487K Montreal logo
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- ********0
"Can you improve the schools and infrastructure for 487K?"
uh ya. you can do a lot with that amount of cash.
- show mejimbojones
- ffs you need 200K to build a fucking gymnasiumjimbojones
- Repairs. Textbooks. More teachers and counsellors. Another coach. A lab. C'mon, man.luckyorphan
- 500K, how many teachers can get with that amount of money? 5? 8? ok, 10? woo-fucking-hoojimbojones
- ...5-10 just for that year....palmer_
- ********0
"ffs you need 200K to build a fucking gymnasium"
a gymnasium wold make a bigger difference in the community than this logo ever will
- < bingo.luckyorphan
- oh, and 687 would cover almost four gymnasiums.luckyorphan
- What about upkeep over the life of the gym? That's sure to cost a lot more than 500k.palmer_
- jimbojones0
oh, so we're really arguing about the impact and the right to exist of design and advertising as a whole? then fuck you, it's not grade school anymore.
and ffs it's not only the logo, the logo didn't cost more than $30K
- marcostill0
paris logo: http://en.parisinfo.com/
beijing logo: http://english.visitbeijing.com.…
- ********0
Saskatchewan's Premier wanted to change their logo. The people spoke up and said that it was a waste of money that could be used elsewhere.
They have the same logo and are the only province that is not going to post a defect in this recession.
- coinsidence or is design really worthless shit?jimbojones
- ok so you take away the oil and the potash and the reduced population, you still feel like Sask is fiscally superior or just lucky?zarkonite
- lucky? Of course Sask wouldn't need a new brand, they don't need the exposure, who takes a vacation in regina?!!?zarkonite
- marcostill0
paris logo: http://en.parisinfo.com/
beijing logo: http://english.visitbeijing.com.…
- monNom0
Poor value for the money harms our profession whether it's a $200 logo or a $2,000,000.
Montreal was hoodwinked, and we all end up looking like crooks.
- they were far from hoodwinked.marcostill
- well the taxpayers certainly were. City Council might sniff at .5mil but for the average person, that's a lot of money for a drawingmonNom
- ...for a drawing of an MmonNom
- luckyorphan0
^
I'm sure that the introduction of both the Paris and Beijing logos were instrumental in the promotion of their cities. Surely no one had ever heard of them before their crack tourism promotions team got down to business.- Sorry, that's regarding marcostill's note.luckyorphan
- ...though I do agree with monNom.luckyorphan
- luckyorphan0
Huh. This is interesting:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wiki…
from the article on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_L…"In 1977, William S. Doyle, Deputy Commissioner of the New York State Department of Commerce hired advertising agency Wells Rich Greene to develop a marketing campaign for New York State. Doyle also recruited Milton Glaser, a productive graphic designer to work on the campaign, and created the design based on Wells Rich Greene's advertising campaign. Glaser expected the campaign to last only a couple months and did the work pro bono."
Pro bono. Free. I'm done.
- I do love New York.luckyorphan
- expected the campaign to last only a couple monthsjimbojones
- and that one guy did the nike swoosh for $300 instead of % of every shirt.jimbojones
- it was a girl, for $80 i thoughtversion3
- Nike did pay her a bonus of a Diamond Ring and undisclosed stock options. She's long since retired, so it must have gone alright.Amicus
- btw - it was only $35
http://en.wikipedia.…
Amicus - Hardly any clients would give you a % of sales for doing work anyway.jamble
- jimbojones0
yeah so what are you trying to say? famous cities with loads of tourists and biz don't need branding (see how I don't use the word logo as some only seem relate it to one png on the homepage), ok. not so famous cities with not so many tourists and biz don't need branding either?
- jimbojones0
No, they don't need it.
-
luckyorphanso you think a bunch of posters with pretty picturs and "visit montreal" set in whatever the local printer sees fit would do the trick?
- marcostill0
so to all those saying 500k is too much, would you tell a client "you know sir, 500k is far too much, i can do that for only 10k."
no you wouldn't. you'd crap your pants, giggle like a school girl and then get them to sign a contract before they change their minds.
you people act like this isn't a business.
