Brexit
- Started
- Last post
- 1,918 Responses
- Hayoth-5
I wish this would be a blow to the new world order, but the truth is UK will probably be starved to death and collapse while the people cry out for 'someone' to help them.
The EU destroyed Europe, and now that forced everyone into massive debt and migrated hoards of radical Islam into the countries (not including Russia's geopolitics) you are looking at major catastrophe (done on purpose).
The EU leaders want the EU to beg for world govt, and they will bring war, terrorism and economic collapse to do it...across the globe.
- true_cut-2
#MakeBritainHateAgain
- kingkong-2
I thought this article just about nails it. There is a hell of a lot of doom and gloom around at the moment.
It will be fine everyone, don't worry :)
---
If the central purpose of Brexit is to restore the supremacy of Parliament, we should congratulate Labour for forcing a debate on the proposed terms of withdrawal. Let us demand that MPs should have a vote as well.
Brexit belongs to no faction. The referendum was not an election where the winner takes all. The circumstances are entirely sui generis and extremely delicate.
Both Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to remain, and the constitutional implications of this have yet to be confronted. A great majority of those below the age of thirty opposed Brexit, and many feel betrayed. It amounts to an inter-generational crisis.
The exact contours of Brexit were never defined. There was no Manifesto. The binary ballot presented to us on June 23 - nolens volens - contained not a single word about immigration. Many who voted to leave the EU want a liberal, amicable, open settlement with Europe.
It is the proper role of Parliament to discern the national will, and to impose its verdict on ministers. Theresa May is well-advised to bow to this imperative before Article 50 is triggered, even if raucous wrangling in the House greatly complicates negotiating tactics with Brussels.
That said, one must guard against certain vested interests in the City that are actively seeking to whip up hysteria in financial markets. There is an attempt underway to create a bad Brexit narrative in the hope of overturning it, or at least to frighten the country into a minimalist outcome that achieves much the same thing.
The interests of the financial elites should not be conflated with the national interest. A legitimate case can be made that they are in conflict.
Paul Krugman, the Nobel trade theorist, says the UK has been suffering from a variant of the "Dutch Disease", an over-reliance on finance that drove up pound and hollowed out manufacturing industries. This economic deformation has greatly enriched London's financial set and those who service its wealth, if non-one else.
here may be serious economic trials ahead as we extract ourselves from the EU after more than forty years, but the slump in sterling is not one of them. The devaluation is necessary and desirable. The pound is now near 'fair value' based on the real effective exchange rate used by the International Monetary Fund.
All that has happened is a correction of the extreme over-valuation of sterling before Brexit, caused by capital inflows. This left the country with the worst current account deficit in peace-time since records began in the 18th Century.
The fall is roughly comparable to the devaluation from 2007 to 2008 - though the same financial elites who talk so much of Armageddon today played it down on that occasion, mindful that their own banking crisis was the trigger.
We can argue over how much the 2008 devaluation helped but it clearly acted as shock absorber at a crucial moment. It was in any case a far less painful way to restore short-term competitiveness than the 'internal devaluations' and mass unemployment suffered by the eurozone's Club Med bloc.
But there is a deeper point today that is often overlooked. Central banks across the developed world are caught in a deflationary trap. The 'Wicksellian' or natural rate of interest has been falling ever lower with each economic cycle and is now at or below zero in half the global economy, a full seven years into the expansion.
This paralyses monetary policy and has dark implications for the next downturn. It is why central banks are desperately trying to drive down their currencies to gain a little breathing room, or in the case of the US Federal Reserve to stop the dollar rising.
By the accident of Brexit, Britain has pulled off a Wicksellian adjustment that eludes others.
With luck, the economy may even generate a few flickers of inflation, enough to let the Bank of England raise interest rates and start to restore 'intertemporal' equilibrium.
Personally, I have been in favour of a "soft Brexit" that preserves unfettered access to the single market and passporting rights for the City, but not at any political cost - and certainly not if it means submitting to the European Court, which so cynically struck down our treaty opt-out on the Charter in a grab for sweeping jurisdiction.
But what has caused me to harden my view - somewhat - is the open intimidation by a number of EU political leaders. "There must be a threat," said French president Francois Hollande. "There must be a price... otherwise other countries or other parties will want to leave the European Union."
These are remarkable comments in all kinds of ways, not least in that the leader of a democratic state is threatening a neighbouring democracy and military ally. What he is also admitting - à son insu - is that the union is held together only by fear. He might as well write its epitaph.
Mr Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel invariably fall back on the four freedoms -movement, goods, services, and capital -enshrined in EU treaty law, as if they were sacrosanct.
