what we do
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- ********0
The only people who care are designers. End of discussion.
- no, it's the start you fucktard; the question was why we care and if we shouldjimbojones
- take it easy, wow.DrBombay
- life is short Jimboborino, settle down and dont take yourself so serious.********
- come on, I just like to curse on the interwebs. you cunt.jimbojones
- cock. balls.identity
- ********0
Case Study:
I just showed the 2 examples to a friend here who is in sales. I asked him to spend 5minutes looking it over and to tell me the difference.
His answers.
1. There is one pic on the left and 3 on the right.
2. There are no people in the pic on the left.
3. The blanket on the couch isn't folded.There you have it. Don't you just love your job////
- Coffeemaker0
what did you show?
- gramme0
Maybe my experiences have been weird, but at least half of the clients I've worked with in recent years take a vested interest in the typefaces I choose for their organization, and why. For instance, last year when I proposed Mercury for the official typeface of my church, and told the group about Mercury's roots in late Dutch Reformation era typography, they were all over it and happily shelled out $1,400 for the entire family.
Another client recently told me he thought Benton (what they've been using) was a bit too vanilla for their needs, and when I showed him National, he immediately picked up on the differences.
Again, another client earlier this summer needed a distinctly American typeface for their ID. They'd been using Helvetica intermingled with Myriad, and when I described Helvetica's European connotations and the way it clashes with Myriad's humanist forms, then went on to say I thought one single family of fonts would solve all their typographic problems, they were all ears and very appreciative.
Maybe this is all still ego-stroking, but in these cases it's primarily the client's ego rather than just mine, and they do write the paychecks after all. At any rate, it seems to interest my clients at least on some level because the fonts I choose are always relevant to who they are and who they want to be.
- Here, RELIGION. Dutch Reformation! You always have to drag in religion?Coffeemaker
- Well, it was for a church after all...gramme
- No no, clients love this stuff. Not a single church visitor will ever spot the Dutch roots in Mercury, or Fleischmann or Dolly.They won't think "hmm, isn't it weird to use Times here", that is the point.jimbojones
- Dolly.They won't think "hmm, isn't it weird to use Times here", that is the point.jimbojones
- Yeah but it fits. They might not be able to see why, but the choice certainly isn't inappropriate.gramme
- people often use the arguments like the triangle means stability, and blue is for future. Meaningless crap is what often emerges then. I don't think this is the right argument when choosing a typeface. Would it be cool if all churches used Mercury? Or a serif face at all? I'm not sure.jimbojones
- what often emerges then. I don't think this is the right argument when choosing a typeface. Would it be cool if all churches used Mercury? Or a serif face at all? I'm not sure.jimbojones
- churches used Mercury? Or a serif face at all? I'm not sure.jimbojones
- Of course not, because all churches are different. A contemporary urban church would require something... well, more contemporary.gramme
- more contemporary.gramme
- and traditional churches require something more traditional -> Mercury. I still think it's a thin argumentation.jimbojones
- gramme0
...and then sometimes making things excellent is enough of a reward in and of itself for me.
- ********0
I showed him this
- well it is a confusing image as it doesn't show the same image with different typefacesCoffeemaker
- in short: this example sucks for scientific surveysCoffeemaker
- to the untrained eye, if they notice anything at all, they will only notice the serifs on the I7point34
- exactly, that's why the only people who really give a shit are us. The ones with the trained eyes********
- transmission0
our ad agency once did a TV spot for us this after about 5 years after they developed our new brand and picked Futura as one of our house fonts. Our "brand manager" sent it to me to go over it the first thing i noticed was that they didn't use futura ( it was helvetica ) and I mentioned it to the "brand" manager and she said she hadn't even noticed! that's not the first time she's confused many sans-serif for futura.
It saddens me.
but really many faces these days are very similar in nature to each other. For designers they're like apples, you can taste the difference between a Golden Delicious and Granny Smith but to most it's an apple.
- Coffeemaker0
I AM FUCKING CRYING HERE!
- jimbojones0
@gramme, regarding badly drawn Arial, people don't notice such things. It took me years to see what good type is. Even designers (I don't even mean the folks with cracked Photoshop, but people who received design education of some sort) pick badly drawn typefaces all the time, 90% of what Smashing Magazine delivers is amateurish crap and still people go oohh and aaahh.
And then there are faces that were drawn badly for a reason, applying certain aesthetic standards to say.. OurType Parry would make a pretty badly drawn face. I think it's fantastic for what it is, a fun quirky text face. Same goes for Dolly, not a single straight line, is that even allowed?
