Scottish independence
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- rosko_picachu0
Like i said, selling the gold devalues the pound, i believe it was sold to buy Yen tradeables. Gives you an idea of what currencies will determine fiscal policy and interest rates in the future. Might not be the pound, especially if it's not underpinned by North Sea Oil.
Another thing is the west coast of Scotland. I've got really good friends from Islay off the west coast. Last time i met up i was getting told about their being a lot of oil and gas on the west coast as well.People in Islay tend to be well connected, so like i say, i kind of trust that judgement that it's possible more oil will be found around Arran and in the Firth of Clyde. Geological surveys have been done and BP were pretty sure there is stuff down their. So we'll see.
So far only 20 exploration wells have been drilled and the word is their is oil and gas all over the place up here. Faslane has really put that on the back burner. But if you think about 3,000 exploration wells in the North Sea versus 20 on the west coast their's a very high chance it's out their and the technology might just be able to get at it.
I know that somewhere between 30-35,000 jobs are gonna become available and various friends have all been rushing to go and get their certificates. So obviously things are happening.
In terms of politicians, well there are people who would make excellent politicians and probably never looked at it as a career path before. They've come from really good backgrounds in terms of education and like i said, have the personality to handle themselves as politicians. I just hope they noticed. Maybe when it's all finished it might be something they want to pursue.
But you would be amazed. People who i'd have down as being definite no voters come up and are turned and not because they read the white paper, but because they went straight to the economists talking about it everyday on Twitter.
For the first time, we've had enough time and like i said the main drivers are people working in things like I.T sector, developing systems in Abu Dhabi and places like that. Not dafties.
If anything it's the dafties on TV voting no who look incredibly stupid. Like the politician who got egged last week by his own security guard who ran off but was caught on film. Media reports it was Yes voters.
Latest one today seems to be about the supermarkets leaving and thats been completely laughed at.
Every time the lies come up, they get debunked very quickly and more people lose the trust.
Other one today i saw was the government lobbying other countries to speak out against independence and they have a whole department to make sure it's worded the right way. Russia. Can you believe that. At the same time they are dealing out sanctions to Russia, they are asking Putin to speak out.
Half the stuff you couldn't make up. Like the BBC, they get £200-250 million from Scotland via the license fee, so that gives you an idea of how impartial they are. When you know how the media works having been inside it, it doesn't come as a surprsie when i switch on the news for the first time in months and i'm thinking, "This is why i don't watch the news anymore." It's depressing and the level of scaremongering is phenomenal, and it's all scheduled in a very strange way.
I don't know if you saw the news last night, but goes along the lines of speak to one person in Dundee, who votes Yes and then go hit the old demographic in the borders who are obviously gonna be in a difficult position. They think their pensions are gonna disappear over night when they aren't. Besides the 1% who run the pension schemes all live in the south of England. But somehow they are mis-informed. Then it's over to the financila analyst who's ready to blow out his cheeks and be like, "Well, it's been a bad day on the stock market." Then it's cheery for a split secong with the royal baby, before jumping into the ISIS thing and a reporter who looks quite excited about what really is a bleak situation.
This is how you report the news you see and don't report the real news. If they wanted to debate it properly they would be talking about it for half an hour on the news, but soundbites are little chunks of information more easily remembered.
- Wolfboy0
If you are correct about all this Rosko then good luck to Scotland and the tidal wave of awesome that is coming when you're no longer held back by the English who apparently wouldn't want any of this for the UK.
And it's great that you have worked with the guys who will change everything for the better so have the inside line on the future; but I'm gonna suggest that most people still get their information from traditional outlets. Most people still turn on the TV, read the papers and listen to the figureheads feeding them their particular line of bullshit. In this case Alex Salmond and the Yes campaign he is spearheading. So I think it might be touch presumptuous to say that nobody is interested in him.
I seriously hope you are right though and if this new ecologically sound, fair and prosperous country emerges I might even emigrate myself.
In the end though, I think you'll have a very similar government, peopled by self-serving arseholes (they're certainly operating up there right now), that is only as progressive as every other government. Despite what is being said in blogs at the moment, as soon as they are into the political cycle they will not be thinking much further than the next election and how to keep/take power. And that requires short term view, lowest common denominator politics.
- rosko_picachu0
Man you're taking it for granted we just woke up one morning, watched Braveheart and thought, "Freeeeedom!"
It's genuinely not like that. I tend to trust people i used to work with who run things like Bellacaledonia.com, The Fife Diet and various other things.
It's really a question about sustainability, cutting costs on things like not having to pay for Westminster and weapons of mass destruction that are outdated and will most probably never be used.
I don't really hear politicians from governments i trust, but i do trust people i know, people i used to work with.
This is essentially a debate that's been blogged about for the past three years online and now guys down south want to just take it for granted it's complete dafties that are in control pushing the debate.
www.bellacaledonia.com are out interviewing people like Noam Chomsky, meanwhile you guys are subjected to whoever it is your getting your information from.
