Scottish independence
- Started
- Last post
- 363 Responses
- i_monk0
It's easy to point out the unknowns to "scare" people into voting No? Was it difficult to promise them everything if they vote Yes? It seemed like the Yes campaign relied almost entirely on things they couldn't deliver for one reason or another.
- rosko_picachu0
Check this out if you're in the uk:
- kingkong0
- You know they are clutching at straws when they have to stick Barrhead Travel on the list.rosko_picachu
- lols at roskohans_glib
- chossy0
Yes babaganush pay 109 Bn or defer the debt. that's the answer. In any case our finances will be in better shape than the rest of the UK. This is the answer to your question. I provided you with a document which you can read at your leisure.
Ask me another question, really I am not a man who gets angry or upset I am incredibly pragmatic.
- sem0
^ My Grandad was born and raised in Liverpool but moved to London for work and after a good few years went back to see family and got into a big fight in a pub for sounding southern.
The hate towards the south is bread into some people much like religion or hate for a towns rival football team etc. The whole US vs THEM mentality gets society nowhere. Its such a backward and dated way of thinking, people really need to evolve from it and focus on more important things.
- chossy0
Scotland without oil is just a little bit poorer than the rest of the UK but with oil we are significantly better off. We will pay our debt far more readily than the rest of the UK will of this be assured.
- sem0
Also on the "everyone has a right to hate London" argument. Just a little something in the Financial Times some might want to read.
"On productivity, the capital is unchallenged. Official figures show inner London productivity levels – as measured by GVA per hour worked – at 44 per cent above the UK average in 2011"
- do you define society by productivity?lowimpakt
- The money men do, which is why they're so keen to encourage economic migration, at the expense of locals.detritus
- ..locals.detritus
- Not just productivity no, but feel free to read the rest of the article. I'm saying LDN earns its keep and above.sem
- i can't get past the paywall but I know GVA her head stats have been criticised in the past. They include people that commute to regionslowimpakt
- http://www.parliamen…lowimpakt
- rosko_picachu0
The only people creating currency uncertainty is the No campaign.
Look at the state of the No campaign, clearly being run by corporations.
The problem with your system is it's propped up by Scottish resources, we subsidize the whole system and the Bank of England knows this.
The austerity measures haven't worked and they are trying to rig them to seem otherwise. So therefore when we are no longer their
to make the economics seem rosy, everything will come out.It will no longer be so easy to hide things from the public.
This is why we have all this crap that Waitrose and John Lewis are leaving. This is why we have inaccurate polls, created by newspapers who all support the No campaign.
We'll see in a couple of days, just how accurate they've been.
From where i'm looking, bearing in mind i live here, it's an absolute landslide.
It's taken until yesterday for the Labour camp to come round the doors.
I genuinely felt sorry for them, until i realized, after a vote we can still vote labour if we want to. That's what i said to them and they knew i was right. They looked down trodden, they know it's over.
THis is why they've been told to ramp up the emotion to an emotionless campaign from one side, and a side absolutely driven by emotion, facts and a passion to do this.
If you live down south, in London - you've missed the whole thing. You hide behind media messages of fear and corporate guidance and this is how you have lost your voice.
We have lost ours too and this is about claiming it back. It's about keeping the educated population in Scotland. More than anything it comes from your lot failing to put any kind of deal on the table regarding the oil wealth.
- ‘clearly being run by corporations‘ you do realise that a lot of Scot don't, by their own volition, want independence?detritus
- independence? They've not been coralled, nor lied-to, they just don't feel like it's what they want for their country?detritus
- ps. "Your lot" is polarising bullshit, as if a lot of the people on the ground here want the politics here eitherdetritus
- with attitudes like that you run the risk of poisoning memory and being loathed by Englanders for generationsdetritus
- hans_glib0
shut it with the north-south argument stupidity. we're all on the same island, lets just agree to differ and get on with it
- babaganush0
@rosko
Couldn't comment on the Scottish defence budget but ultimately the other savings aren't riches. Scotland cannot at 'hardball' and walk away from IOU's with no recourse. This is a top line clearly reiterated by financial institutions and trading businesses/country of any statute. Who do you think you will trade with...again you seem to be confusing anti- British politics with global trade ethics...it will go down as well with any trading country if any stature as it will with UK treasury. I.e not a trusted trading country. Good luck with those tactics
- lowimpakt0
apparently Cardiff is the best place to live in the UK anyway.
