Moses was High
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- ********0
one more time
- gramme0
Everyone: I'll answer questions later, have to knock out some work (I do get paid for my time...)
dobs, the short version for now: people actually did get into heaven before Christ. They had faith, and the had covenants with God that promised a future savior. It's all there in the Old Testament.
- the game done changed?mrdobolina
- That's the problem with false dilemmas.Mimio
- kona0
- gramme0
The game did not change. There was time before the event of Christ's salvation, and time after. The Jews before Christ looked forward to the promised Messiah. They followed the old covenant laid out in the Old Testament. With Christ came the new covenant, which was not a tearing down of the old, but a fulfillment of it. Scripture should not be looked at so much as Old vs. New Testament: it's one seamless fabric, with foreshadowing and prophecy that is later fulfilled. The apostle John got it right at the beginning of his gospel: "In the beginning was the Word, (i.e. Christ) and the Word was God, and the Word was with God."
- gramme0
In this passage John is talking about the fact that God the Father and God the Son are distinct yet unified parts of the Trinity. The third part being the Holy Spirit. A simplistic comparison would be to say it's like three different manifestations for one entity. The subject of the Trinity is discussed in detail in the Bible, but it's still very mysterious because we humans can't fathom the whole three-in-one thing. And before you say it, split personality disorder is an incorrect analogy, since the three parts of the Godhead have complete communion with one another and are all equally, inseparably God.
- ********0
- mrdobolina0
dude, you are giving sermons on QBN, you realize that right?
- Well someone needs to save our souls, heaven's branding is looking rather shabby.dr_pangloss
- ender790
if the non-religious people on qbn don't want to hear about christianity, why do they post threads to bait the christians who frequent this site into sharing their beliefs? i realize it's ostensibly to make fun of us and our beliefs. is that the only reason?
i realize that this isn't a religion board. i'm on here primarily to learn more about design. does that mean that if someone brings up something regarding christianity that i don't agree with that i will keep my mouth shut? nope. i'll put in my 2 cents, and i know that others will do the same.
do i expect people to make fun of christianity on here? sure. i would venture to say that most designers are non-religious. it's not surprising to me that christians would be mocked here.
i do think it is ridiculous to start threads about religion (christians in particular), make fun of it, and then expect the people you are making fun of not to say anything. if you don't want to hear what teleos or gramme or anyone else has to say, don't bait them into talking about it. you should know by now that given the opportunity, the christians on here are going to talk about their beliefs.
that being said, do i have any hard feelings against people who make fun of or even hate religion? no way. i genuinely like a lot of people on here. we can disagree (civilly, i would hope) on issues, but there are great designers on this site from whom i can learn a lot.
ok, i'm missing the office, so i'll end my rant there.
and if you're going to make fun of me for anything, it should be this: i really, really hate macs.
- why dont you watch the office on itunes, you can see it at anytime.
heh.akrokdesign
- why dont you watch the office on itunes, you can see it at anytime.
- zaq0
- “Aaron’s rod was transformed into a serpent”. Men, I think we’ve all been there.MrOneHundred
- I had a clothing hanger turn into a snake once.. well actually it was a snake all along.neverblink
- sea_sea0
Religion and Politics is something I promised I wouldn't get to much into... BUT!!
Why is it that so many religions base their "core belief system" on the murder of an incredible prophet?! You really think his only reason to come to this earth was to die? to get murdered? don't you think this is somewhat convenient for the "business"? what better business than guilt.. give me your mind and money and you might get a chance to go to heaven... but don't fuck up!
Oh yeah pretty soon they'll start talking about the end of the world and really screw with your head.
Just like the government... keep them in fear in order to control.
PS.. I love Jesus and he loves me and all that cool stuff...
- rtr0
this is all part of your imagination...when i count to three you will...
- TheBlueOne0
Admittedly things do get a bit stupid here in the religious/political threads, and this is a design board ultimately. And I'm a good user of both topics in threads bercause, well those areras interest me outside of design as well. In fact, I think my knowledge of those two areas can't help influence design. Design now is spoken about like it's this thing all to itself, when infact throughout much of history design, if it can even be called that, was used for political and religious purposes. Most art/craft was done at the behest of patrons - usually the State or the Church. To ignore discussing those topics I think does a disservice overall. Way back when I was in college (long time ago, galaxy far away), I was a poly-sci major in what is a huge visual arts/music school (SUNY Purchase). My education on that level was such that politics and religion and design and art all mixed together and I was far richer for that. The learning informed each other. One only has to look art the work of a Mapplethorpe or a Piss-Christ or the Soviets or the Nazis or the Catholic Church, ad naseum, (or even our current culture which divorces art/design from the spiritual/collective in pursuit ofr the commercial/individual) to see that art and religion and politics are one big swirly mess.