What's amazing is, i used to work with coders, who you wouldn't really get a grasp of how intelligent they actually were until maybe at some big pressure event and they had to speak publicly. Such people are potentially wasted in that job and these are the people who've been quietly fighting the corner for Yes.
I used to live in England, worked at Amaze, studied in Newcastle and i absolutely love England. I just don't like the kind of arrogant nature of being screwed over. That is really a question of trust and people are voting for whoever they trust, versus people they don't trust.
You see with this thing called the internet, we have access to people who are passing us the right information. Nobody is really interested in Alex Salmond, because after the vote goes through he's going to retire.
I just bet a lot of the people who've been involved get a bug for politics and this can be a very good thing.
- babaganush0
@ rosko is planning on living in Brigadoon
- hans_glib0
hmm i don't think any of our current politicos have the nous to cheat the population. more that they're too self serving and/or incompetent to do anything useful. that's not to say the faeries in scotland will do better, as i think they're probably worse.
i like the concept he was selling, though i'm dubious of his ability to deliver said change.
and no i don't want the scots to say yes. i want them to grow up and stop wingeing.
- sem0
This is the thing, most English WANT Scotland to vote yes.
They want Scotland to be responsible and they wish them the best of luck. Its just a little insulting to hear people like "We have a magic plan, and its defo going to work" like there is some magical economy cheat on a game controller that the UK's politicians (despite being highly experienced) just didn't know about or want to do for shits and giggles because they have all enjoyed seeing others suffer for personal gain.
Some yes, but all? every past Government and Member? mate.
- hans_glib0
rosko_picachu - you sound like you've been listening to Tony Banks. I met him at a debate held down here in evil London for expat Scots. He said pretty much the same thing - government is broken and it needs fixing. WHich is why they want independence to build a new model for the rest of the UK and world to follow. As an armchair anarchist and general loather of our timewasting rulers I was sold.
Though I do wonder if it isn't all pie in the sky.
- rosko_picachu0
This is daft right, but look at how nervous everyone is about disposing nuclear waste in England and how perfectly acceptable it would be to dump it in Scotland.
- Wolfboy0
@Rosko
I think the comparison between Farage and Salmond is a useful one. Maybe not on their politics, but in the manner they present their arguments in a vague and shouty manner but become incredibly evasive when it comes to facts. As previously discussed they appeal to people making a decision based on emotion rather than rational thinking. Shouty politics with paper thin ideas on how to achieve them, I think the debates showed that. That second one that he apparently 'won' was all about the passion he clearly had for Scotland but the lack of answers to the big questions seemed to be a side note. Very similar to Farage talking about Europe.
What I would say is that Salmond does not represent anything different when it comes to politics, you can slag off Westminster and the members down here but it is just ridiculous to say you'd get anything different in terms of the type of people running an independent Scotland.
Again it's talk of this Scottish utopia that is somehow inevitable. Why should it be when you have the same scum bag MPs that we all have. As previously mentioned they are already selling off the NHS up there to foreign private health companies.
And I say again, the one thing that will definitely happen in time is the rise of the traditional Scottish right through the natural balance of party politics. It is only held down now through a hatred of the English Tory party (no issue with that by the way). With independence there will be no reason for that political base not to start voting for the new Scottish right leaning parties. And at the end of the day a right wing scum bag is the same in a kilt or in trousers.
- detritus0
I like threads like that draw people out of the woodwork!
- Yeah I didn't think there were as many of us in the UK on here.sem
- If it's a Yes vote we should have a QBN drinks on the new border. We could get a long trestle table and it'll be like that room that crosses the N&S Korean borders.Wolfboy
- That crosses the N&S Korean borders.Wolfboy
- We can get drinks and all accept that regardless of this outcome, religion will fuck us all in time :Psem
- rosko_picachu0
BTW since when was a right wing politician, wanting away from the EU, even comparable to Alex Salmond? Alex Salmond has been kept out of the English public domain as much as possible. I'm sure he's just an easy target for the daily mail brigade, to finely time some sound bites to noise up the people such things are aimed at.
Truth is Alex Salmond is just a normal guy. Quite down to Earth, maybe Farage is, but there policies are light years apart. Sorry man, i'm all for Independence and it's not so we can shut up the borders or abandon the debt. if you paid attention to the thing for longer than two months, you'd notice one side's argument involves crashing the system, whereas our doesn't.
if you're looking for someone to blame go blame David Cameron.
Last night on the news, our glorious leader was told by his aide, that scotland were here. All it was, was a TV camera. He looked terrified because he had no script. That is what you have right now.
Go watch the news and you'll see what's going on in the world.
Go look at the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, to secure a gas pipeline from Uzbekistan. Politicians sitting on Enron'sboard, doing deals starting wars. Latest ones are what, Russia and ISIS.
