Politics
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- mg330
I'd love to have a big Hannity Is The Anti-Christ sign.
- PonyBoy0
I love how lots of news shows... (just saw an Anderson Cooper clip... lolz - http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mat…)... are using the term 'TEA-BAGGING'...
'It's hard to talk when you're Teabagging'...
hahaha...
I've heard it about 4 times flipping through the channels this morning.
- DrBombay0
How many people who make 250 g's a year or more do you think will actually be at these things?
Blows my mind how the republican elite get these lizard brains to do the legwork for them.
- tommyo0
^^ I think you got it all wrong here Rick. Just because FOX news is politicizing the shit out of this doesn't make this some dumb redneck republican concept. Oh, I'm sure we'll get to see all the pictures of those freaks who do show up with their Obama hate signs. But the idea behind this I fully support. When you've got citizens calling in to their congress people 10 to 1 against the TARP bill and they pass it anyways, then we've got a fucking problem. No? Do you agree? I'm sorry but government is supposed to represent our interests, your representative is supposed to represent the interests of the people he represents, hence the name. Not vote for the corp interests who got him elected or shirk what his constituency wants to vote with his party.
if you want to turn this concept into a fascist serfdom sort of thing then by all means, delude yourself. If you tend to want to really understand this thing, once the FOX news bs is stripped away, then you might reconcile the appeal of this concept against the undeniable grassroots support for one president candidate Ron Paul in the last election, and realize that people are fucking fed up with Gov power. Whether you agree with Paul or not, the idea of giving the people back their power is an intoxicating one and with the current actions of government, it grows even more in it's appeal. This growing frustration isn't a Republican Democrat thing, it's an ecompassing Gov thing. I know you've professed your love of being heavily taxed in the past but you're in the minority. Most of us here are pretty sick and tired of watching gov take 30% of our earnings and do with it what they please...senseless wars, overseas military bases, stimulus checks, open ended welfare, bailing out ignorant people who bought houses they couldn't afford because gov basically mandated they be loaned the money in the first place, $600 toilet seats, giving banks money without guidelines...all while: schools fail, roads fail, hospitals fail, SEC fails, SS going to fail, immigration fails, etc etc etc
You're forced to give 30% of your income every year to an organization that gives you back a shitty product. But you think that the only people who are upset about it must be making 250 g's a year and driving the lizard brains out to the event to protest for them...? Denial or delusion?
- this is about raising taxes, isn't that what tea parties are for?DrBombay
- Or did I sleep through U.S. History class?DrBombay
- Taxation without representation. Does 10 to 1 against the TARP but it still passes signal 'representation' to you??tommyo
- I don't follow what you just typed there... Bush passed TARP originally right?DrBombay
- Bush passed TARP? Maybe you should crack open your HS Gov book again and see who passes bills.tommyo
- Soooo yeah maybe you did sleep through History class after all! :)tommyo
- You knew what I meant, assface. He urged congress to pass it. SOCIALIST!DrBombay
- Hahatommyo
- mg330
I just walked down to the tea party in Chicago; it's a few blocks from my office. What a joke. What a total joke. The problem with these kinds of things, and with these disgruntled Republicans in general is that they can't get behind a single identifying issue TOGETHER. The signs I saw were either as random as it could get, or were just flat-out idiotic - such as the one that said "No Taxation Without Representation."
Really? Seriously?
I hate to generalize and assume about people, but all of the people I saw with the most clever and witty signs were obviously not making above $250K a year, or were elderly people.
One of the funniest things I overheard was a woman with a sign telling people "I was here protesting at the anti-war protests." Really - so you were against the president who got us into this mess, but you're against the president who is trying to get us out of this mess?
Irony is just so sweet sometimes. Never before have these people raised a finger to protest taxes; now that there's a president they don't want, who is lowering their taxes, out they come in droves to loosely protest paying taxes.
A big LOL to that.
- Quite honestly I haven't seen two many coherent leftists rallies either...TheBlueOne
- ..but yeah, this has it's own special scent of failTheBlueOne
- you shoulda seen the G20 signs. "we want it all for free"monNom
- mg330
TBO,
I could respect these efforts if they had a central point. But they don't. If the central issue is Wall Street Bailouts, then everyone should convene around that issue. If it's about the deficit potentially being higher than ever, convene around that. But it's all so loosely scattered across people's individual gripes that it doesn't form a consistent message.
EX: I saw a sign that said Commander In Thief? Really - how's that? What is Obama taking from the middle class to give to anyone else? Again, hate to generalize, but the woman with this sign was clearly no rich pampered retiree. it's that lack of self education and understanding of the issues that's just so hard to stomach when people protest things like this. I'll admit, I truly don't know all the angles of all the issues, but I do what I can to read and absorb enough to try and understand both sides. All I could understand today was that people are mad about something, they just don't really know what issue to be mad about.