- teleos0
I think there is a strong argument to be made for heritable sin. Kids come out of the womb with a bent towards rebellion. You never have to teach them to defiantly shout "NO!". It seems instinctive. We are creatures defined by defiant rebellion, it seems. But it's not just our outward actions, it's the very nature of our being. This is why Jesus said to a very religious man: "You must be born again." Nicodemas had religion, he had rituals, he had morality, but he remained spiritually dead because he was born that way. He inherited it. He didn't need a self-help plan, he needed a new heart. Something he couldn't do for himself.
As the time before Christ came, you have a long history of foreshadowing of his coming. Almost every old testament story has a prophetic element about the coming messiah and his redemptive sacrifice. The OT is shot thru with this message.
- As "for" the time before Christ came...teleos
- So "rebellion" = "spiritual death"? No thanks. We need more rebels, not sheep.TheBlueOne
- Wow. You can justify anything! What a bowl of crap with toast and jam.duckofrubber
- If you start with a faulty premise any conclusion is logical. So it goes...dr_pangloss
- so "christianity" is like a ticket out of this god forsaken world? how much money does that cost? how many brain cells?sea_sea
- ********0
who wants lottery tickets?!!!!
- Khurram0
Christ on a stick you must have some fucked up kids teleos, with views like that.
As far as i see it, we are all born with pure self-esteem until we are fucked up by our parents and societies values. Taught the wonders of shame, guilt, neurosis, expectations, image consciousness, need to fulfill other people's desires... fuck you could go on forever.
This is why i consider the cult of Christ as amongst the most wretched of religions out there. Really gets into your psyche and fucks you up good and proper.
The faster this meme is wiped out of existence, the better.
Me, i'm all Zen like buddah
- "wiped out / zen like buddah".. hahaha nice contradictionneverblink
- teleos0
blueOne: I should have been more specific. It is rebellion against our creator that = spiritual death. The kind of rebellion you proudly display in these discussions. The kind of rebellion I demonstrated before Jesus invaded my heart and life and redeemed me.
Oh we need more rebels, to be sure. The kind that go against the grain of a culture which says God is a myth and I'm ok, you're ok.
- In the OT it's only when every main character rebelled against god that they invoked his attention.TheBlueOne
- That's nonsense. Read your OT.teleos
- Ha. I have. Go reread each characters actions before God reveals himself to them...TheBlueOne
- Moses kills a man, flees into the desert and says "I have become an alien in a foreign land." for exampleTheBlueOne
- Before that God does not speak to Moses at all...TheBlueOne
- Would you like me to cite for you the inumerable passages wherein God approaches an individual...teleos
- due to their kindness or generosity?teleos
- teleos0
Khurram: I'm simply presenting what the Bible teaches. Don't take my word for it, check it out yourself.
The bottom line is that we are broken. We are not as God intended us to be. Fortunately, God offers us salvation as a free gift, in Christ. His justice and wrath were satisfied at the cross. This is why Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship.
What you want eradicated from the earth (how tolerant!) is a strawman in your mind. Not Biblical Christianity.
- TheBlueOne0
The Christian concept of "heritable sin" was used by the Church and the church based european sates (Divine right of kings, Christly ordering of the nobles, etc) as justification to keep financial debts going from generation to generation - as above, so below. You were responsible for the debt accrued by your father, grandfather, etc. Staright down the line. Again, another great way to reinforce the "peasants" meme.
Only with the enlightenment did we get beyond this "heritable debt" concept. Each generation is born new fresh and sinless. Always the forces of fear and darkness trying to drag us back, and usually these forces cloak themselves in goodness and light. Christianity is such tainted goods...everytime they try to divorce it from earthly power they just run right back to it...it's like it can't keep away...
- BINGO.duckofrubber
- Where do you get this cockamaney story? Your imagination? The Bible according to secular humanism?gramme
- ...humanism?gramme
- ********0
is it entirely possible that when jesus said no one can enter the kingdom of heaven without me, that he was speaking metaphorically and meant that all people should remove hate from their hearts and vocabulary and just treat each other with kindness... and that is how people of all races and cultures can 'know jesus' even if they are not christian.
isn't it also entirely possible that arguing these personal beliefs on what is supposedly a design forum is genuinely inaapropriate and takes away from time that could be devoted to posting t&a pics in the pic of the day thread?
just my opinion... god how i hope im flamed for having an opnion
- Read John Ch. 3. I think you may feel differently afterwards.teleos
- i'm sure ive heard it... funny thing about the gospels is they are all different********
- because its different peoples perspectives, different opnions...********