Don't want to be associated with wars where the majority of people who get killed are civilians. How much money was wasted on those?
How many breaches of the Geneva conventions? What about one minute the EU not being important and then scurrying off to the EU to get permission to put sanctions on Russia? Who takes the hit on that, the Russian people. This is international policy.
Well get ready for a change big time. All that stuff does not interest an independent scotland one iota. See all these big jobs in London for filling in forms and the like. How long before those jobs are all automated? The simple building blocks for life are easy enough to get. Like do you know how much food is exported from Scotland and how much is imported? It's ridiculous. We export Aberdeen Angus for happy meals. Things need to change. Hopefully this is the start of something good for the whole of the UK. Why because people in England will begin to get the things Scotland has been introducing.
England don't like Scotland's approach to joined up thinking, well start copying us before we to no doubt get swallowed up by capitalism
- < Assumes only Dail Mail readers dislike Salmond. Says a lot.sem
- I like how your points always sway WAYYYY off into other factors such as Iraq etc lolsem
- As if no Scotts ever voted for a Government that pushed us into a war the people didn't want. Sure mate, sure.sem
- The SNP are delusional racist fantasists. Salmond is, however, quite smart and exploiting these bozos.comicsans
- sem0
England for the Women.
Scotland for the views.Great things can happen when we work together ;)
- Fuck that, I had the horn constantly when I was in Edinburgh. Next time, I'm taking the GF.detritus
- So. Many. Gorgeous. Girls.detritus
- Facts > Opinion again. Supermodel's from UK vs Scotland. :Psem
- beauty is necessarily opinion, being as it is in the eye of the beholder! Still, I stand by it as fact. :)detritus
- Detritus, all the hot girls were probably all the tourists that hit the town through the summermicrokorg
- robotron3k0
Aye.
- lowimpakt0
whatever happens, the highlands and islands will still be one of the most beautiful places on the planet.
- sem0
^ Can we please not ignore the HS2 rail which is being built and has been a huge pain in the arse for some in London to help bring those in the north the chance to commute into London for work etc?
I mean, they could do more yes. But they are not ignoring the North.
http://www.hs2.org.uk/interactiv…- Why don't they work in the North? invest where they are? Instead of bringing them to London.chossy
- rosko_picachu0
I think it went along the lines of, "Shoot, where can we dispose of these chemical weapons without it impacting the natural heritage of England's coastline and to cover it up, because their would be hell to pay if the English population didn't like that, whereas Ireland and Scotland can just be ignored, probably because the population isn't big enough or perhaps because it never had a voice. Like i said, out of sight out of mind. Short term policy, long term effect. Even last year plans were being discussed to dispose of England's nuclear waste in Scotland before a referendum vote. This is how unimportant Scotland's natural heritage is to some daft politicians.
- Wolfboy0
@detritus
Did you see the series of programmes made by Evan Davis on the Beeb? It was called mind the gap:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/…
I thought it was quite even handed and had some great stuff about the potential in the north around the area I originally come from. Also there is a pile of bullshit from Boris Johnson who really shows why it's easy for the rest of the country to dislike the politician and London.
I think the idea of faster trains is a great one, but the current London to the M62 corridor is only about 2.5 to 3 hours right now which is hardly dawdling. So maybe a better project would be a cross country rail link across the north. Superfast Leeds to Manchester to Liverpool and a branch off to the North East too. There would be a great power base created there.
There is a great bit about the history of St Pancras station in London. It was actually a 'fuck you' from the idustrial north to the south. It was built with northern textiles money as a show of strength. While all the other stations were utilitarian buildings, visitors to that station saw a magnificent building housing the train lines that took you to the powerhouse north.
'KING IN THE NORTH!!!' and all that.
- i_monk0
What will happen to the Union Jack if Scotland votes for independence?
- kingkong0
Being from the Lake district I hear everyone here, even though I've lived in and around london for 20 years now.
Truth is through Mr Salmond has played a blinder. London centricity affects England, it doesn't affect Scotland. They can vary income tax, their NHS is independent, their universities are free etc...
He's made huge political capital out of 'them down there' stealing our money and resources. Truth is that's not the case. Scotland gets slightly more than it raises and if you're being kind it spends what it raises.
But the idea that they will be better of financially when independent is ludicrous. Beyond ludicrous, it's school boy fantasies.
If he just came out and said this is about emotive nationalism not rational economics I'd be fine with it, truth is he's just lying and praying on the all to well trodden facist path of everything being someone else fault.
Him and Farage should get a room.
- sem0
@rosko_picachu
You talk about waste dumping as if local politicians to the area played no part. I am fully aware that our Government do messed up shit, of corse. Its the fact that Scotland seems to have this idea that their new Government won't do the same. Somehow they will magically dispose of their waste by letting the fairies take it away to another universe.