- TheBlueOne0
Oh I agree, mg33, just pointing out that, for example, even if you went to an anti-iraq war rally in recent years all of a sudden there would be a group next to you with signs about saving Darfur, and then there'd be three guys with signs against genetically engineered crops...and all of them with cleverly designed puppets of some sort...I don't see THAT particular point as left or right, just a consequence of a mass-type rallies. You tend to attract people with overlapping interests...
- I know completely. I went to some of the no-war rallies in Chicago. Always a Free Tibet sign in the crowd!mg33
- ukit0
I'm actually feeling a little *hopeful* now that Obama is talking up the economy instead of gloom and doom.
Considering - he has access to the best data
And if things go bad again, it's his ass on the line.Any chance Krugman will look like a fool in about a year?
- DrBombay0
The rich buy the stupid and manufacture a movement...
Are you a billionaire worried about having to pay taxes all the while demanding government contracts and other privileges paid for people who do pay taxes? Well then you have come to the right - literally - place. The fabricated "tea party" movement has a seat at the donation table waiting for you. From ThinkProgress:
ThinkProgress reported last week that corporate lobbyists are helping to orchestrate the anti-Obama tea party protests. These lobbying-run front groups, along with promotion help from Fox News, are organizing the tea parties by calling right-wing activists and asking them to organize. They are also coordinating conference calls among activists, writing press releases, providing sign ideas, building websites supporting the protests, and distributing talking points so that the protesters can stay on message.Today, FreedomWork’s Adam Brandon responded to the criticism that its efforts to organize these anti-Obama protests are ‘astroturf,’ saying that the organization’s work in coordinating and planning the events would be akin to “MoveOn’s model.” However, MoveOn is not run by corporate lobbyists and is funded by actual grassroots activists. On the other hand, the leader of FreedomWorks, Dick Armey, who is ranked as one of DC’s top “hired guns,” is a corporate lobbyist with a history of directing FreedomWorks to support the goals of his lobbying clients. For example:
– Armey’s FreedomWorks is actively organizing against health care reform. Indeed, Armey’s lobbying firm represents pharmaceutical companies, such as Bristol-Myers Squibb, that oppose comparative effectiveness research in the health reform plan because such a program may cut into revenue for branded drugs.
– Armey’s lobbying firm represents the trade group for the life insurance industry. Indeed, FreedomWorks mobilizes its members for deregulated life insurance reform.
– Currently, FreedomWorks is focusing their energy activism on supporting the status quo reliance on fossil fuels. In addition to working for various domestic oil companies with a vested interest in opposing change, Armey’s lobbying firm represents Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Prime Minister of the UAE, on energy related issues such as maintaining the U.S.-UAE relationship where “U.S companies have played major roles in the development of UAE energy resources, which represent about 10 percent of global oil reserves.”
– In 2006, Armey’s lobbying firm represented the Senado de Republica (Mexican Senate) on “enhancing U.S.-Mexico relations,” and specifically on immigration policy. Curiously, during the same period, Armey’s Freedom Works stood out as one of the few right wing organizations to boldly support comprehensive immigration reform.
Last year, the Wall Street Journal exposed FreedomWorks for building “amateur-looking” websites to promote the lobbying interests of Armey.
FreedomWorks represents a top-down, corporate-friendly approach that has been the norm for conservative organizations for years. As Obama prepares to push to close corporate tax loopholes, reform health care, and transition to a clean energy economy, we can expect more corporate lobbyists to create astroturf protests to oppose change.
Look at the number of idiots money can buy. Yes, the people protesting are actually getting tax cuts. So why are they out on the street? Well, because they are either paid to be there or they are too stupid to actually grasp that the only tax increase being suggested are for people NOT OUT THERE - the ones funding this sham. Welcome to the herd of stupidity, sponsored by the very people who want government bail-outs. Moreover, Fox News is acting as the official PR arm of this faux movement.
At times like this I refer to the brilliant Bill Murray and the following quote from the movie Groundhog Day: "morons, your bus is leaving."
Oh, and you do remember that passionate Florida protest, now known as the Brooks Brothers Riot? Half those fake-activists got jobs in the Bush administration, the other half went on to be indicted as part of Jack Abramoff's team of scammers. So this tea party is the new Brooks Brothers Riot, only better coordinated. So anyone near these protests, take pictures. I have a feeling we will see a number of lobbyists and operatives employed in this sham.
