Scottish independence
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- babaganush0
I think many are over it. Most recognise that devolution isn't a goodthing for Britain (granted the clamour of westminster). Or Scotland...we don't want to make stuff harder on ourselves from devolution or see these questions left un-answered post-vote. But to be honest I think most are now beyond caring and just want to know. In my opinion it's lunacy and all half-rational stats and thought supports this. I don't want to see Scottish devolution fail...I just think it will and we will all need to pay the price. @Rosko's points do nothing to bring common sense to the table (as is the case for everything I have heard pro 'yes'.
So if the people residing in Scotland are obstinent enough en-mass to feel that they need to prove they are proudly Scottish by flying in the face of this then let's just get it out of the way.
- rosko_picachu0
I dare you to watch this.
- set0
Doesn't quite have the same ring to it, does it...
- BusterBoy0
- Right.DRIFTMONKEY
- Always give 110% mate!zarkonite
- lol @ CNNsem
- ukit20
I think it's pretty clearly going to be no based on the polls. A 4-6 percent difference doesn't sound like much, but that's a pretty big gap in a country of millions of people.
- lowimpakt0
independence is a bit of an illusion but its attraction is deeply emotional.
i'd say the Welsh would be more enthusiastic about independence if they had some oil or equivalent and all their coal hadn't been soaked up by the empire already.
If Scotland go for independence it will be really interesting for the Unionists in Northern Ireland. They are already very isolated.
If Scotland apply to the EU they will have to join Schengen which theoretically could involve border checks between england/scotland.
- i_monk0
I don't think the UK can actually stop Scotland from adopting the pound as their currency. Iceland nearly adopted the Canadian dollar a few years ago after their banker capitalists fucked over the country, and as I recall there was nothing we could do to stop them if they really wanted to (not sure why we'd want to though).
- Wolfboy0
@sem
I pretty much agree with what you say there but I'd take it further. As you say:
"Many Scots seem to think they are not voting for independence from the rest of the UK but for independence from the laws of economics"
But the Yes voters also seem to think they'll be creating some political utopia where things will be different to the rest of the democratic world. So many Scots who will be voting yes keep telling me that the vote is about no longer being ruled by the type of government we currently have in the UK (a government that will more than likely change at the next election).
Here's a quote from one of my Scottish friend and I think he might have painted his face blue before typing this. He tells his fellow Scots that they are wrong in the head for voting to stay a part of the union and then says:
"In a more just and democratic future when your grandchildren ask you if you supported the great change what are you going to tell them. That you were scared, that you thought a bunch of self serving Etonian scum seemed like a better choice"
They seem to think that Scotland is immune to a government from the right, that their new politicians are going to be more transparent and honest.
They will not.
Like the economics there are natural laws and balances in politics. They'll get their own Scottish right wing, their own 'Etonian Scum'.
Not that they'll need to wait too long for their own scum bag politicians as the current lot appear to be just as deceitful and self-serving. Here’s a story on the character of Alex Salmond, obviously this is in the Tory-graph and isn’t hard hitting journalism, but if it does show how he deflects journalists from the truth or lack of answers he hardly holds any kind of moral high ground in terms of the kind of politician he is:
- are you scottish?lowimpakt
- The SNP are already exaggerating about how much oil they have. Every government will suffer from some form of corruption.sem
- corruption. But I want them to do it so they can wake up from this pipe dream of "we don't need the UK"sem
- No, I'm English. But I've taken an interest because I've got quite a few Scots friends on both sides of the voting line.Wolfboy
- Plus, it's going to effect the rest of the UK too. So it's good to have a grasp of the ins and outs.Wolfboy
- detritus0
I was up in Edinburgh recently, as my Dad's recently bought a wee flat there. I must admit, my heart got carried away with things as I looked around and I saw the earnestness with which her youth appeared to support independence. I thought, for the first time "well, why not?".
That was two weeks ago. I've since read up as much as I can and am now back thinking "it's too late, it's a bad time and it's a terribly-unconsidered and mostly reactionary stance".