These freedoms are nothing but pious shibboleths. They often do not exist, and where they do exist they are routinely honoured in the breach. Services make up 70pc of the EU economy yet account for just 22pc of internal EU trade. All attempts to open services up to cross-border commerce have been defeated, to the detriment of Britain.
The sorry saga of the Services Directive in 2006 tells all you need to know about how the EU works. "The French and Germans gutted it," said Professor Alan Riley from the Institute for Statecraft.
The 'country of origin rule' that would have allowed firms to operate anywhere in the EU under their own domestic law was dropped, casualty of the "Polish plumber" scare. The directive did not cover health care, transport, legal services, professions, tax experts, and the like. Germany protected it guilds.
Online and digital trade across borders remains minimal, riddled with barriers. Britain's All-Party Parliamentary Group for European Reform concluded that "there is no single market in services in any meaningful sense."
As Brussels correspondent I covered the parallel fiasco of the takeover directive. This too was sabotaged by France and Germany, after fourteen wasted years. They reinstated poison pills and a host of tricks in an explicit attempt to stop 'Anglo-Saxon predators' taking over their companies, even as their own companies were free to stalk British prey.
"It was disgusting," one Commission official told me at the time. Frits Bolkestein, the quixotic single market chief, was despondent. "It is tragic to see how Europe's broader interests can be frustrated by certain narrow interests," he said.
So much for the freedoms of capital and services. Nor has the free movement of people been strictly upheld. France and Germany - unlike Britain - blocked access to their labour markets and welfare systems for East Europeans for seven years after they joined the EU in 2004. It was political decision.
The four freedoms are really just aspirational guidelines, enforced when expedient, neglected at other times. The rigid exhortations from Paris, Berlin, and Brussels that there can be no free trade with Britain unless there is unrestricted migration - even after leaving the EU - is politics masquerading as principle. If they want to find a compromise solution, they can do so easily.
It is an odd spectacle. On the one hand the EU is so insecure that it talks of punishing Britain to deter other escapees; on the other it exhibits an imperial reflex, demanding submission entirely on its own terms, seemingly unable to accept or even to imagine a reciprocal trading relationship based on sovereign equality.
Mr Hollande wishes to bring about the hardest possible Brexit. If this proves to be the EU position - and it may not be, since it is lunacy and he for one will soon be irrelevant - it does at least clarify the issue.
A hard Brexit was never my preference. While the economic benefits of the EU customs union are greatly overstated, it would be no small matter to unwind the nexus of cross-border supply chains that has evolved over decades.
But if that is the only choice, so be it.
- M01XXX-9
I was pro "Remain" but I don't understand the big hype about the EU. On paper it's a good concept but in reality it's a big, bureaucratic, wasteful mess.
And why is there still such a big discussion. There was a democratic referendum and people have voted. What would remainers say if brexiters lost and wanted a second referendum to overthrow the outcome?
That's exactly what the war criminal Tony Blair wants. To overthrow a democratic outcome. If a war criminal like Tony Blair is pushing something then for sure it can't be that great.
- Democratic based on lies. So many false information make by the exit side.
Also they forgot about the Ireland border.pango - It's always "lies" when you don't like the result.M01XXX
- Also by your logic. The Nazis in UK wants Brexit. That means it sure can't be great.pango
- No not always. Where's that money farage said they are going to get? Never gonna happen.pango
- The day after the referendum Nigel Farage himself said it was all lie. now that's a fact. even if I don't like it.pango
- https://www.youtube.…pango
- Who cares about Farage. Brexit/ UK is more than him. I just don't get the hype about the EU.M01XXX
- no no no. you said "It's always "lies" when you don't like the result.
