Politics
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- ukit0
Seems like all that it takes to spark a revolution is to elect a Democrat president.
- designbot0
This is what happens when the Federal Government tries to take away our constitutional rights, simple as that.
Good for Montana.
- DrBombay0
What about when Bush/Cheney jumped their General Lee over the bill of rights, designbot? Montana didn't say shit.
- point is it has all to do with the dems being in power and republicans are paranoid.DrBombay
- bullshit. You think Montana would have been okay with ANYONE threatening to take away gun rights?tommyo
- I was speaking to db about constitutional rights. not just guns.DrBombay
- Annnd this one effects them directly, so they spoke up, what's your fucking point?tommyo
- Ohhhh because Montana didn't get upset then they should just shut their mouths now and apply the lube. I see. Good logic.tommyo
- no one is taking their guns away, you admitted it below.DrBombay
- tommyo0
I like that you just drive on through issues guided by nothing but your own personal opinions. People who support the second amendment are 'delusional' to you, while your love of government and everything 'green' is seen as delusional by others. This falls silent on you somehow, maybe some form of logical convenience? Is it too difficult to accept that people in Montana might be more concerned about the legality of their firearms than you are in the city?
I agree that the fed taking guns away won't be happening any time in the near future. But like every jeopardized personal freedom it's a slippery slope and if it's something that's important then you need to push hard to keep that ball from rolling in the beginning. I think it's important to realize that from state to state the issues vary greatly, which is why states need to be able to have the power to establish their individuality.
- TheBlueOne0
Arguable the concept of "habeas corpus" is the bedrock of all rights in a democratic system, essentially was the first step when people demanded that their government could not arbitrarily deny them the essence of personhood under the law.
When Bush's legal team ran over this I don't remember a single Republican bitching about it. No one threatened to secede from the union. Not one republican led legislature said fucking "boo" about the Constitution.
Now, some made up bullshit has them all up in a hissy fit.
This defines modern Republicans: Hissyfits in Fantasyland.
Until they make their long trek back from disney world and face reality they will be out in the wilderness, alone, howling at the moon.
- talking about Republicans, not conservatives in general.TheBlueOne
- DrBombay0
It was a slippery slope when they were tapping phone lines and taking away habeas corpus too, but these dipshits didn't say a damn thing then. These people are being manipulated by their state government.
- designbot0
I don't think it's being overly paranoid considering some of the things Obama has proposed in regards to stricter gun laws. True, nothing has been done YET, but do expect people to sit around until something is?
Here's a few....
Obama is proposing to make it a felony for a gun owner whose firearm was stolen from his residence which causes harm to another person if that weapon was not securely stored in that home.Obama is requiring that all people working at a gun dealer undergo a criminal background check. He's also asking that gun manufacturers be required to develop safety measures that permit only the original owner of the firearm to operate the weapon purchased.
He's proposing restricting gun purchases to one weapon a month and banning the sale of firearms at gun shows except for "antique" weapons. Obama is also proposing increasing the licensing fee to obtain a federal firearms license.
I don't see how any of this will equate to less gun violence. Anyone else care to post more info on Obama and his proposals for gun control?
- ukit0
What I love most about this -
You think the US government is really scared of people with guns? Even assuming it did someday turn evil/ fascist/ dictatorial and militias were trying to stage an insurrection, the government would crush them like flies.
U.S. has bombers, chemical weapons, about 5,000 nuclear weapons that could destroy the world many times over. They have robot drones they they can use to bomb your town via remote control while they are sitting in Washington having tea.
- designbot0
^You are assuming that folks from our own military would be willing to kill thousands of their own people....quite unlikely.
- plus the mass destruction that these weapons would cause could potentially be self-defeating if used within.designbot
- bahah you think the usa military has some sort of restraint or something?KwesiJ
- Well they killed David Koresh and his people pretty deadukit
- All it would take is a couple of CIA operatives and some drones these days you know.TheBlueOne
- Our military/law enforcement had no problem turning guns on American citizens trying to leave New Orleans after Katrina... So to answer your question, a blunt yes.EightyDeuce
- ukit0
Well, yeah exactly, the whole thing is ludricrous anyway. But if it was somehow the militas vs. the government...it's not going to make a shred of difference whether militias are armed with pea shooters or AK-47s.