The economics are grim and the sad fact is, the young earnest supporters of the Yes! camp would be the most-fucked by its outcome. It'd be a generation or so before the dust settled and the benefits reaped, and in the mean time, Scotland's youth would be left with even less opportunity than which they are faced with now.
.
My family's wholly Scottish, but I'm from the North East of England, where I've lived for a good 15 years of my life - like wolfboy, I consider myself more 'British' than English or Scottish.
The problems faced by Scotland are the exact-same as those faced by The North, by Wales, by Cornwall or Northern Ireland. Christ, by the Midlands, by Manchester and the middle belt - by Birmingham.
London and its city are a quasi-city state that at once acts as an all-consuming cancer, sucking away at the lifeblood of the rest of the country... as well as, perversely, resulting in a hugely inordinate share of the entire country's income.
The solution to Britain lies not in its dismemberment, rather in a greater involvement and cohesion.
Remember New Labour, before the Fall? Anyone recall how it was referred to as the ‘Scottish Mafia’, because of the large percentage of Scots who ran it and thusly, the whole country?
Times may have changed, but the Scottish core of New Labour didn't work in Scotland interests back then, merely fobbing Her off with a diluted version of devolution — what makes anyone think an independent Scotland's politicans of tomorrow will be any more self-interested?
Who was it that lost Scotland to the English in the first place? The English did their thing, sure — but it was our own who fucked things up for everyone else.
Self-interest fucks things up for everyone, everywhere.
Always has, always will.
- sem0
Newsweek journalists are worst than Daily Mail.
- microkorg0
- Best option probably.babaganush
- fuck it we should just keep the old one.hans_glib
- Yeh, if they want us to remove the blue, they'll have to fucken fight us for it,yeh ? Yeh !??mikotondria3
- On the northern boarders, like the good old daysgoldieboy
- oey0
One of the best record labels ever, when it comes to indie music, comes from Scotland: Postcard.
We always liked to say that a certain band was edited by Postcard from Scotland.
One would never say just Postcard.
Postcard from Scotland.
Beautiful.
- sem0
Glasgow Population: 598,830
75% of said population voted.
YES: 194,779
NO: 169,347Glasgow was one of only 4 of 32 regions to win the YES vote.
The NO votes won by almost 400,000 votes overall, do the math. I think if over 400,000 votes were rigged there would be a lot more proof.
Plus most importantly, the areas with the most oil control didn't just win the NO vote by a little...it was a clear NO victory. Shetlands would have prob wanted their own independence if the YES votes won.
Is it not more likely that the bitter losers are finding any excuse avoid accepting the fact that they do not speak for Scotland as a whole?
- User deleted their "proof" video once the media jumped on it. Prob cos he would have to prove more and can't.sem
- dont you want to be free in your kilt?yurimon
- Surely a find like a ton of votes in the bin would have resulted in more than just a youtuber making a video about it. He would have kept them, put pics online etcsem
- would have kept them, put pics online etc. Instead he made a video that he deleted once people questioned its authenticity.sem
- authenticity. Its like the video claiming the guy was filling out votes. Didn't show WHAT votes or anything.sem
- I can wear a kilt anytime Yuri, we don't need borders to grant me access :)sem
- that was a metaphor sem.
Claim your birth rights. thats what its all about. most free peoples have been conquered on the planet.yurimon - Independence that creates borders on an Island this small don't make sense. Unity and growth together = progress.sem
- The people united just need to come together and change the 1% that are messing things up. It will happen.sem
- More awareness on this http://www.theguardi…sem
- sem0
- CALLES0
100!
- microkorg0
Was in Glasgow today. Buchanan Street is chocca with YES and NO campaigners, folk running about with scottish flags. Bedlam!
Tomorrow there's seemingly an anti-BBC protest happening.
- yurimon0
Scotland aint going to get shit but a bunch of stupid politicians replacing a stupid system for another one. the New generation is dumb as fuck compared to those who understood what freedom was in the past times who fought the British. independence is anarchy... /<end>
