Moses was High
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- CALLES0
ladies and gentelman!
i present you
Moses...
- imagine walking around with that fucker for 40 minutesCALLES
- I expected beefier arms for some reason...TheBlueOne
- less humerous too...********
- hahhahahah!!sea_sea
- ********0
so no one wants lottery tickets?
- TheBlueOne0
Also interesting that as we as a species have evolved "God" such as he is conceptually speaking has gotten smaller and smaller, or more accurately confined, to smaller and smaller areas of conjecture as what we know about the earth/universe has become knowable and predictable.
A God was needed (as a source of knowledge/wisdom) to tell us about what things are good to eat, where we came from, how things came to be, how the stars, sun, moon, etc worked, how the harvest thing worked, how babies got made, and about the concepts of justice/punishment, etc...
As we as a species through various cultural filters figured this stuff out they left God's domain and entered man's. God, conceptually, is left with little area to work in - shrunk now to that bit of space/time before the Big Bang, as to the guy that set evolution in motion, maybe...but he hasn't much relinquished the area around fundamental Human Nature, because we and life in general are so darn unpredictable - hence the hoary old "Why does god allow bad people to do bad things" area of conjecture...God gets that by default because we'll probably never come up with a satisfactory answer...
I do believe we humans do have some deep biological need for a spiritual touchstone to reality - but I think it's wholly biological in basis and the imagined god/gods are filters of that deep seated need...the lessons of history are rife with the ruins of religions and spiritual practices, and as much as you declare your own as supreme, it's feet are as much clay as any other. At least in terms of hubris and granduer of answering all the questions...
- gramme0
TheBlueOne and several others,
You raise interesting points and questions. Just wanted to let you all know I intend to answer those issues that teleos has not addressed; I'm just swamped right now, so it will be over the weekend.
Until then: God is love, and that is the message of the gospel. No better balm to ease the suffering of the world has ever been nor can ever be contrived. It is not nihilism, it is ultimate meaning, hope and freedom from the chains of mortality and pain.
- God is BS.czawada
- If god is love, it is absolutely nothing like what human know about love.ephix
- exactly, ephix. Our concepts of love are quite flawed.gramme
- the most selfless human love, is that really that flawed?ephix
- yes, because humans are intrinsically selfish, even the best of us.gramme
- sp how is this love that we know nothing about relevant to any of us?ephix
- what if love is just love?
And love is just a nice thing?Fariska
- Mimio0
I love you, but step out of line before saying you're sorry, and I may have to torture you for eternity.
- teleos0
blueOne: It may be true that humanity has "designed" a certain caricature of God over the eons, but I am unconvinced that the Christian God as portrayed in the Bible, is something conjured up by a superstitious humanity. I would argue that the nature of the gospel message itself flies in the face of human nature and stands in stark contrast to the performance-based righteousness systems which appeal so to our egocentric even narcissistic nature and which we have a tremendous propensity for inventing. Put simply, it ain't something humans would have come up with no matter how much time you throw at us.
As for God's relevancy over time, reality doesn't square up with your belief. People continue to yearn for something beyond them. Something which isn't satisfied in enlightenment era speculations (hence our post-modern spiritual craving). Churches continue to swell with people of all walks who desperately seek to fill the gap in their hearts. Reductionist notions of spiritual cravings as merely biological, don't work since human consciousness and morality cannot be explained in materialist terms. With all of our research, with all of our knowledge, the nature of the mind and spiritually elude us and defy merely physicalist explanations. The reality of first-person perspective, the existance of true propositions and immaterial information which doesn't require us, demonstrates this as well.
- spiritually = spirituality.teleos
- Actually organized religion is losing popularity in America.
http://religions.pew…
Mimio - Not what that study shows, mimio. It shows diversity and people chaning religions...teleos
- Leaving certain "faiths" and establishing new ones, etc...teleos
- Nice attempt at simplifying it though.teleos
- It does say that. They may be identified as "Christian" but don't belong to a church, also the unaffiliated group is larger(16.1%)Mimio
- ...16.1 % Which has grown 1+ % from the previous study. Specifically it says Protestant Christianity is less popular.Mimio
- islandbridge0
No doubt he was.
Even the first printed Bible was made on hemp paper 1450 years later. Johann Gutenberg even left 10 pages blank in the end in case one should run low on rolling papers.
- duckofrubber0
Bump for stoned Moses!
- TheBlueOne0
"Put simply, it ain't something humans would have come up with no matter how much time you throw at us."
What a god in man's image that appeals to escaping our primal fear of death and utilizing basic inherent psychological parental models?
Yeah..wow...that's really something humans could never come up with.