- Now granted, when the U.S. was founded, it was a fairly equal battle. But not anymore.ukit
- KwesiJ0
gun laws are besides the point, the issues Obama is taking up are like political 'get in free' tolkens
- no real sustainable solutions are found in anything he talks aboutKwesiJ
- How, as president, would YOU make every armchair politician feel appeased when there are literally millions of issues, we as individuals might find most pressing?version3
- millions of issues, we as individuals might find most pressing?version3
- how address the people as a whole when each of them feels their issue is most important?version3
- i wouldn't be prez or a poltitian I create change by being myself in the here and now not puppeteering rhetoricKwesiJ
- so you would be happy with no leader, basically.DrBombay
- ahaha yeah 'leader'KwesiJ
- TheBlueOne0
I'm all for the 2nd Amendment. Really I am. Own as many guns as you want. If I lived somewhere else, I might want to have a few myself. I don't think guns kill people, I think people kill people, although arguable they might make it easier for the more psychotic among us to kill lots of us when they feel the need too for whatever reason.
But I assume that the reason that's in the constitution is because the idea of an armed populace is a nice thing to have if the general idea at the foundation of your political system is to limit government power. One of the defining powers of government is the sole use of legitimate violence.
But, you know, in a world where small arms are no longer the defining and main weapon of state violence (unlike say the 18th century, when a small group of men armed with small arms were a considerable "military force"), where computer databases, modern communication and control systems, heavy armor, artillery, air power, etc. are the central weapons in the government arsenal, there is no way to say that you owning a fully functional assault rifle somehow is some sort of protection or check on the state's monopoly of violence.
So, while I understand and uphold the Constitutional right for the utiltarian usage of small arms - personal protection, hunting, hobbyist, I see no reason why the general population should have access to assault weapons - unless you also allow the general populace to own say an M-1 Abrams tank as well, which is certainly not allowed. Because that's what you'd need at the bare minimum to threaten the government in any real measurable terms.
Just my two cents.
- Exactlyukit
- I typed this while you guys were posting above...so, same point really..TheBlueOne
- I agree with pretty much everything you said, +1/2 :)designbot
- On assault weapons, not sure where I stand. Remember though we are not talking about fully automatic assault weapons...that would be a no brainer.designbot
- weapons...obviously nobody should have those. But semi-automatic, I don't see how these are any worse than say a handgun or regular hunting rifle.designbot
- handgun or regular hunting rifle.designbot
- probably real fun to fire too...TheBlueOne
- ukit0
I'd just add, it would be electorally suicidal for Obama to impose restrictions on guns. His reelection rests on places like Colorado, Virgina and Indiana where people love their guns.
In a lot of ways, I would say the Republicans won the 2nd amendment battle. And that's fine with me, there are much bigger issues out there IMO.
- TheBlueOne0
The same way that the republican punditocracy likes to say that liberals call Obama "the One", they say Obama wants to take your guns away. In both cases, it's just made the fuck up. And that's the problem with the Republicans, they have no fucking clue where their rhetoric ends and reality begins. Here's something I wrote as a comment over at the National Review earlier today, in reponse to this article http://www.americandailyreview.c… :
"A recent Gallup poll showed that Democrats only have a 7% advantage, 35% to 28%. among adults in party affiliation. America is center-right not center-left."
Yeah, but...you just...and then you conclude...what?
The incredible cognitive dissonance within one sentence is amazing. You can keep repeating it over and over again, doesn't make it true.
Being an independent voter with no party affiliation somewhere between progressive and libertarian territories, I honestly do miss old pre-Reagan American conservatism. (heck, my first presidential vote was for Perot - crazy, eh?) The one thing that brand of politics had for it was it's honesty in the face of reality. THAT is what the modern Republican party lacks, and from my observations of it's flopping about in the waters currently (Michael Steele? Palin as a viable national candidate? Joe the Plumber? Really guys? Really?) is what is keeping it from reinvigorating itself and becoming a vital force again in American politics.
