Scottish independence
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- Wolfboy0
If you are correct about all this Rosko then good luck to Scotland and the tidal wave of awesome that is coming when you're no longer held back by the English who apparently wouldn't want any of this for the UK.
And it's great that you have worked with the guys who will change everything for the better so have the inside line on the future; but I'm gonna suggest that most people still get their information from traditional outlets. Most people still turn on the TV, read the papers and listen to the figureheads feeding them their particular line of bullshit. In this case Alex Salmond and the Yes campaign he is spearheading. So I think it might be touch presumptuous to say that nobody is interested in him.
I seriously hope you are right though and if this new ecologically sound, fair and prosperous country emerges I might even emigrate myself.
In the end though, I think you'll have a very similar government, peopled by self-serving arseholes (they're certainly operating up there right now), that is only as progressive as every other government. Despite what is being said in blogs at the moment, as soon as they are into the political cycle they will not be thinking much further than the next election and how to keep/take power. And that requires short term view, lowest common denominator politics.
- babaganush0
I'm not hostile at all. I started by probing some quite frankly ridiculous points a few pages back. You are confusing hostility for counter debate. I got tired of rhetoric (not from you).
I agree on negotiations constantly happening but I still don't see the figures adding up.
You start with a big debt that you defer (I'd bet my house it won't be dropped).
You lose I think at least 30,000 jobs off the bat through trident moving, the banks then need a stable platform from which to be underwritten (bank of England).
You maybe barter with your biggest immediate asset -
Oil. Primarily (possibly) to offset your immediate debt. Based on a
Scarce resource and promise if more oil even though companies like BP are washing their hands.You use GBP? Over which you have no control. Or you use euro
Greed is what is fucking up the UK and many feel the voice of the common man is better served together than secular thinking. There is plenty of wealth in the Uk it's about a concerted effort to see that wealth appropriated far, far more justly.
- sem0
IN BEFORE COOL STORY BRO!
I stated that the 1st link looked fake because of the big quality changes and the fact that the lip sync was off. If you guys can't see why anyone would question that they hey, what can I say. You probably believe a lot of stuff on youtube then. I was not the only one who felt like it looked dodgy just look at its comments.
I then voice my concern over the fact that people DO make fakes like that online and its worrying how much effort some would go though to make something like that. HAD that been as fake as it looked it would have fallen under the "this person is clearly crazy" bunch.
However 2nd video was posted with better quality, more reliable source etc (don't know why that one wasn't posted first? as if people need the captions between to explain whats actually going on but still) and when I could see him ACTUALLY say it with his lips moving then of corse I could believe it more and admitted I was wrong on the matter of the authenticity of that video.
---- Please Read This Part ----
The main thing here guys is this. I was wrong about that one given example and admitted it. You guys arguing against anyone who disagree's with you and have not once said "Oh yeah, I was wrong about that bit" when people here have shown you countless evidence to says otherwise.You just continue to rant on and ignore when you're fact checked and have decided to post several times about the one time I was wrong which pretty much sums up this thread.
You ignore all the points people are showing you (to help you btw, oil lies etc don't effect us) and just focus on what benefits your view. I'm gonna just go back to the fun part of QBN and leave you angry little men praising the north while living in the south get on with it. Good luck either way, but I'm bored of this argument now.
Enjoy.
- Would be great if you could show me where I am wrong.chossy
- kingkong0
and most likely all the rich English people will buy up a load of Scottish property when prices tank in a few weeks.
- Maybe you should go and look at what caused house prices to crash in Americarosko_picachu
- detritus0
If you dug deeper, you'd find that Glasgow UNIVERSITY does a lot of research into renewable energies.
Not sure I can even begin to see the logic in conflating a university with a city, but of course, it's much easier to simplify an interpretation in polar terms if it fits your preconceptions, doesn't it?
- Also, oil is mooted as a short-term gap for investment into renewables, which I think was shouted about quite loudly at the time..detritus
- at the time...detritus
- Renewables that are mostly funded by the rest of the UK.sem
- And i think you'll find Oil was mentioned a lot more than renewable energy in the campaign.sem
- I think if you dug deeper, you'll find there was a FUCKLOAD of talk of renewables. *shrug*detritus
- Obviously oil's a loud debate because it's contentious, since nu Labour re-drew the rights lines out in the North sea.detritus
- Nathan_Adams0
^
I agree. Sydney & Melbourne are pretty large already, but there's plenty of opportunity for the second tier cities (Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide), and third tier (Hobart, Darwin, Canberra, Geelong, Newcastle, etc.) to increase density. Won't happen while the general population regard urban sprawl and massive blocks as their birth right and the "Australian way", while apartments are looked down as dog boxes and future slums (which is ridiculous when the majority of apartment developments here are inner city and $$$).
