Politics
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- BattleAxe0
this is about the 10th Amendment , I could care less about the Gun Laws , the Law passed happened to be a Gun Law ,
the real issue here is the Sovereignty of States , if a State Governor does not want to take Federal Bail out money suddenly he is the bad guy ? Do you know what kind of strings get attached to Federal money ?
the link I put had a good insight to Nationalist vs Compact Theorists ,
mock a State like Montana for it's low population , so then if there are so few people there what do they need from the FED?I was overheading on the radio about Montana also taking up the Issue of Federal Income Tax ,
a tax that I have always been against ,
the idea of a "Crisis" can only be fixed from the top down never appealed to me ,
- PonyBoy0
haha@Daboma :D
- lowimpakt0
there is lots of complicated issues with guns but some of the facts are that it makes a lot of money for some companies and it is a powerful lobby.
biggest purchaser and biggest exporter. There's a lot of money at stake...
- TheBlueOne0
BattleAxe, while I think the questions of where federal power ends are always worth pursuing, the fact of the matter is that alot of what that site uses as a basis for as justification for it's argument was decided 140 years ago, and the country we have had since then is the result of that violent conclusion of that argument. One of the early paragraphs:
"Most of us have been taught the idea that nullification, like secession, is unconstitutional; and further, that it is a discredited political doctrine. The federal government is absolutely supreme, thus the states are subordinate entities that must obey federal edicts — this is the reigning dogma in American politics, and one of the pernicious ideas that the elites are laboring to teach to school children. If you ask for proof, the supporters of this dogma (generally federal officials and those who benefit from the favor of same - surprise, surprise) will usually throw a quote from Abe Lincoln at you and tell you that ideas like nullification and secession died at Appomattox, Virginia in 1865. Why? Well, because that’s the place where Lincoln and those who supported his authoritarian ideals finally wore down those who disagreed, and forced their surrender on the battlefield. Thus, nullification and secession are ‘discredited’ political doctrines largely for the same reason that your claim to your wallet can be ‘discredited’ by a mugger in an alley."
Oh, I see. the attempted secession from the Union by the Confederacy, the consequent defeat and surrender of the South and the total defeat of the State's Rights movement based around those issues is now a "mugging in an alley" by that authoritarian thug "Abe Lincoln".
There have been 140 years of sour grapes from the South about this, and the bitter stump of this "debate" about the 10th Amendment in this manner is really just trying to refight the Civil War.
So, unless you really want to go back to 1861 and are seriously advocating for the ability of individual States to initiate secession from the Union, it's a silly argument.
Other than the Civil War, the main place this has been fought is in the courts, in respect to the rights the Commerce Clause gives Congress in regulating the States, and their have been a succession of cases form about 1850 onward that support this.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/…
I'm just saying that the idea of returning to some "pristine" idea of the American Republic where the States where sovereign is a form of American Utopianism that doesn't really reflect how reality has played out in this country.
But, hey man, Fight the Power.
- BattleAxe0
I think we will see more and more Laws that pass that challenge Federal Mandates and Resolutions.
so I disagree with your last sentence there but I would not say I see it quite so "pristine" ,
there is no pressing issue facing our nation that would divide us so bad as "slavery" ,
but take the Patriot Act for example a policy of W , and the border wall, our county is still in the courts fighting it's legitimacy even as the wall was completed over 5 months ago. Our city council voted against it , but it got put up anyways , what will be next? I use to be able to go to Juarez with out a problem , now I need a passport or a REALID to comeback starting June 1st? WHY?
I think for the pass140 years the Fed has been riding the high waves of we know what is best for all .
But the 10th Amendment leaves a lot of room for States to act on the best interest of their citizens , few states are in Montana's position to challenge Federal mandates and resolutions because of the threat of pulling funding. which is just sad, that it comes down to be in line or you get none of this even if you produced part of it ($) , Politicians are too chicken shit to challenge the Feds because most want to position themselves and appease , and no one wants to be the Politician the lost of Federal Money for a school or for this and that
- Good points man.tommyo
- I'm not against States asserting their rights at all, I'm just wary around people looking to refight old, lost battlesTheBlueOne
- 10th Amendment a lost battle?BattleAxe
- http://en.wikipedia.…TheBlueOne
- DrBombay0
Wow. Texas, setting the bar higher every day...