"Britain's best cities revealed... and the winner might surprise you" (Sept 2014)
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-…Cardiff 'best city' in UK for young adults says poll (Oct 2013)
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales…- Says at the top "thanks to low cost of living" further proving my point for Bumdizzle.sem
- chossy0
In 2012/13, Scotland’s onshore-only GDP per capita was £20,571, compared to £20,873 average for the UK.
I am Not worried about the debt.
- Generated by trading with whom? Your whole circumstance will change. You can't use this as a barometer for future tradebabaganush
- babaganush0
^
So in one sentence you have both alluded to deferring a debt over a decade or two whilst highlighting an option which will mean no one will trade with you due to the volatile attitude to repaying debt
- lowimpakt0
"Scottish independence: Ireland since 1919 is a lesson for Scotland in what a Yes vote means.
..... The Irish had fought for their independence in 1916 and been mightily and brutally crushed by the British army. Then they bravely fought the British all over again. Ireland’s 800-year history of English occupation puts Scotland’s misery into the shade. We won’t mention the Troubles."
- babaganush0
Rosko you never said a truer word. By all means if a yes vote goes through it will be based on 'emotion'. In not so many words Salmond says this.
BTW it isn't my 'system' it is yours too until Thursday at worst. Again your argument pools everyone into Tory loving zealots who live in ivory towers. Your last post was based ion a woefully inaccurate misunderstanding if figures that you used to endorse Scittish resources. So if 'everyone knows this' it's quite clearly coming from ignorance and misunderstanding if the facts.
Again, they are not ' my lot ' your mentality that essentially is made up to be secular and Scottish no matter what. It's the fact that millions of others (ignore this bit as you constantly have) that aren't old Etonians, don't support the current UK parliament, will see their hand weakened by devolution.
I feel sorry for anyone voting emotionally because it is the next generations that will have to deal with the staggering realisation that it was ONLY blind emotion that is governing yes sentiment. Nothing wrong with passion - it should be the bedrock of everything...yet I don't think you would be too complimentary to passionate politicians that yield absolutely no results - oh hang on scratch that last bit.
- babaganush0
- <made.com epic fail...babaganush
- lol someone is fired.sem
- rosko_picachu0
The truth is the Dark Propaganda and Playback counter intelligence machine rolled into overdrive with every kind of trick you could think of. A bunch of scared up pensioners who were phoned up and told they'd lose their pensions swung the vote.
That's pretty shocking behaviour. Let's go scare some pensioners. This is the mindset of what we've been up against.Church of Scotland got to the pensioners as well. The Orange Order played their part, helped by laws to attempt to introduce anti sectarianism and HMRC almost putting Rangers out of business. Orange lodge teamed up with right wing groups from northern ireland and UKIP.
I'd love to find out how much money it would cost to rig the daily news in such a way, but a lot comes down to tax breaks and London based legalized money laundering systems. Ahem, the license fee, which is often threatened.
All it really highlighted was just how seemingly easy it was to mis-guide the public with lies and intimidation.
It still came down to just 5% and a million people not voting, so when you say all of Scotland, you'd have to also factor in under the age of 55, Yes won and they'll be the future voters, whereas the no voters will die off by the time the next one rolls along.
English people seem to take it personally that their ownership of Scotland has been called into question and it's gonna be called into question in a remarkable way at the next election.
Lib. Dem. Conference had like five people at it. Public opinion for Labour and Conservative votes is only gonna diminish even more.
At the next election you'll see exactly how Scotland would have voted without the lies having such a big impact. People will be free to vote without such an end of the world scenario thrown at them for no reason other than it was an end of the world scenario for England.
That was what was at stake - England, not Scotland. Financial freedom for corporations. Not pensions and that is the one thing that won this election, that and the sectarian divide of one football club brought to it's knees - which probably equates to easily a following of over a million people.
Of course the counter intelligence people know all this fine well.
It's unimaginable all the things that were setup to make the Yes vote fail, but yet it came mighty close and this is just the beginning really.
- chossy0
Conversely babaganush the rest of the UK can't keep the house we paid the mortgage on. You want to keep sterling fair enough but do understand we will not contribute to it's debts. We would start off with a blank balance sheet propped up by and incredible amount of oil we absolutely would not need to borrow any money. Our oil fund would swell very quickly and we would be set up quite nicely.
Norway in 24 years built up around 1trn us dollars of a n oil fund, our oil will run out in 50 + years I'm not sure why this is a burden. Especially if we didn't take on any UK debt. Scotland oil makes up 15% of it's GDP and Norways oil makes up 30% of it's GDP.