- UK has 3 times the population of Australia which just puzzles me when you see the size difference.sem
- There's got to be a reason to move there. What jobs? It can't all be mines and cafes, although that's where it's heading.MrT
- heading.MrT
- Well i'm just going to go out on a limb here and assume a place that size could provide more jobs than the UKsem
- If they at least doubled in population construction alone could boom no? cities could double in size etcsem
- Obviously building an economy is not that straight forward but still, the growth could be amazing for Oz.sem
- Wolfboy0
@kingkong
The boat has sailed on rational balanced thinking on this issue.
I was talking to a Scottish Yes voting friend of mine and I asked him how he would feel if they lost the vote and he found himself a minority in the country that he tells me he and his fellow Yes voters truly represent - the peoples voice! I pointed out that the polls are showing the race roughly at 50/50% and if anything it's a couple of % towards the No vote.
He got angry, wouldn't answer the question, told me the REAL figure stands at something like 70/30% yes and of course blaimed media bias and bullying.
Admittedly that's a pretty extreme example of head in the sand, but my point is I think the vote is so close to happening now that anyone who has decided is not going to change their minds now. They're just too emotionally charged.
Which means it's all coming down to the undecideds.
I really hope that means a No vote, after all if the Yes campaign hasn't provided the answers they need to make such a huge step thus far, so they aren't going to provide them in the next couple of days. Even today Salmond is still just crapping on like a broken record about scaremongering and bullying instead of the facts the undecided surely desire.
- I read this with a Scottish accentrobotron3k
- What have the conservative party promised? Another £15billion worth of austerity cuts while we take on more debt? Are No going to mention that one?rosko_picachu
- ...debt. Or increased cost to buy drugs in bulk via privatizationrosko_picachu
- detritus0
Interesting that it's you that keeps bumping this thread, sem.
And you wonder why Northerners want rid of ever-scathing Southerners.
Note I didn't say 'Scots', just Northerners generally.
- Think you'll find I bumped it about 3 times max. The rest was in reply to other peoples posts.sem
- Nice attitude from a northerner that lives down south. Well done there.sem
- detris is a tardyurimon
- I've lived abroad more than I've lived up North and you'll note I said 'Northerners' Not 'we'.detritus
- Thanks, Yurimon - always good to be insulted by a fruitloop moron who can't even spell. Really hurts, that. Ouch!detritus
- So many feels Detritus, wanna get a pint and hug it out?sem
- NonEntity0
@rosko
U'd be a more convincing wannabe cynic if you could at least get a simple eggs is eggs story straight:
http://www.fayyoung.org/sometime…
I think the common sense clue was in the bleedingly obvious question: "how likely is it someone's minder would pelt his own boss?"
Ach! the media, will they ever learn?
To be fair, your untangling of this conspiracy probably still had more truth to it than what Chomsky usually brings to the menu. So, thanks for that, oh wise one.
- babaganush0
The last paragraph if which Alastair darling has promised from a labour standpoint just as much as Alex Salmond - with a far greater ability to elucidate how they may do it. Both the people debating are debating for a better Scotland - not for it to be owned by England
- None of which will achieve it. They're politicians...but u don't see Salmond as the greater of two illsbabaganush
- *Ibabaganush
- detritus0
Sem, people are right/wrong and not admitting as much about facts they don't have a direct handle on, sure. On both sides.
The difference here is you straight up accused someone of going to the trouble of faking footage to support their cause, then going on to proclaim how typical and desperate that was.
The people on YouTube are probably commenting, like me, on the weirdly anachronistic look it had - as much to do with the background decor as the odd soft definition.
You're still going on about it up there in the topmost note here, to chossy, hinting darkly that it's still a bit dodgy.
You've got fuck all to do with this debate, like me, so shut up and reign in your ranting and paranoia, and just let them do what they want - it's not like your efforts are going to convert anyone.
Worse than a Religion thread, this.
- kingkong0
I honestly think that even the Yes bunch hope it isn't a Yes. The sheer scale of what faces them would daunt anyone.
Its amazing that you can basically get to the brink of independence, with no plan, no answers and no clear path to those answers.
Everyone is so emotionally attached to independence to see clearly.
My personal view is that Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland should be independent, but this is the wrong way to approach it imo.