- bzzzzt, wrong. Not even close to what I said/implied. I was speaking of the...teleos
- ...unmerited favor shown towards sinners by a holy and loving God. You don't find this in world religions.teleos
- Christianity IS one of the world religions.Mimio
- also, it's an incredibly stupid argument to make. I could say that the Epic of Gilgamesh is divinely inspired too.Mimio
- brandonrichards0
Some people don't believe we landed on the moon either, that it was faked in Hollywood, but does that mean we really didn't? The truth is not in ourselves to know, but its outside ourselves to find, and when we find it, then we will be free and have the understanding that there is something greater than ourselves.
- TheBlueOne0
Good points here as well which are also in the historical record, although you'll twist some sort of logic or come up with some self-referential source to discount what the actual text says, although you swear that the whole thing is literal:
http://myspeculation.blogspot.co…
Christianity: Pretzel Religion
- "Who Wrote the Bible?" by Richard Friedman has similar conclusions.Mimio
- gramme0
TheBlueOne,
Wow. That essay is so chock-full of logical non-sequiturs and complete misunderstandings of context and history, that I am surprised you – a seemingly intelligent man – think it's worth a hill of beans. Again, I'm pretty swamped at the moment (I barely had time to read the essay), but you have my word, I'll address this guy's statements along with everything else I've promised to answer later on this weekend.
- So the concept of a polytheistic roots of judaism is discussed among biblical scholars then?
TheBlueOne - I didn't say it was a good essay, just bringing up some points...TheBlueOne
- So the concept of a polytheistic roots of judaism is discussed among biblical scholars then?
- ********0
i for one am tired of all these gays prancing around everywhere spreading their sinny sin sin...
i say we protest an innocent man's funeral
- teleos0
Judaism has always been fiercely monotheistic. I'm always amused at attempts to revise it's history. Norman Geisler demolished such notions years ago in "When Critics Ask"...
- teleos0
another classic which is a great reference to have on hand...
- Mimio0
Does Geisler or McDowell have answers for the indefensible beliefs like demon possession and zombies running around ancient Jerusalem?
- TheBlueOne0
Look, Teleos, AGAIN you NEVER NEVER point to independent scholarship outside the Evangelical tradition. NEVER. All these books you put up are form Evangelical scholars published by Evangelical publishing houses. How about some non-religious scholarship? How about some Jewish scholarship? No? Because it doesn't reflect your "immutable beliefs"??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nor…
Here's his publisher: http://www.zondervan.com/culture…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos…
Here's his publisher:
http://www.thomasnelson.com/cons…How about an actual academic publisher? And not a fucking Evangelical christian publisher. Huh? No, wait..
It's a fucking circle jerk for you, yet you clai that you're logical, scientific. Just bullshit. Jesus I studied with a Jewish scholar (Lee Schlesinger from Yale) and we had lengthy discussions about polytheism in pre-Moses judaic culture. Fuuuck. Everything with you is a tautalogical circle jerk. You wouldn't understand what the enlightenment was about if it bit you on the ass.
You do NOT understand the first thing about science if you do not understand the BASIC concept of Independent Verification.
Why bother....
Ow, you won. I cursed. I'm a bad man. I let my emotions get the best of me. I suck. I'm a tool of the devil. Whatever. You've crapped on the chessboard, go tell all your other sheep you won the match.
- Exactly, They don't come more scholarly than this guy:
http://en.wikipedia.…
Mimio - Actually if you will read, Josh McDowell was actually an atheist and researched academically and found evidence he couldnt deny, it doesn't mean he isn't the academic scholar you are looking for because he is 'Christian'brandonrichards
- Exactly, They don't come more scholarly than this guy:
- TheBlueOne0
And just for shits and giggles, here's some dismantaling of your point man there Josh McDowell:
http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/sho…
And besides, this only highlights my larger point that this is all just a gigantic COMIC BOOK, and you guys are all geeks. That's it. You dig through all this stuff to score little points and shit and find some sort of self affirmation yet yet..there's nothing inherently "christian" about it in my reading of Jesus' words.
Did he say "Though shalt read constantly about my arrival and try to endlessly search for clues in the Torah and speak endlessly of it..."
No, he said. Pray in your own way, do it out of the sight of the public and do good shit.
Fuck..all these multi-levels of hell, original sin, forgiveness..you're all just Jesus geeks with no relevance to real life. You're modern day pharisees and the funny thing is you don't even see it..you're as blind as they were. J-man would be having a jolly laugh at you when he was hanging out with us sinners..and you'd be like "J-man..why are you hanging with these prostitutes and graphic designers and heavy metal fans..please come back and talk to us again of your rising unto heaven...and he'd be like..dude, lighten up...
- Again I emphasis:
You're modern day Pharisees and the funny thing is you don't even see itTheBlueOne - Spot on : )dr_pangloss
- thank u.********
- Again I emphasis:
- mrdobolina0
I never use this term but you were just fucking pwned by theblueone, teleos.