- from here http://www.atlargely…DrBombay
- when I think “amateur-looking” websites, I think http://pixyland.org/…mg33
- hahahaha, animated gifs of construction workersDrBombay
- lol! that pixyland creep got married... TO A WOMAN!... still - he's Michael Jackson creepy to no end.PonyBoy
- TheBlueOne0
First, let me caveat this - I totally agree with anyone's Constitutional right to assemble and protest their government, no matter what the issue is. Secondly I even concur with some of the aims of the "Tea Baggers", specifically against the government using taxpayer money to prop up failed speculative risk capital finance institutions, which to me is a pretty non-partisan issue and has more to do with the sheer corruption the financial industry has engendered in our political system than anythign else.
mg33 is correct in that it does seem to me though that the CENTRAL point of this thing is a bit fuzzy for me. Could be my lack of understanding of it, although I have tried, I mean the TARP bailout, the stimulus package, higher taxes (point of note: any of Obama's tax policies don't go into effect until 2010), etc. all seem to me somewhat different issues, although they ARE all tied to government expenditures.
So I guess if you're protesting too much government expenditures overall, well, that's your central point then I suppose. Why this wasn't an issue the right rallied behind with incredible media coverage under the previous administration I don't know. But hey, this IS politics, and that's all part of the game.
Tommy says the principle is "people are fucking fed up with Gov power." True true. Now I'm more lefty than right for the most part, and I was very fed up with "Gov power" taking our country to war unneccsarily, suspending habeus corpus, using MY tax dollars to fund said war and torture programs, to fund electronic eavesdropping, etc. of people...and we protested about it. Same issue, but it's portrayed differently in the media. Heck 250,000 people marched in Washington at one point and it didn't elicit more than an offhand blurb across ALL the news networks. This Tea Bag party is getting 24/7 coverage from Fox and other right-wing media outlets. And despite whatever they say, they're
Typical rightwing douchebaggery - do stuff for their own interests while gettign the rube to do the heavy lifting. Hey, rightwing types - how did having a Republican President and a Republican Congress for eight years get you closer to issues you usually protest? Abortion, smaller government, etc? Didn't get ANY of it, did you? But here they come again promising you the same EXACT shit.
What gets me I guess is not people protesting about being fucking fed up with Gov power. ALL protests are in one way or another about that. I mean who the fuck protests about being happy with government? It's just the how this is sold, that only CERTAIN types of government protests are you know, really "American" and somehow inline with some distinct historical narrative (See it's just like the Tea Party of 1773! Real Americans!). But anti-war protests and other "lefty" issues are never said in the same breath on Fox (or CNN or MSNBC for that matter) couched in such language? They're called "radicals" or just plain "anti-war protesters" or "peaceniks". Not "Americans protesting their government".
If you watch Fox at all, you see talking head after talking head discussing about "how will the MSM cover this?" Hello, get a cluestick FOX - you ARE the mainstream media. You are one of what? Three big media conglomerates that dominate our news dissemination (CNN, Fox, MSNBC)? And you are spending what looks like a few million in devoting airtime and resources hyping this thing. You are not "covering the news" you are "manufacturing the news".
And THAT'S my issue tommy. I'm glad people are protesting, especially even if it relates to an issue I care about, but even you have to admit that some are co-opting this and not making it a real "grass roots thing".
And thirdly, the original Tea Party was in essence about Taxation without Representation. Look, we just had this huge national referendum called AN election last November. The winners of that election in the executive and legislative branch just voted for whatever plans they just did. The people were represented, and yeah, they just got taxed. That's the system. There is nothing in the Constitution that says once elected a legislative representative has to make a tally of everyone in his district on every vote that they have to cast. No, they vote their conscious. Now in a couple of years, we have another election, if enough people don't like what that guy did, you vote him out. That's the system. That's Representation AND taxation. And if you want to invoke the Founders, the one thing they were terribly afraid of was Mob Rule, and if you're citing the Founders in one breath and then saying "Well, all the people clamored to them to NOT support the TARP..." well, all well and good and true, but the Congress critters ignoring that is, to the Founders, a feature and not a bug of the system.
Now is that Representation perhaps corrupted by big money and corporate contributions? Yes. Of course. Is the elctoral system a giant clusterfuck in need of reform? Yes indeed. (ask me about why we don't have more Representatives in the House like we should according to the Constitution...)..
- ukit0
Let's face it, it's all about money in the end. We live in an entertainment driven culture after all.
I doubt Limbaugh and Beck are as stupid and craven as they act. The guys built billion dollars careers for themselves after all. When the other guy gets in power, there is simply no business rationale for sitting quietly by, leading a mature, nuanced discussion of the issues and trying to find common ground. Ultimately their schtick is no different than a rap artist who brags about shooting people to get attention.
So basically these guys have created this dramatic storyline that keeps their viewers tuned in, which may or may not be loosely tethered to reality, money pours in, are they gonna stop? Hell no. Limbaugh says jump, the JazXs and GetRefreshes of the world say how high.
