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Yeah, its been interesting reading the different responses from people on QBN.
I mean this was a good last sentences from your reply " When I advise against doing something, its for a good reason, I'm trying to make this a really great site tailored to your requirements."
Although the rest sounded like lecturing but at least you are honest in saying that what you are doing is for the better of the design and not to be pesky or anything.
Thanks for sharing qTime
So I had a face to face chat with the client. I explained its more helpful for them to comment on my work then I will revise it, rather than them trying to do it themselves in PhotoShop.
They accepted this and are happy to move on with the project.
Sometimes it pays to be a bit more upfront with issues rather than being vague and apologetic.
do it like this. be tactful. it tends to get a better response. provide options and stay open.
Thanks for your input on the last revisions I sent through. I'd be happy to send over a couple of options based on your feedback and we can go from there as far as which direction is best. Although, I do prefer the original because I think it has a cleaner aesthetic and not as distracting. By any means, I'll play with it a bit more and have a couple of final options to you by the end of the week.
As far as sending over fonts, is it possible to get some feedback on what you'd like to see happen with the logo? I'd prefer to see the design through and be sure that everyone is happy. But of course, if you'd like to take the job from here, let me know and I can package everything up for you and send it over.
Thanks again - have a nice weekend!
"Is there a kind way of telling them to stop thinking they can bloody design just because they have Photoshop"
This is why you should use Fireworks
Wow at above what you wrote to the client.
It is blunt and doesn't in any way attempt to explain WHY it wasn't right, WHY it slowed the project down, WHY their name suggestion was wrong, WHY it added confusion and HOW you can make them a really great site if they trust you.
If you had went into more details about WHY and HOW then it would probably sink in easier with the client and they would understand where you are coming from.
Another way to communicate things to a client that they don't understand is to put it into their terms or something they know about.
Client: "The customer is the director of the movie and has the overall vision of the project, where he employs people to get his ideas to work."
I'd like to see the customer as more of a partner in the 'movie'.
I don't think its a good idea for you send over Photoshop files. Taking the design you did for example, this clearly wasn't right and slowed the project down quite a bit while I put a lot of energy in to trying to make this work. You also have to trust my advice like with the first name (insert stupid name here). This also added extra confusion. When I advise against doing something, its for a good reason, I'm trying to make this a really great site tailored to your requirements."
- so you lectured himmonospaced
- did you really send that, or just contemplating it...bjladams
- Like I said, I don't need the money so we either work together as partners or they find a design slave.qTime
- i wasn't really complimenting you on your bravado...bjladams
- Well you can choose to be a slave or just tell them straight. There is no disrespect. Just sensible advice.qTime
- i agree with that- but the note comes of showing a bit of a lack of tact.. not matter how right you are, that can hurt you down the road.bjladams
- the road. but then again, i don't know all the ins and outs of this situation.bjladams
- A bit blunt I admit, but sometimes its best to tell it straight.qTime
- 'blunt' wasn't what came to mind.bjladams
- I didn't actually write (insert stupid name here) btwqTime
This thread is as depressing as KONY 2012!!!
It just shows the harass reality of our profession.
You certainly shouldn't supply the typeface, he / she should have to buy it. Any decent client would approve of your choice and your respect of the industry.
Sure I'll let you know. Its a difficult one.
I should have made it clear with the client at the start of the process how I work and what is expected from both parties.
It would have saved a whole lot of trouble.
Did they buy photoshop or warez it?
Just report em for warez, problem solved.
qTime, hope you can solve this shenanigan with your client.
I dont want to be sneaky but, would you mind giving us an update once this is over?
I've had bad clients but i've never experienced such thing as yours, and I'd appreciate to know how you solved it just in case something similar happens to me.
bjladams, I think that just about sums it up.
As I don't need the money from this job I'll probably stop working for them and give my reasons as professionally as possible.
that's good @morning_star - we've got 2 kinds of clients:
1: those that pay us to implement their ideas
2: those that pay us to our ideas
in the beginning, we had more of the first kind, now we've got more of the second.
i've got 10 people depending on me for food, so as long as the client is in the group that starts with "those that pay us to..." i'm good.
- should say "2: those that pay us to implement our ideas"bjladams
- or "2: those that pay us for our ideas."k_temp
- Well said bj. You have clients who use you as an artworkwer and those who use you as a professional designer.Hombre_Lobo
- < Excellent perspectivee-wo
- 10 people? randy bastard!23kon
- or did you mean employees and not kids lol23kon
- haha - 3 families, but i don't employ the kids!bjladams
1. A designer is not an artist.
2. The man that pays, calls the shots.
The sad truth is that everyone assumes that they can add positive input to design projects. For some reason, it's held more in the light of redecorating a room—"Yes, I understand your recommendation, but I would prefer a floral print rather than leather."
It drives me crazy sometimes, but navigating it politically is just as much a skill of the position as is an understanding of color palettes or design software. Just this week I had the president of a bank request specific font changes to a project just before it was sent to print. Fortunately, others in the organization were able to convince him that we were being paid to make those decisions for a reason.
In other words, learn to not take it so personally or you are going to develop ulcers.
Obviously its not the end of the world and some times you just have to get on with it. But there is no harm in wanting to do a good job and having a little self respect.
You know... I take the first line back. It's rarely a 'harsh reality'. A harsh reality would be waking up to fucking bombs going off outside of my window. Or to Joseph Kony abducting my children in the middle of the night.
A designer's reality is rarely ever harsh. A client taking some liberties with your shit? If that's the worse thing that can happen to you, and you are so disillusioned by it, then I fear for your career.