When the Republican party finally wises up and comes to term with reality, then your road back to power will begin. So far though, I'm not seeing indications of that on the horizon, just repetition of all the things that led to your defeat in the last two elections.
Well, good luck with all of this. You'll need it. "
- designbot0
I should be able to own a rocket launcher if I want to, it's all in the constitutions.
here you go Dr.B, just be sure no little kids are around ;)
- actually looking at this thing...it would be pretty sweet to use haha. Especially if you had an old car to get rid of.designbot
- *whoooosh...boom!TheBlueOne
- tommyo0
^^ RE: TBO above. I completely agree. The Republicans are all but completely lost in the woods at this point. When they talk about leadership and someone like Palin gets mentioned, meh, really? It's the rhetoric and thin logic that really gets to me with the Republicans right now. Any sensible person can see how thin the reasoning is with them right now. I know a lot of people on this site (raving loony toons liberals :P ) applaud the blood letting that's happening in that party, but to me, this is some scary shit. If they keep going in the direction they're going then we're talking about a one party system. I don't see them pulling out of this any time soon, they've tied themselves way too tightly to this social conservatism agenda, which imo is a very big part of the exodus.
- I think they're going to be lost in the woods for at least two more election cycles, minimum.TheBlueOne
- And that's if they change their direction to something relevant .. if they keep pushing the same bs then who the fuck knows.tommyo
- TheBlueOne0
The other reason for the 2nd Amendment was to have guns available for state/federal militias, because the last thing the founders wanted was a general standing army. Better to have an armed populace who bring their own kit when called up for the common defense.
But we've pretty much had a standing army now for just shy of a hundred years, soooo...
- KwesiJ0
so what Daboma gonna do about all the american made weapons in africa and the mideast?
- nomnomnom?TheBlueOne
- yeah basicallyKwesiJ
- Who did you vote for?DrBombay
- What about all of the russian made weapons?DrBombay
- yeah just pass the blame and stuff to them russians...fapafapaf...KwesiJ
- all you ever see are russian kalashnikov's and AK's on tv.DrBombay
- If you werent anonymous I might take you more seriously.DrBombay
- huh..."all you ever see is russian"...yeah am I supposed to take you seriously?KwesiJ
- USDA is like ten times worse, the weapons industry that people like Obama profit from is HUGE. Its international and capatalistic...do the mathKwesiJ
- ....capatalistic. Do the math.KwesiJ
- you're right, I will stop personally selling weapons to africa and the mideast.DrBombay
- its not personal stupid its AMERICAN. Your Corporate war mongering government. The Russians too.KwesiJ
- Where are you located?DrBombay
- american made weapons? ak-47s and RPGs rule over there. thems russian dude.kona
- most of them are russian counterfeits from what I have read also.DrBombay
- my point was about the volunmes of AMERICAN weapons that do in fact exist in their multitudes...you know the ones obama ain't gonna do shit aboutKwesiJ
- ones Obama ain't gonna do shit about. Oh yeah and isreal weapons that were funded by americans.KwesiJ
- you can keep changing the point to Russian weapons and tahts cool because its true to but don't ignore USA creation of shit loads of weapons in this worldKwesiJ
- ...of shit loads of weapons in this world.KwesiJ
- why dont you want to answer where you are from?DrBombay
- because i thought we were talking about american made weapons that Obama is going to ignoreKwesiJ
- thats what you were talking about actually. look at your original post.DrBombay
- yeah american made weapons...not sure what my nationality has to do with itKwesiJ
- not sure why you dont want to say.DrBombay
- give me a reason why it has any relavance to the topic at hand and i'll to you again for the fifth timeKwesiJ
- this is your topic, have fun with it.DrBombay
- now i get it. you just watched "lord of war" with nic cage and think american weapons are in piles like in the movie.kona