doesn't seem like that at all. it was in fact a lie.pango - also what would you say about UK nazis supporting brexit?pango
- they were also promised the same benefit out side EU. Noooope. not gonna happen.pango
- the hype is real. it's gonna effect 65 million people's life. for better or worse. so far it's a mess.pango
- People talk about it as a 1 decision process: stay in EU or not.shapesalad
- But the more important part is next: how does leaving EU look, what concessions can we get if we stay in EU?shapesalad
- ^ and at the moment the 2nd part has been shown to be a dogs dinner. There's no clear picture on how UK would operate out of the EU.shapesalad
- When they finally decide how that would look, we need a vote on it. It always should have been a 2 part question: In EU or not, if not, ok with this deal?shapesalad
- britain isn't dead yet and they've got all her shit on gumtree.kingsteven
- No idea why people downvote this. You can't fucking argue with the sound logic of this post.set
- you're joking right? logic? tony blair likes guitars too, gonna burn your SG?kingsteven
- i dunno if you've ever experienced a referendum anywhere else in europe but even simple topics are voted on multiple times and often disregarded.kingsteven
- It's so true though that if the outcome was in your favour and leavers wanted a second referendum you'd be up in arms. lol to that.set
- You can't pick and choose democracy when it suits you.set
- I'm not a brexiter by any stretch, before some cunt shouts it, I'm just not emotionally invested and able to look at it from an impartial position.set
- a vote on the details of the deal is different to simply running the original again because you don't like the result. I can't stand the idea of another one butFax_Benson
- there's a clear distinction - one that brexiters are happy not make.Fax_Benson
- *not to makeFax_Benson
- but noone wants a second referendum Set, people are just concerned about the final deal. The 2nd referendum thing died ages ago, not sure why it's being broughtfadein11
- up.fadein11
- Blair is a turd after some attention.fadein11
- "I'm not a brexiter by any stretch" hang on, you posted on this site you were. The plot thickens...fadein11
- I did not, mr black and white, I simply suggested one or two benefits of it, once upon a time.set
- Believe it or not there are benefits to both sides.set
- eh? you clearly stated numerous times you have voted leave. are you mad? we had a massive comment section on it lol.fadein11
- I even remember saying you voted leave for valid reasons.fadein11
- as i said set, i have two passports, whatever the deal it's more likely to be beneficial to me than to you. i only want a second ref to stick it to cunts thatkingsteven
- they thought it inconsequential that their regional europe-bordering ex. warzone voted remain.kingsteven
- so not sure how enraged i'd feel if it was reversed, still i don't see what logic has to do with any of it hahkingsteven
- lol, hilarious... you were one of the few Brits on here who openly admitted you had voted Leave. Wow.fadein11
- I didn't vote leave, lolset
- ok, but you do remember our longwinded discussion on why you had voted leave? Whether you did or not you stated you had then and I agreed with a lot of yourfadein11
- points. You do remember that no?fadein11
- I remember making points for and against it but I didn't vote leave...set
- oh christ I wish this site had a search, we had one of those epic discussions (that ended well) where you said you voted leave and your reasons for doing so.fadein11
- Democratic based on lies. So many false information make by the exit side.
- docpoz-3
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
DELETE DOC POZ
- NBQ00-6
- the £8.5b is like the money you pay on transport to get yourself to work, in order to get a salary, or in other words, jobs/investment and high GDP of UK.shapesalad
- Would Japan have invested so heavily in the UK in 80's had it not been sold to them as a gateway to EU? And would all those employed by japanese Co's had decentshapesalad
- jobs if we weren't paying 8.5b to be part of the EU? Well... seems we'll soon find out the hard way...shapesalad
- and that £8.5b is a tiny fraction of the UK's GDP. But that huge GDP is soon going to be a tiny fraction of it's former self once out of the EU.shapesalad
- don't bring Columbo into this.Gnash
- Columbo would have a brain aneurysm trying to decipher the Brexit MysteryPhanLo
- ^ ironically, he was known for his false exitsGnash
- https://www.youtube.…Bluejam
- shapesalad-2
The only good thing to come out of Brexit:
- colin_s-5
https://twitter.com/MichaelPeter…
lol
"I think we (UK) should simply invade Ireland (military wise), peacefully as there wouldn't be a resistance. Dissolve the Irish gvt partially, job done. Ireland leaves with the rest of the people that have been carrying it for centuries."
there wouldn't be a resistance
y'all brits sometimes...- One ignorant trolling fuckwit does not a nation make.Nairn
- Ah, I forgot - you're in Ireland now, aren't you? Gotcha.Nairn
- So this is Ant Middleton's brother?fadein11
- (as in the SAS veteran and now TV celebrity)fadein11
- If they did that, I'd join the RA for a laugh. Britain is fucked.PhanLo
- Whit aboot yon Tartan Army?Nairn
- My dad had me believing that he'd stashed weapons for the Tartan Army when I was a bairn. I was probably in my late-twenties before I got the joke.Nairn
- The Tartan Army have a heavy stash of Tennents for football games. :-)PhanLo
- shapesalad-2
The number of people homeless in London has drastically been reduced by 1 today as a middle aged man by the name of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, born in America, an immigrant, finally moved off his 'half his age' girlfriend's couch into No.10 Downing Street.
- yurimon-4
145,074 lead to leave...