So I would puke if I had to layout a magazine using Times, but I can't say this face is ugly, or illegible or what would be my argument to replace it with Albertina or something? And people would not notice the change. Is it all just for my own satisfaction? Then the cliche of self-centered bullshit-telling overhyped desingers is perfectly true.
- So why even bother? I ask because it seems you really enjoy typography.gramme
- that is the question that bothers ME, is it all just for me alone, this can't be itjimbojones
- what's wrong with well-tracked Times? (serious question)identity
- it only works in tight columns. the digital version is too sharp, too much contrast.jimbojones
- ********0
I think that study of typography provides the designer with a complex and nuanced system for expression. A nice mix of inferred connotation and practical execution (trying to best illustrate the intention of the writer).
I think that having access to this system, and having the opportunity to play with it and understand it, is what's appealing and worthwhile about typography.
It's one of the few areas of graphic design, when ultimately it doesn't matter what the majority things.
- jimbojones0
I do agree that you can achieve different (emotional) goals when you with Univers rather than Bodoni. My point is that the end user doesn't care if you use Arial vs. Univers or Times vs. Bodoni
So why do we bother at all, system fonts are cheap, available and technically pretty good.- Basically because sometimes being a prostitute isn't enough.********
- so I'm a prostitute who wants to cum every time, hoping that the client will to? even if he doesn't notice the seconde dildo up the ass?jimbojones
- ass?jimbojones
- hmm.. perhaps ;) - but it was really just a shit metaphor for describing the relationship between designer and client********
- it's a good metaphor. am I a good prostitute if I always think of me first?jimbojones
- no - well, not unless you have masochistic clients :)********
- but, I do think that typography is a area that you can get away with masturbating over********
- same goes for designers, no?jimbojones
- I mean being a bad prostitute.jimbojones
- yep - I think so; but maybe it's not so straightforward.. there are always different problems involved in a brief********
- ... and the client usually isn't going to know what they are -> so sometimes they don't know what they want********
- this makes us superheroes againjimbojones
- yeah, maybe it's too ego-flattering to think that way********
- Basically because sometimes being a prostitute isn't enough.
- ukit0
Good design has the connotation of being high quality.
It creates the illusion that a product or service will be worth spending money on.
- ********0
I think that one major problem with design today is that it's tied so tightly to consumerism.
I believe design is about solving problems... but too often the problem that graphic designers are set is "sell this product".
Not all briefs have to be framed in this way, and if you stop to think of other problems that graphic designers can approach - maybe the benefit of considered typography becomes more apparent?
- jimbojones0
Then you need a study if better typography actually influences sales. I am afraid I won't like the result.
- I'm saying the opposite.. I think typography matters more if you take the bottom line out of the equation********
- but if you don't? If you have a layout using Helvetica, and you only substitute Helvetica with Arial I believe the effect on sales would be zero.jimbojones
- sales would be zero.jimbojones
- depending on your audience / market - I completely agree..********
- however - if you're selling (yet another) book about helvetica...********
- you tend to turn it to a jokejimbojones
- I'm saying the opposite.. I think typography matters more if you take the bottom line out of the equation
- ukit0
How would you ever conduct a study like that though? You are right that people aren't going to choose to buy something based on whether it's set in Futura or Verdana, just like they won't choose based on the color of the box or the copy most of the time. It's just one out of many factors. Doesn't mean it's not important.
- studderine0
maybe get a degree in a sustainability, then you can really make a difference.
- identity0
Vs.
- ...and Im not knocking Optimaidentity
- the lighter blue gives it a more positive vibe as well.janne76
- oh fuck, if the whole campaign was set in comic sans, would you go cry in the corner and vote McCain?jimbojones
- jimbojones0
^
not to be mistaken with Gotham vs. Optima
Btw. set CHANGE in Arial, nobody would notice.
- studderine0
sorry boys and girls, this is commercial design...go get some.
- ********0
about ten years ago I did a very intricate AE animation with hundreds of parts honoring ten years of grant recipients. when the moment came to play the animation to the audience, I found that my carefully planned presentation had somehow been ruined with dozens of randomly substituted, absolutely hideous typefaces. When the animation wa sover, everyone told me how great it was
- i always feel a bit lonelier after moments like this - and this is why i've starting swearing so fucking much... 'who cares?' :(PonyBoy
- sad, isn't it?jimbojones
- as I recall, I had used didot, and it eneded up with papyrus and shit********
- ouch.gramme