- A public institution is funded by the people's taxes. A private client is not.luckyorphan
- so if a city came to you offering 500k you would turn it down? but if nike was offering it you'd take it?marcostill
- Yes. I would turn down the city money. Call me stupid or a liar, but that's my final answer, Regis.luckyorphan
- Andrew_D0
Luckyorphan, have you ever been to Montreal?
- luckyorphan0
No, I think that a bunch of posters with a ten thousand dollar logo on it would do the job just as well. The city could have held a competition, or found some up-and-coming studio. Or opened it up to the schools in the city, and make it more democratic and let the people vote on who the city could award $10k to. Either way, they could have been a bit more creative on how to get a decent logo, and saved a mint in the meantime.
- you didn't just say fucking "competition" did you? fucking hell you're all over the place.marcostill
- Letting people vote on things is how you end up with shit like Toronto Raptors for an NBA team name.Andrew_D
- You're right! Down with voting!!! There's too much at stake!!! The experts must decide!!!luckyorphan
- I think the problems with government is that they are elected by people with no expertise in government.Amicus
- same problem happens with committees or competitions for logos.Amicus
- jimbojones0
meh, I'm done with this thread, arguing over the internet is pointless.
try to realize that 500K expenses for a city of montreal's size is such fucking peanuts. try to realize that while those very 500K given to one principal just like that may be a big deal, but split over all the schools or whatever in montreal it's nothing. like I said, you can get 10 teachers for that. or millions of paying tourists. try to realize that contests or crowdsourcing or school projects result in intergalactical shit nobody wants to see. try to realize that the city hopes for huge ROI and it will pay off anyway. but if you still don't realize all this you probably won't.
have fun making brands without a logo. pro bono. free.
- Yes. I'll gladly follow Milton Glaser's example. He's a bright chap.luckyorphan
- You're right. A design studio would use that money much more responsibly.luckyorphan
- marcostill0
this thread reminded me why i hate designers
- Yes! We agree!luckyorphan
- They get so mad over something so insignificant.luckyorphan
- no, they're the biggest fucking hypocrites, for the most part. not too mention a very jealous bunch.marcostill
- akrokdesign0
LA don't need a logo, they got luckyorphan. lol.
- akrokdesign0
"the biggest fucking hypocrites, for the most part. not too mention a very jealous bunch"
sounds like the LA tagline. lol.
- How so?luckyorphan
- Ah. I get it. Of course, that could be the QBN Public Voice tagline too, eh.luckyorphan
- yeah it's pretty universal.akrokdesign
- hektor9110
Designers talking trash about how much was spent on a design project. Well I don't care how much was spent on that logo, as long as it works. I will care about the price if the logo does not serve its purpose.
- noneck0
Keep in mind a couple of things:
1) The agency didn't really set the price. These things are put out to bid, usually with an stated budget. The city knows how much it was willing to spend.
2) Designing an ID system for a city is not the same as designing an logo for a private corporation with a single owner.
3) If you've ever had the opportunity to work for a government–be it municipal, provincial, or federal–you know what a pain in the ass they are to work with.
Working with government clients is a tremendous pain in the ass. I would lump universities in there too. You have never had such a difficult client. They'll send in two people for every person the agency sends to a meeting, and each of their people is there to represent the interests of four others that couldn't make it.
Any decision needs to be run past a large committee, who then runs it up past other decision makers for feedback.
And then, because your work is for a public organization, it needs to be completely safe. Is there ANY possibility that this could offend even 0.00001% of the population? Because that person exists, will see the work, and will be offended. This work is incredibly sensitive.
Then, lets say that the work has something wrong with it, a tiny little detail that makes it into the newspapers (because it will). Doesn't matter where the fault actually lies, the agency takes the blame. Even if the work doesn't have something wrong with it, the agency ends up in the media anyways with this kind of discussion. "City pays $500K for this waste of money" kind of articles are easy targets for the media.
It can be pretty tough to justify the real cost of an identity project to a client, even if you only bill $3000. A lot of work gets done for that money, and the deliverables are pretty skimpy. Combine that with the complexities of working with a government? $500K for creative is a bargain.
- Having said that, the logo is nice, not great. And logos for govts are never a good idea.noneck