- +10. Glad you didn't lump me in there at the end btw. ;-)tommyo
- HAHA, I can tell you're a smart guy tommyo. And actually I am kidding on JazX and GRukit
- I think JazX got mad and left though :)ukit
- I think he's making pipe bombs for you guys. I think I'll be safe though. One more advantage to being 'middle o' the road.' ;)tommyo
- tommyo0
I totally agree TBO. To clarify, the concept of citizens standing up to the excesses of what's happening, and what has been happening is what I agree with. The execution is very lacking. The fact that FOX is spinning and adopting the shit out of this thing is sad. This very well could be the sort of concept that people from BOTH sides of the aisle could agree with, but sadly, it didn't. We all want more responsible decisions. We all want less taxes.
I see your point about the TARP and how the representatives need to vote with their conscience - however, as someone who was very much against TARP, to see 10 to 1 ratio of people saying 'Please don't', then watching the thing pass in a hurry because Paulson said so...I'm pissed. The fact that they had no plan in place, the fact that they had no clue what it would really cost but that they 'picked a large number.' That's not representation. That's not how wise people make decisions. That's an entity that has near complete control over what they can bring in as far as money and spending it the way they see fit with no regard for the lives of the people paying for their overnight headless chicken decisions. The stimulus bill that no one read makes my god damn blood boil, so I'm not even going to go into it since it basically represents the very same governing arrogance as the TARP bill.
Party politics are only meant to fucking blind us, people dig their heels in for their 'guy' and completely fail to see the truth. This is a concept we should all be embracing.
- TheBlueOne0
Just out of comparison, let's see how Fox covers the next series of protests for A New Way Forward, scheduled for June 8, which is standing for: "The financial corporations that caused this mess must be broken up and sold back to the private market with strong, new regulatory and antitrust rules in place -- new banks, managed by new people. "
http://www.anewwayforward.org/de…
Seriously. Just for a comparison.
They in fact had some national rallies just a few days back. Here, look at their signs:
http://anewwayforward.org/blog/?…
I would say they're pretty much similar in cause to the "Tea Party" peeps, at least in some cases. I didn't see Fox covering this AT ALL.
Why?
- Cause 'a new way forward' isn't as kinky as 'tea baggin'? They should have named it the 'Dirty Sanchez.' Then they get media.tommyo
- I know I know, I missed my calling. I should have been in PR.tommyo
- Ha!TheBlueOne
- i can think of a couple other 'jobs' i think you'd be good at too, tommy
:)PonyBoy - oh yeah? ;-)tommyo
- tommyo0
^^ Speaking about the banking and Wall St. I'm kinda curious why you don't hear much about the SEC? TBO, can you enlighten me as to why the SEC isn't being scrutinized? Wouldn't those pesky credit default swaps be under their jurisdiction? Kinda wondering who was supposed to be watching the banks as an oversight role. Also, since you seem very likely today to write a really nice long juicy article for us; oversight vs regulation. Pick one and explain why it's better than the other. I've always been under the impression that oversight has advantages over regulation since oversight seems more like a case by case evaluation based functionary role rather than a bureaucratic 'no one can do __.'
Thank you, much love.
- I'd have to think about that before I just splay words onto the page...TheBlueOne
- ...and not sure on what you mean by "oversight vs. regulation"..how are you defining each one?TheBlueOne
- tommy do your own legwork biatch!DrBombay
- just wing it, tbo :)PonyBoy
- Yeah TBO, not knowing the issue never fucking stopped you before. :Ptommyo
- Oversight being a more constant watchful eye as opposed to regulation being a more static reactionary function.tommyo
- At least that's how my small brain has perceived it. i.e. http://www.consumeri…tommyo
- I'll tackle it later..it's closing time and I gots to drive home...TheBlueOne
- In the meantime, let this get your ire up:
http://norris.blogs.…TheBlueOne - NOW!!! hehe. Oh and fuck you Rick, you liberals are all about someone else doing the leg work for you! I'm a liberal now!!tommyo
- And a quick goole search has turned up that credit default swaps were neither regulated or had any oversight:
http://jimhamiltonbl…TheBlueOne - http://jimhamiltonbl…
&
http://www.washingto…TheBlueOne - So the SEC has no reason to be scrutinized on this matter although in other things they are FAILTheBlueOne
- Wow man, you know, Goldman really has no reason to change their evil ways. They've got friends in high places.tommyo
- I wish I could have just wiped my Dec mortgage off the books. My bank account would look even more handsome.tommyo
- designbot0
few more...
- redistribution dreams? wtf...DrBombay
- That means "socialism"TheBlueOne
- that means that guy is fucking retarded.DrBombay
- designbot0
There really was a good mix of people. From business men in suits, to hooligans with graphic tee's (like me :)
- DrBombay0
SO were there like dudes with nuts in their mouths or what?