- now 229,211yurimon
- 259,928yurimon
- 313,161yurimon
- 318,444yurimon
- 335,294yurimon
- wow 392,478yurimon
- 419,127 n climbing. have to admit i'm a bit surprised.yurimon
- 448,419yurimon
- 464,188 we have take off? going to be tense if its starts to narrow again.yurimon
- 556,638 getting anticlimacticyurimon
- london coming in dropping the lead 441,284yurimon
- 438,611 flux. still comfy.yurimon
- jumped, 614,154yurimon
- 690,915 a new high #yurimon
- 764,876 oy m8yurimon
- yurimon-7
I spoke to my executive friends who do business in EU. prob the biggest prob is figuring out how to price goods at the moment.
but dudes its 2 years away. anything can happen in 2 years. its going to be the same till agreements are made. maybe there will be an extension who knows.
- "I spoke to my executive friends"
stop.sted - you could have learned this yesterday if you watched any major news channelsmonospaced
- sorry i was busy, next time id stay home and cuddle myself with cnn thinking you are watching the same. hehe (sarcasm)yurimon
- they are bit lost on what to do, which is sad. i cant help them.yurimon
- lol @ "i cant help them"monospaced
- duh! I'm not in finance. monofaceyurimon
- I don't think you are able to help anybody....pango
- dont think pango. maybe thats better for you.yurimon
- Exactly. Don't even need to think and I know you can help anybody. It's just not possible.pango
- Cantpango
- pango can you at least challenge me with some wit. not this pms bitch mood crap you come up with from your blonde whore days.yurimon
- "I spoke to my executive friends"
- yurimon-7
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016…Brexit: a Victory for Britain’s Working Class
- crap article. makes no reference to the fact that the champions of Brexit have championed policies that decimate the working class communities.lowimpakt
- Some are also thatcherites, who led a war against the british working class.lowimpakt
- Can you show me an example of the policies, id like to read up on it.yurimon
- The working class are tired of being fucked over and abandoned by the political class and need any change.lowimpakt
- I think its common through out most of the world.yurimon
- getting the right causes, action seems difficultyurimon
- The media guides the whole thing along and is all incredibly well synchronized. It's always about getting around the law, creating a platform for takeovers etc.rosko_picachu
- Yes. Eastern Europeans who clean toilets are to blame for the complicit destruction of the shipbuilding, coal, and steel industries that occurred 30 years ago.face_melter
- And they are also to blame for the decisions made by politicians not to do a damn fucking thing to help the communitiesface_melter
- that those policies absolutely annihilated. Fucking rotten article.face_melter
- Hayoth-11
The Brits should stoked. And should those that support nations ruling their own affairs, against world govt and unelected administrators. I understand Europe has lived under communism for a long time but by golly George, get some independence and freedom in your blood! Dump the Marxist collective ideology!
No more unelected beauracy forcing radical islam, taxes, tarrifs, regulations and all the idiocy of centralized power destroying national sovereignty on the British people. I guess we will see...
Check out these stupid regulations!
http://www.businessinsider.com/e…Are you OK with the EU forcing germany bail out Greece?
Are you OK with the EU bringing in radical Islamists from the middle East while refusing to help the Christians in the ME who are being genocided?
Are you OK with the EU imposing laws and taxes without the will of the people?
Are you OK with being ruled by unelected administrators?
Common sense has been destroyed.
Stop repeating TV arguments and start reading.
- Radical Islamists...says fucking who? So all Muslims are fucking jihadis? Fuck me.BusterBoy
- *facepalmd_gitale
- Pretty much a full house on my swivel-eyed bingo card: world govt., Communism, Islam, taxes, bureaucracy.face_melter
- FLOLfadein11
- lolpango
- There's actually so much wrong with this I don't know where to start. Not a single factual point made. The only correct thing is the spelling of some wordslowimpakt
- 'Common sense has been destroyed' just about sums up your own posttrue_cut
- Summed as a power grab of powerful people, using various methods of control via propaganda, those methods include but not limited to cultural marxismyurimon
- as one of its tools. the others hayoth listed.yurimon
- Damn. So close to bingo. I'm missing illutinati.pango
- drgs-3
Fuck em
- valentim-8
When you fucking off?
- Oh hey there little sensitive Portuguese man of whineset
- not for agesFax_Benson
- lol @ setoey
- How's your economy doing?detritus
- I'm getting a little tired of the pissy flop-wristed attempts at schadenfreude by a few people I once quite liked on tehforumz - enjoy your EU clusterfuck.detritus
- I don't massively agree with 'Brexit' but I don't find it justification for people to be sore losers - mind your own shit, you're neck deep in it enough.detritus
- At least people here had a say, whether you agree with it or not - how much note did the Federation take of all the other No-voting referenda over the years?detritus
- hey! here is where everyone is!sureshot
- yes! we are all here!oey
