for the governor's office, then said the governor had been on the Appalachian Trail....On Tuesday, sources told News 4's Nigel Robertson that a state vehicle is missing and was tracked down, not to the Appalachian Trail, but to the Hartsfield-Jackson Airport in Atlanta.
Sources told Robertson that a federal agent spotted Sanford in the airport boarding a plane. Robertson was told that the governor was not accompanied by security detail."
- robotron3k0
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccccccccccccccck...
looks like WWIV is about to begin US vs. Pakistan...
"Suspected U.S. Strike Kills at Least 60 in Pakistan
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — An airstrike believed to have been carried out by a United States drone killed at least 60 people at a funeral in South Waziristan on Tuesday, residents of the area and local news reports said."
- sad.lazerbass
- oh man...fucking drones...TheBlueOne
- oh fuckBattleAxe
- RIPBattleAxe
- ha at a funeral... wheres the witty one liners
********
- have any of you actually read the article? it's not what you think.kona
- at the end it even says "this may have been a pakistani air strike, but every just says it was the U.S."kona
- LOL.kona
- ********0
- i wonder what would happen if the missile was hit by a mysterious laser in the sky & blew up on the launch pad?robotron3k
- or a drone, they seem to be deadly accurate.robotron3k
- ukit0
Hmmm...even weirder. But I can see how it's easy to confuse "Appalachian Trail" with "Buenos Aires."
http://www.politico.com/news/sto…
Ultimately, this story probably isn't about anything more than bad planning and the incompetence of some state government people. Still, it's amazing how the guy succeeds in shooting his 2012 chances in the foot in on fell swoop. Mitt Romney must be smiling somewhere.
- strange the Clintons were also in Argentina and the Bush family has property close by. strange...robotron3k
- ********0
With such a financial "crisis" on our hands (the worst "since the great depression...", which is categorically false by the way), what I 'd like to know is, how did Goldman Sachs just have an all-time record profit report, and, is back to paying its executives huge bonuses???
- I like the way you throw out big words like "categorically false" with absolute zero proofTheBlueOne
- Name one other financial crisis worst than this.IRNlun6
- Let us see your categories where it is false please.DrBombay
- ukit0
Well it's simple...their competitors all went under. LOL
- kona0
hey rbotron3k. is there any reason why you conveniently added some creative content, or lack thereof, to your post.
what you posted:
Suspected U.S. Strike Kills at Least 60 in Pakistan
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — An airstrike believed to have been carried out by a United States drone killed at least 60 people at a funeral in South Waziristan on Tuesday, residents of the area and local news reports said."the real quote:
Suspected U.S. Strike Kills at Least 60 in Pakistan
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — An airstrike believed to have been carried out by a United States drone killed at least 60 people at a funeral for a Taliban fighter in South Waziristan on Tuesday, residents of the area and local news reports said.see the difference?
lofl man. lots of fucking laughs. way to play the crowd.
- since I'm not a writer I would never dare write. looks more like the article was rewritten!!!? wtf?robotron3k
- PonyBoy0
haha... nice catch, kona... keep it honest. ;)
- no really seriously the ARTICLE was rewritten since the post.robotron3k
- Robo is part of a vast conspiracy!!!!!DrBombay
- I am a government shill.robotron3k
- DrBombay0
They may have updated the story, fellas. News agencies do it all of the time.
- Don't think I'd really call them 'News agencies.' That's like calling the guy who took your order at McDonalds a waiter.tommyo
- You're giving them WAY too much credit. They're the 4th branch of government now, equally as crooked as the other 3.tommyo
- 3. (fuck, I hate these comment windows, is there not a way to just make then scroll a bit?!?!?)tommyo
- Yeah the NYTimes isn't a trusted news agency... You're right.DrBombay
- Well maybe since they feed you what you want to hear 9 times out of 10 then you can go ahead and call them credible.tommyo
- What is a trusted news source in your estimation? Name a few.DrBombay
- Just look at the changes Kona pointed out.. you don't think that's manipulation??? Really?? No?tommyo
- CSPAN is about it as far as I'm concerned man. All the rest are sensationalist garbage pushers. WSJ used to be good before RM.tommyo
- Do you watch C-Span right after or before UFC?DrBombay
- Oh yeah, cause I'm such a bubble head jock... Anyone who disagrees with your illiterate ass MUST be a Budweiser drinker.tommyo
- It was an honest question...DrBombay
- Don't act like you don't watch UFC dude.DrBombay
- Why do you always divert things to childish bullshit? You were REALLY asking me if I watch c-span after the UFC? gfytommyo
- Don't cry baby boy.DrBombay
- Oh I'm not crying. I'm not the one who lacks the ability to fucking read.tommyo
- bulletfactory0
South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford admitted Wednesday that he has been engaged in an extramarital affair with an Argentinian woman.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS…
Who didn't see that one coming?
- Seems obvious in retrospectukit
- Oops! hahaha This shit never ceases to amaze me.tommyo
- Notice Bill Clinton was there at the same time with a stripper!!!robotron3k
- elDoctor0
- um, out of context, looks like a money shot shirt. Sort of like "Free Jizz" or something.harlequino
- I think the US Govenment is laughing about it and secretly scared we could do the same in the good old USA.robotron3k
- free jizz!robotron3k
- robotron3k0
^^ you see the Pakistani Government cools down once you insert the words "Taliban fighter" in any NY Times stories that mentions drone bombings in Pakistan or Iraq or Afghanistan.
It goes down smooth and helps the public better digest the War.
- Aye, that's the rub. It's all psyops of some kind by someone, innit.TheBlueOne
- yaaa, the War gives me gas.robotron3k
- 'the War'lazerbass