- You're just as big a buffoon as she is.tommyo
- ummm, I don't get it.DrBombay
- Wow, So 'Texas' is one woman with an insane agenda... ?tommyo
- get off my balls tommy, you wind up defending dumb shit like this.DrBombay
- See, this is where the reading comprehension I mentioned earlier would come in handy.tommyo
- It happened in Texas, I pointed that out. What are you trying to infer?DrBombay
- When I said that both of you are buffoons it means: I do not support her. I do not support you.tommyo
- No, you said 'Texas, setting the bar higher...' Fuck you're doomed man. your skull is like the husk on a young coconut.tommyo
- you're just confused in your rage for me.DrBombay
- you're conservative, you wish it was 1950, we get it.DrBombay
- No, I'm not. I simply loathe your tendencies for sensationalism and lack of comprehension. Makes you moronically stubborn.tommyo
- You're like a mule, who knows how to type.tommyo
- I like you a lot too! Let's be best friends, we can go to the park eat ice cream and talk about each others problems.DrBombay
- Trying to get you to understand a point without having you move off on a tangent makes me think of trying to put a cattommyo
- in the bath or put the dog outside when you leave the house.tommyo
- What point are you trying to convey, Tom?DrBombay
- It could be your communication skills that are lacking, look inward.DrBombay
- Legs all splayed out. Nails dug in. It's pure insanity to try explain something to you without having the whole thingtommyo
- spin dreadfully off course with stereotypical rhetoric and name calling. I don't even know what compels me to try. I just don't.tommyo
- What are you trying to explain? Just say it and we can move on.DrBombay
- Trust me it's not my communication skills that are lacking here. I've examined that possibility. I'm firmly of the mindtommyo
- that you just don't comprehend. You skip right past the issue and grasp at vapid nonsensical partisan fecal matter and thentommyo
- use it to paint unicorns on all the pretty walls. It's mind numbing.tommyo
- No. I'm not going to explain my point. Not any longer. Done. Read the previous notes. It doesn't work and that's okay.tommyo
- We always argue, you defend rednecky shit and I think it's stupid.DrBombay
- Will never end.DrBombay
- Man honestly, your brain is damaged. I defend rednecky shit? Reading comprehension fails you completely.tommyo
- then explain it to me instead of insulting me. we argued about montana gun rights and the crazy bible lady.DrBombay
- ukit0
If the Republicans nominate Palin in 2012 it would be a perfect time for a third party, ie self financed candidate like Perot to run.
Basically a younger, less crazy version of Ron Paul, fiscally conservative, socially liberal could easily trump someone like Palin. Not sure if they could beat Obama, but they could come close. If a third party came in 2nd in 2012 it would be a watershed event.
- designbot0
In regards to your link Dr.B...
"but scientific reality is not a matter of opinion and cares not for the majority vote"
"Listening to her gives me the heebie-jeebies. About the astronomy standards, she says "...there are different estimates [of the age of the Universe]... they will be taught about 12 - 14 billion years ago, but this leaves it open a little bit to discuss how many billions."
There is NO FACT about the age of the universe, there are different theories and dating techniques but nothing is concrete. Whoever wrote this article sounds like a smug idiot.
- BonSeff0
^ same can be said for the bible.
- designbot0
^ What are you on about? Care to expound on that claim?
- Guys can we not get into the Bible/Science argument in here? We all know where it ends up...TheBlueOne
- ..with teleos quotes all over the place...TheBlueOne
- 'Political discussions shalt not spiral into Religious cock envy.' TBO 10:12tommyo
- Hahaha!!TheBlueOne
- ********0
Please don't tell me you are one of those whackadoos that believe the world is only 4 thousand years old.
- yeah, sorry forgot. Strike my comment from the record.********
- you fuckin' whackadoo.********
- Do you think there is concrete evidence for the universe being billions of years old?designbot
- holy crap, holy crap. bye bye.....********
- She only said the descrepencie was between 12-14 billion years right?DrBombay
- morilla, if you ever want to have a serious conversation, hit me up.designbot
- just remember I never hurled any insults at you, but you seem to be offended by my beliefs for some reason.designbot
- noooo, I am not offended.********
- so are u a Young Earth creationist? or the other sub sects?********
- and I am a smartass by the way, I respect all peoples beliefs.********
- it's all good, I always took you for a good guy. I don't treat it as a fundamental issue, but I think there is strong evidence to suggest the earth is far younger than has been taught for years.designbot
- support the earth is far younger than has been taught for years and years.designbot
- I don't know what to believe, just along for the ride. ;)********
- but it's all cool to me.********
- Anyway, I'm not on here trying to "Christianize" anyone, I just feel passionate on some of these topics so I chime-in :)designbot
- yeah, sorry forgot. Strike my comment from the record.
