Canada vote 2011
- Started
- Last post
- 341 Responses
- ETM0
- i_monk0
spot13 "This is just income and doesn't account for sales and property tax and everything else we gouged on, so it still is very high"
[citation needed]
And you said it's among the highest in the world, not merely "very" high.
- Ok, this is tax inclusive and has us as #4 in the world: http://en.wikipedia.…spot13
- zarkonite0
i_monk: I'm not sure why you're talking about Rob Ford. I was talking about the federal government... and yes I believe they should make do with what we send them right now and stop handing out candy left and right. If the people want universal healthcare then they'll have to give up something else. I am completely against sending more money up there, $231.4 Billion is enough to run a peaceful country of 34million.
- and from I've heard of Rob Ford he doesn't sound qualified to run a city... I'll keep my Nenshi thank you very much.zarkonite
- i_monk0
^ excellent
zarkonite: I mention Ford because he's a conservative making the same promises. Putting all your chips on hidden money and phantom "waste" is a mistake. After living through Mike Harris and Ernie Eves and Harper and now Ford, I'm convinced conservatives know less about basic economics than I do, and are completely at odds with typical Canadian values and expectations from government.
- zarkonite0
@i_monk: I'm not sure I can put all those conservatives in the same boat. I'm in Calgary (born and raised in Quebec) and our provincial cons are fighting quite a bit with the Harper gang. I think that there are a lot of people flying under conservative colours that aren't really conservatives but do so because the movement has momentum right now. Hell in Quebec the Liberal government is led by Charest who was the head of the progressive-conservative party for years... and they do act like conservatives! Looking at someone's pedigree says a lot about if they'll achieve what they promise, Ignatieff isn't particularly good at politics but I trust he'll make intelligent decisions if he's given power. That's not to say I'm voting liberal, it's just an example, I'm 110% confused... I thought Layton was great in the debates but his rhetoric is all about providing more to the people... aka raising my taxes.
Maybe if we let Harper win, he'll piss us off so bad with his totalitarian regime we'll vote the conservatives out for another decade =)
- haha I started both replies with I'm not sure... yep, I don't know who to vote for!zarkonite
- eieio0
ETM said NDP = taxes on the other page and zarkonite just reiterated the same point but I want to see where this is substantiated or if its just some sort of NDP prejudice everyone tries to spew... ?
- NDP supports a rollback to pre-harper corporate taxes and a tax credit for small businesses.********
- So more big corp. tax and a return on small business tax?eieio
- I can see the corporate tax thing but ultimatly when they talk about health care and social services its about bifferent budget priorities, spending less on jets and more on the peepseieio
- ... evening the budget out. Spending less on jets etc and more on the peeps not more personal taxeseieio
- i think its a 4K tax credit for every job created by a small business.********
- the thing is, large corporations, the ones that create anchor industries, are the most able to flee high taxes.monNom
- while smaller corporations that might not exist without the larger corp, can't flee high taxes as easily.monNom
- so you raise taxes on large corporations and you lose them, or you raise them on small, and their prices risemonNom
- NDP supports a rollback to pre-harper corporate taxes and a tax credit for small businesses.
- ETM0
NDP = taxes was a generalization based on party philosophy. I don't bother listening to the platforms anymore as we're lucky if 20% comes to be as promised. But NDP is the socialist end of the spectrum and their philosophy is that we help heavily through social programs and eventually, that's going to need more revenue generated once the money saved from the infamous 'planes and prisons' is reallocated.
- ETM0
Speaking of planes, we do need to update our fleet people. We do need to spend some cash on the military now and then. I am not convinced Harper's choice on the planes and the rising cost of them is the answer, or the fact that they are single engine and not well suited for arctic patrol is a good idea.
But we will need something. Read more on the 30 year old CF-18s we have now. Take note on the section 'Upgrades' where our lack of spending to maintain our fleet meant that our avionics were out of date and incompatible with NATO allies in the Gulf War and the Kosovo conflict.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McD…
I don't want to see a lot of our cash going to military, but it's a reality of life and it shouldn't always be the first thing cut.
