wordpress pricing
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- MrAbominable
i have a client that has requested a bid on a wordpress site, from template, and another client project that could fit a wordpress portfolio well. i've done a little personal wordpress work in the past but haven't had to bid it out yet.
my questions for you wordpress folks is how do you bill for wp work that involves shopping for templates and adjusting them? hourly v flat fee? less than programming from stock or more for having to wrestle existing code?
typically with the branding and identity work i do, i bill out flat fee. but i'm on the front end of dealing with somebody else's WP issues and the water is murky.
any help or pointing me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. yes, i know there's a general disdain of wp on qbn so i'm bracing for the commentary; but i also know that there's a lot of you that HAVE to interact with it.
- MrAbominable0
i should maybe add that i'm in the US. and that i did check the threads here back 4 years and didn't see anything relevant to my question.
- monNom0
Hourly if you can get it, but most will want a sense of the final cost. Probably more than programming from stock due to the learning curve of someone else's labyrinthine code.
- hereswhatidid0
I would also include time needed to find a decent template. And by decent I mean how it's coded as well as how it looks.
- dbloc0
how long will it take you?
- MrAbominable0
dbloc, more than i can reasonably bill for. stumbling around it will invariably cost me to some degree. what are reasonable hourly rates for wp dev/design in the states? ...and then, what are reasonable flat fees for small companies with a few pages and some manner of portfolio... 1-3k, 3-5k, 5-7k?
say it only takes me 20 hours hammer it out*. unlikely, but maybe i get a good template and can strip out what i don't like and establish a color palette easily, do i bill it at $50hr/1k? That seems way too little.
[* likely it's going to take me 3x longer than that as i'm not a wizard at the format. illustrated here but invoking "wizard" and "format" to describe a wp gig.]
- if you think it's going to take you 20hrs, charge for 30. Always add a little padding for research.dbloc
- I personally charge between 50-65/hr but I always add some padding on the hours. You don't usually realize how long research actually takes.dbloc
- I don;t really have a standard rate. I look at every job separately.dbloc
- thanks so much for the great feedback! Helps a lot.
MrAbominable
- SigDesign0
I'd charge hourly... but if you're not sure how to wrangle WP templates at this point, then you should probably work with a developer friend (if you have one).
- SigDesign0
Also, pre-designed WP templates are usually terrible... they're usually pretty clunky and inefficient. There are some nice simple ones, but in general I feel like if a designer client wants a template, they should head over to Squarespace.
- < thanks.MrAbominable
- Squarespace also has full dev options now if you want to tweak anythingSigDesign
- sem0
You can get some really nice themes for WP nowadays and just edit the code, layout, backend to suit what they need. But as mentioned, add time to find, learn and test those.
Rarely will you get one where the backend is terrible, but you sometimes get issues with things not working with updated plugins etc so if possible give yourself enough time for those kind of issues.
In terms of adapting it for what your client wants, you're going to need some understanding of code. FireBug extention/plugin for Firefox can help lots with finding what needs editing etc.
Most importantly though, get yourself a decent terms and conditions in your emails before taking on the work. Stating that design does not include uploading all content etc unless billed for. That future issues/bugs caused by manual updates to wordpress etc can be fixed for a rate etc.
I've been caught out a few times where you'll forget to leave out t&c's, people moaning that things don't work when they have done updates etc. Its not fun for anyone.
- excellent notes, Sem. Plus, people always seem to forget terms so the more ironclad the better.MrAbominable
- boobs0
I would include writing, copyediting, and uploading all the content that will be in the site at launch. If you need a few photos, put in a few stock images, or maybe even take a few pictures yourself. Put in the Google analytics code, set up their analytics dashboard, train one of their geezers to add content and check the analytics, etc., etc. Find more services you can provide to them on the project, so that you can charge more.
Generate a long detailed list of all the stuff you're going to do for them. And ask for about $8000. It takes you a full month to do it, and you get paid what you're worth, and they have a great site.
And if they balk at the price, say, "well, I could cut out some of these items..." Then whittle it down so you're hardly doing anything at all on the project but you're still getting paid $5000.
- You know people that would pay $8000 for a template??formed
- People do it all the time. A template != a website. They take almost as much work as a site from scratch. Sometimes more.monNom
- ....sometimes more.monNom
- excellent points to add to my checklist. thanks, boobs!MrAbominable
- BattleAxe0
just shoot it straight with the client , everything you do is billable
research , analyzing code , testing,
tell the client what they are paying , flat fees are murky without the hour estimate , and you will eat hours that way and next thing you know you made minimum wage on the project .
always estimate the hours to the client and yes PAD , it gives a sense of deadline , but be upfront what you are billing , if you are doing work towards there project why are you not billing it, or padding another area?
to answer the above question would some one pay $8000 for a template , yes they would and I know plenty who have
but they did not pay just for the template ,
Templates are out of the box solutions with 0 content and no original art work
just cause you use a template does not mean you did not modify it to meet the company's need .