- BonSeff0
idiot
- TheBlueOne0
Nobody could have predicted that the election of an African-American president would cause Southern states to start declaring their independence.
- If that is the summary of that article then I'd implore you to get some fucking sanity.tommyo
- You really think that a temporary (4 or 8 years) black president would make states want to succeed? So dumb.tommyo
- No, has nothing directly to do with the article. It was mainly snark.TheBlueOne
- That's how it is Tommy...********
- you have never lived in the South have you?********
- I would think they would have always wanted to "succeed"DrBombay
- No thank god.tommyo
- Sorry jackass, 'secede.'tommyo
- ukit0
- BonSeff0
our universe was created in seven days is a pretty radical claim.
do you also think women were created from ribs?- Well, that WOULD explain ..nevermind...TheBlueOne
- BonSeff do you not believe in anything Miraculous? surely there are things are that are unexplainable or unverifiable.designbot
- wow and wow. great scientific point of reference you are coming from DBDrBombay
- The Universe itself is one massive inexplicable thing. Science can only theorize how it came to be.designbot
- Okay then Dr.B, please explain to me, without the miraculous, how the Universe came to be?designbot
- god made it! silly!DrBombay
- He also made 1.7 million different types of insects.DrBombay
- in 7 days.DrBombay
- See you can't. I challenge you too actually look at the evidence. It's not so black and white. I am curious to know what you actually believe? Do you even know what you believe?designbot
- what you actually believe? Do you even know what you believe?designbot
- I believe science will chip away at this for ever.DrBombay
- Science will never be able to explain the miraculous or have the mind of God. I seriously challenge you to have an open mind, you have nothing to lose.designbot
- mind, you have nothing to lose.designbot
- losing my dad to a terminal illness pretty much squashed my beliefs. i was raised christian.. but think its wackBonSeff
- DrBombay0
Tommy, it really is funny that when I agree 90% of the time with what TBO says you attack me like a pitbull, but never say shit to him. Granted, he is ten times more eloquent that I will ever be, but the substance is most often the same. You're a dickhead.
- Yeah but you're 90% more talented with the use of the word "fuck". I am usually in awe.TheBlueOne
- hahaaDrBombay
- i like you both. cheers!zenmasterfoo
- I like everybody.TheBlueOne
- tommyo0
Rick, you agree with TBO 100% of the time because you can't formulate an opinion of your own. I might be a dickhead but you're a buffoon.
- I was making claims around here before I even new Brian, so you're still a dickhead.DrBombay
- I used to argue with all of you dopes about Iraq, now you all agree with what I was saying the whole time.DrBombay
- You were just leaching then too.tommyo
- but won't admit it. that's cool I can see it would be embarassing.DrBombay
- those terrorists wanna gut ya, they hate your freedom. Fucking numbskulls. That shit was going on all over this placeDrBombay
- maybe he flocks to TBO because he's able to eloquently say what ideology Dr. B believes in...EightyDeuce
- you know the same way your dick gets hard for Ayn Rand's philosophical/politi... beliefsEightyDeuce
- zenmasterfoo0
Military fly over in NYC cost tax payers around $328,835.
Huh. Pretty expensive photos...
- That was a major cockup for sure...TheBlueOne
- the WH is set to release the photos from the flight. The bigger questions arose on who was on the plane.zenmasterfoo
- You know, I was listening to a military guy I respect very much and he said "I wonder what they were really doing to use that photo-op story as cover.."TheBlueOne
- photo-up as a cover story?" That gave me pause bc of the source..TheBlueOne
- My dad said the same. He's ex-Air Force intel.harlequino
- i'm appalled people can't tell the difference between air force one and a regular jet.kona
- KwesiJ0
I wonder how much it costs taxpayers every time the military flys over a city in another country?
- like your country, which one would that be?DrBombay
- PakistanKwesiJ
- counter in the ordinance we fire at your hills...alot.zenmasterfoo