If there was a clear plan, set of answers across all those big things like NATO, EU, currency, Defence, Monarchy etc... then I don't think many would have an issue.
- there seems to be a clear plan in penfold's headmicrokorg
- http://www.myfconlin…microkorg
- I'm sure when the currency agreement is made, things will be a lot easier.rosko_picachu
- chossy0
Don't be scared this is all the stuff they trotted out to try and stop us voting for our own parliament in 1997 I voted for that shit the second the Boothe's opened.
In 1997 they warned us that voting Yes for a Scottish parliament would cost us more...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/specia…In 1997 they warned us that voting Yes for a Scottish Parliament would harm businesses...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/specia…In 1997 they warned us that devolution would impoverish Scotland. One prominent Tory likened a Yes vote to a Scottish Parliament to a 'jobs holocaust...'
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/new…In 1997 they warned us that Scotland with its own parliament would become a 'high-tax ghetto...'
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/new…In 1997 we were warned of the 'frightening financial consequences of devolution...'
http://archive.commercialmotor.c…In 1997 big business and the CBI spoke out against devolution...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/specia…In 1997 they warned that devolution would harm the climate for business in Scotland...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/specia…In 1997 they warned that Devolution would lead to job losses...
http://www.independent.co.uk/new…In 1997 they warned us that devolution would harm fragile rural communities and undermine agriculture...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/specia…In 1997 they warned us that a devolved Scotland would be weaker and suffer from less inward investment...
http://www.theguardian.com/polit…And yes, even in 1997, big business threatened to leave if democracy prevailed...
http://www.independent.co.uk/new…
- kingkong0
"It is true,” writes Torrance, “that most policy areas do not engage Salmond beyond whatever tactical advantage they may offer over his opponents... Indeed, many former aides cannot recall ever having had a policy discussion with their former boss. As a result, Salmond does not appear to have thought very deeply about the fundamental nature of Scottish society, preferring to parrot clichéd lines about the superiority of Scottish education and the untouchability of the NHS.”
From his Biographer, which should worry people but it doesn't.
- bumdrizzle0
sem is clearly an idiot, you are wasting your time detritus.
and I think pitiable and scathing are probably mutually exclusive.
- lol Northerns unite like Voltron to attack the south....while living here.sem
- chossy0
No currency union no debt.
30,000 jobs from trident are you kidding me? I think you should look again at that! most fo those people are not Scottish and do not live in Scotland, those 30,000 jobs will be filled by the 39,000 jobs to be created in the oil sector, http://www.imeche.org/news/engin…
Scarce resources exactly how do you figure that one?
Clair
Clair, the first fixed platform in the west of Shetland area, started producing in 2005. With an estimated eight billion barrels of oil in place, it is the largest oilfield in Europe. The field was discovered in 1977, but it was only with significant advances in technology and innovative engineering that the first phase of development was made possible. Clair Ridge, the £4.5 billion second phase of development, was confirmed in late 2011 and will see two new platforms installed and production starting in 2016. In 2013, a major appraisal drilling programme began to help define a possible third phase of development for Clair.
This is just going to start to produce. LARGEST OIL FIELD IN EUROPE.
This is some more oil which hasn't been touched yet, pretty horrible reading isn;t it regarding the will of the empire to lie to the people os Scotland on that one :'(
http://www.sundaypost.com/news-v…
In regard to your last paragraph CORRECT greed has fucked the UK we had 300 years to get it right and it's not worked, we would like to give it a go ourselves from now I hope we do well.
- The paragraph on clair ridge is taken from the BP site I forgot to link the page.chossy
- http://www.bp.com/en…chossy
- So oil isn't a scarce resource.!?! And again you still owe £109 billion off the bat. What will you barter with if not THAT oilbabaganush
- So it proposes 30,000 jobs of which the profits go straight to Scotland debt free? Come onbabaganush
- chossy0
Also I'd be looking more closely at London's future if I were you.
http://www.euractiv.com/sections…
We don't want to be out of Europe at all but you fools down south voted the UKIP into being our majority representation in the EU and it looks highly likely that you will be voting us out the EU as well.
- Ukip us as much to do with places like Oldham etc. Disillusioned with both Tory and labour governmentsbabaganush
- Anyone. With a tad if I tells hence knows it's wrong but it's a form of extremism. The arguments her e pro yes constantly generalise 'us lot'babaganush
- Generalise 'you lot'. Which sometimes means English, sometimes means Londoners...babaganush
- Still a riveting thread though hehebabaganush