I have estimated WP projects at over 120 over and that is using a template , now for someone to pay around $8K that would be a project of about 150 hours (about 3.5 weeks) at around $45-50 dollars an hour very reasonable
- 120 hoursBattleAxe
- jesus - can you introduce me to some of your clients please?fadein11
- same! how you get 8k clients?!sem
- thanks for clarifying the 120. i was going to ask. :)MrAbominable
- MrAbominable0
first, thank you all for the considered responses. it's helping me frame the project better. a lot.
second, forward compatibility and updates is brought up a lot. are there best practices to steer away from the armaggedon of updating wp from version to version? what is the expected life span of wp site?
- d_rek0
1. buy WP theme for $50
2. slightly modify and add client logo
3. charge $2000
4. profit
- breadlegz0
My advice would not be to charge hourly. It's meaningless to a decent client how long you take, they should just want the job done.
- i tend to agree with this. i bill by the project elsewhere also. hourly leads to clockwatching.MrAbominable
- if you do this, pad the daylights out of it or you'll find yourself working for minimum wage by the end of the project.hereswhatidid
- Not if you price it correctly and give yourself a load of breathing space.breadlegz
- nocomply0
I have always billed hourly in the past, however I'm working on changing my business model a bit to break away from that.
I do a ton of WordPress work, and working with other peoples' themes has always been a headache for me, no matter how well they're built. There's a lot of time spent learning the inner-workings of someone else's code.
Like everyone else has said, you gotta pad your bid to give you some breathing space.
It's hard when a client hears that a few "simple changes" to a "ready to go" theme is going to cost so much, and that's the reason why I don't get much work in this department. Most of the clients I encounter who are looking to go this route balk when they get a quote from me.
Most of my WordPress time is spent developing custom themes, and that's what I prefer anyway so it works out.
- nocomply, you build themes on hourly or bid for the build based on your hourly?MrAbominable
- Previously it was all hourly, but I provided a detailed estimate outlining all hours before proceeding.nocomply
- However I'm trying to move to a flat rate for projects in which the scope of work is clearly defined upfront.nocomply
- ohhhhhsnap0
I now have this same question myself. Great advice in this thread.
Here's the question I've got though:
I'm splitting the gig with a colleague, I will focus on the visuals and he will make it work in WP...How should I split up compensation, down the middle? Client has less than 15K for a site overhaul (in their budget)
- monNom0
You should bill hourly because you are providing a service. The website is not a product, it's a result of your services.
You should estimate the number of hours to them so they know roughly what to expect and what they can fit within their budget. You should be honest and up-front the whole way through on where you are at with their budget, how realistic 'nice to have' features might be given over-runs earlier in the project, or if something comes in under-budget, pass those savings on!
By doing it this way, you set a precedent that your time is billable, that their website is less of a "thing" that you buy, and more the result of efforts and time, and if things don't go exactly to plan, or if the scope changes, there's an easy feedback mechanism to get you paid for your time.
- I like this a lot.
ohhhhhsnap - that shit is good ... :)odobo
- I like this a lot.
- vaxorcist0
RE: Flat rate and templates....
1. people may think you're just "tweeking a template" but you';re really providing a "total identity platform for communication with customers" or something like that...
2. Beware "done" and "flat rate" -->>>>>The most important thing to remember is that, according to many clients, its "done" when they are finally satisfied that "it" is "done".... and be aware that "it" may be subject to change, and that "done" means they've finally stopped changing things, or asking you to change things...
3. unless it is REALLY predictable and small, and/or you've worked for them in the past, hourly is much better than "flat rate", but of course, clients want a budget number, so monNom is right, it is great to be clear and willing to pass some savings on if it is "under budget", as you'll probably get more work that way anyway....
- "done" means they've finally stopped changing things, or asking you to change things... <ohhhhhsnap
- txohhhhhsnap
- utopian0
Just have one of these dudes at Microlancer do it ($99-$400)
http://www.microlancer.comAnd then charge your client 3-4k
- bklyndroobeki0
What should be the rate for someone with 3 years worth of experience in WP? Not a beginner, and not an expert, but that area in the middle.
- MrAbominable0
to come full circle, i just finished the job and and sent the final to the client. she'll get back to me with some notes surely.
i'll take in about $10k. I'm not a wp guy so it took me a month to do. including waiting on open tech tickets to the template developer. Wrangled with a few pieces of css to get things to sit the way i wanted.
and the kicker is that i'm going to use the same template for my own portfolio so i got paid to figure out a much of stuff.
- How many hours did it take you?ohhhhhsnap
- i'm not a good barometer of time = pay in this as i knew there would be a big curve for me.MrAbominable
- maybe a week of solid work but a lton of waiting for Support to get back to me on questions.MrAbominable