- i_monk0
^ I don't want a "something is better than nothing" solution.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/t…
OTTAWA — An American military expert says the Tory government's planned purchase of 65 F-35 fighter jets comes with an unrealistically low price tag for a plane that he says will not meet the country's needs.
"You're getting an underperforming airplane for a huge amount of money," said Winslow T. Wheeler, director of the Straus Military Reform Project of the Centre for Defense Information in Washington D.C.
Winslow, who was in Ottawa Tuesday, at the invitation of the Rideau Institute and Physicians for Global Survival, said the estimated price of $75 million per plane is too low.
"Nobody on this Earth is going to be buying F-35's in flyable condition at $75 million a copy. That's not in the cards," he said.
Winslow said $75 million may be the base price for the aircraft, but not the price to make it operable. In fact, he said that the government's estimate may not even include the engines.
- i_monk0
zarkonite you're in Calgary, you don't even pay taxes! And your roads are paved in toonies.
- zarkonite0
eieio: What I said was "I thought Layton was great in the debates but his rhetoric is all about providing more to the people... aka raising my taxes."
Their budget is full of new measures that are essentially hand outs to support certain industries or communities (or whatever they see fit)... the money has to come from somewhere.
They never speak against raising taxes, they don't even pay lip service to that philosophy so they're definitely not going after that vote. Just look at the debates again, whenever Harper talks about keeping taxes low, Ignatief jumps in and says "us too! us too!" almost every time but Layton goes in a different direction and talks about the kind of help people need. I might be wrong, but I'm not taking a chance on that subject.
- ********0
Can anyone show me an example of the Conservatives lowering taxes for Canadian citizens? (Excluding corporate tax breaks.)
- how about the lower of the GST by 2%?aldebaran
- In his 2008 budget address, Stephen Harper called the HST "the single most important step provinces with retail sales taxes could take to improve the competitiveness of Canadian businesses."********
- ...could take to improve the competitiveness of Canadian businesses." DOES NOT COUNT.********
- ETM0
There have been a fair number of income tax credits that I have used in the last few years. They did drop the GST by 2%.
I don't know how much they lowered personal taxes, but I think the issue is more that they don't get raised.
- ********0
Well, everyone hates the HST.
In his 2008 budget address, Stephen Harper called the HST "the single most important step provinces with retail sales taxes could take to improve the competitiveness of Canadian businesses."
I guess what I'm getting at is that the Conservatives have branded themselves as the "lower tax" or "we don't raise tax" party, but when it comes down to actually governing, they only lower corporate tax.
- i_monk0
Are you forgetting who created the GST in the first place? The Progressive Conservatives under Brian Mulroney.
- Haha. So true.********
- And lowering the GST was a campaign move to buy votes, they just collect it in other places.********
- gst replaced the manufactures tax, so really it was a tax shiftmonNom
- Haha. So true.
- i_monk0
http://www.projectdemocracy.ca/
Find your riding, then see who you can vote for to beat the local Con candidate.
- i_monk0
Suck it:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/…
"When companies failed to put the money they received in tax cuts back into capital projects, it served as a major source of Canada's economic downturn, the study indicated."
- ********0
In the past I've always argued against strategic voting.
This year, I've changed my mind. Stephen Harper is undermining much of what Canadians have worked to become since the country began. We need him out of office.
I understand why people vote Conservative, I do. But Harper is not even standing up for the conservative people of Canada. He is not acting the way a true "conservative" would.
And he only wins because most people in Canada don't care enough to vote. Which is to say, it must be pretty good here if there is so much voter apathy.
However, after he spends a few more years undermining the values of all Canadians (those on the left and the right) it will take so much time to build it back up to where it was.
Bottom line: Harper is bad for Canada, and for Canadians.
- You can rally all you want, but Ignatieff is not going to win and Layton can't win so you'll end up just splitting the votespot13
- All we have to do is deny Harper a majority.i_monk
- I know. I'm suggesting everyone use http://www.projectde…********