Politics
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- brains0
*shakes fist, quietly leaves thread.
- DrBombay0
FYI, I made no reference to Fox News, Jesus or right-wing talk shows on the previous page. So get out your emotions, Kevin in the real world, not the one you invent to argue against.
- locustsloth0
ALL insurance, private, government run, whatever; home, auto, health... It's ALL some people paying for others. If it wasn't, health insurance would be like a big savings account and you'd only be able to get out what you had to that point put in.
i've yet to be in a car accident since being on my own auto insurance 10yrs ago. That money that i paid in premiums went to people who did have accidents in the meantime. If i get in a serious accident, involving more money than i've ever paid out, others will be paying for meAdditionally, PonyBoy, you harp on DrBombay for being too emotional about all this (and certainly, he does get fired up an awful lot) but you seem pretty fired up as well. Why? What is the situation you are in that makes you so against health care reform?
And on a purely philosophical note (read: bereft of actual facts), shouldn't we seek to grow into the kind of society where we DO take care of each other more? Yeah, there's a lot of growing up to do as a society in order to get to that place, but do you honestly think the "Every man for himself" model would garner the best result over time?
- i feel like you've menioned the answer to paragraph 2 somewhere, but i can't be arsed o find itlocustsloth
- i'm fired up because people use emotional experiences and forgo the logic to simply leave it as 'you're heartless'.PonyBoy
- PonyBoy0
only with you, good Dr... do the rules not apply then...
... i'm not allowed to use your years of posting history as a basis for holding a conversation with you?
How many times have you called out something from Fox or about religion etc etc? How many times have you called someone a nasty name lumping them in with religious nuts or rightwing extreme thinking?
...so many times that if you had put even the smallest effort / heart / time you do into these SILLY online conversations... you probably could have found the cure to cancer by now.
- hehe... and on that note... i'm a total hypocrite for being involved... ;)PonyBoy
- DrBombay0
You are like an irrational ex-girlfriend bringing up old shit. WTF does that have to do with the topic at hand?
- you do it ALL THE TIME, ffs... what's good for the goose... blah blah???PonyBoy
- it's like your QBN trademark to hold shit over people and refuse to concede someone might have a point simply because...PonyBoy
- ... you have disagreed with them in the past.PonyBoy
- Why is this coming up now, Anne? I mean Kevin...DrBombay
- healthcare has me heated upPonyBoy
- because this is a topic that has hit home with me as long as I can remember... and I'm tired of being called 'heartless'...PonyBoy
- ... when it's just the opposite.PonyBoy
- Maybe you should stop only being focused on money in your life.DrBombay
- that's not my focus though - my focus is on being fair to the average joePonyBoy
- The average Joe isn't getting dividend checks from Insurance stocks.DrBombay
- Do you have any idea what a Ins. Broker makes in commissions and bonuses? It's criminal.Mimio
- Mimio0
To conservatives: money = liberty
- ridiculous... absolutely ridiculous commentPonyBoy
- Then what are they bitching about? other than taxes?Mimio
- personal responsibility... being aware of the fact that sometime in life - you are going to be sick... you WILL die...PonyBoy
- ... and that end the end - you do not have a 'right' to have someone take care of you... and to 'expect' that becausePonyBoy
- we are human beings is ridiculous.PonyBoy
- No one is advocating free health care, get it through your head yet?DrBombay
- P.S. the is precisely why conservative Christians are hypocrites.Mimio
- So do your reservations break down to "Don't tell me what to do!!"?locustsloth
- PonyBoy0
To liberals: rich people = greedy evil white people
- Mimio0
At least you're starting to realize that your position is morally indefensible.
- locustsloth0
i have to admit, the immediately going to the "you're heartless" button whenever someone disagrees with health care reform gets old. Just like the "socialist/communist" button gets old when someone is talking about govenment involvement in any aspect of life.
But, PonyBoy, obviously what people are OVERstating is that there are people who, under the current system, cannot afford to keep themselves healthy. And that's due to a number of factors, for which and easy (not inexpensive, mind you, but easy to conceive of) answer is government run health care. No one here thinks this govt runs even a remotely tight ship, so yeah, in some way they've fuck it up (in part or total) if it is implemented. But is that your only objection to it?- * which an easylocustsloth
- i don't have an objection to reform - and i appreciate you seeing what my point is...PonyBoy
- ... it's difficult to share a sound thought that goes against the common grain of the thread especially when you're...PonyBoy
- ... bombarded w/statements announcing that I must not care except when it comes to money.PonyBoy
- All you ever talk about are taxes.DrBombay
- PonyBoy0
My main objection to this debate is that humans do not have 'a right' to healthcare.
You do not have a right to have someone come and take care of you.
When you start placing demands in a bill that say you must buy health insurance when you don't need it... it's the same thing as saying 'it's up to you take care of this sick guy over here that you don't know when in fact I could very well have my own set of other issues completely outside of health that are eating me alive financially...
... bringing me to my final point: This is always going to be about money... and not about your well-being... no matter what fucking bill gets pushed through. To keep saying 'Kevin, all you care about is not paying taxes' or 'all you care about is money'...
... YOU'RE DAMED FUCKING RIGHT.
I'm in debt w/my OWN health bills well over $150k RIGHT NOW. I have to have open-heart surgery to repair something I was born with of which I CANNOT afford given the current costs now... this I'm told will set me back another $150k. RIDICULOUS.
So... get the FUCKING COST DOWN.
Don't tax the fuck out of everyone and expect everyone to get on the same fucking path you're on. I don't. My heart IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM. You don't' have to worry about it... and I'm GLAD you don't. :) I mean that w/all that's left of my heart. ;)
Please... PLEASE... pass a bill that just gets the costs down via regulation but allows healthcare to remain an 'industry' where I have options / choices... where the competition allows the price to come down - taxing everyone an extra amount to try get everyone on the same page... does... not... work.
Tort reform - ASAP... ease the FRIVOLOUS burden of heavy lawsuits on doctors and insurance companies and you wouldn't have nearly the insane costs that we do now...
... it's alllll aobut MONEY, guys... it's not about you caring about me or your neighbor - the majority of us DO CARE... but we're a) not doctors and b) don't have the MONEY to help.
get the cost down... then get lost, gov... that's all I ask.
NO GOV. OPTION... that's fucking STUPID (which it's not going to happen anyway)... but that option will not 'create competition'... it'll merely lower the standards of healthcare as good coverage will eventually slip away to that 'mediocre' plan we'd all be on under uncle sam.
I'm not heartless - I'm logical. My logic dictates that I love all you... and I do... especially the good DoctorBom / dob...
I find it heartless to expect others to foot the bill for me or you... it's not right to expect that from our fellow human beings who (as I mentioned above) have their own trials / tribulations / aspirations in play.
- you wouldn't survive 5 minutes in a foreign country.DrBombay
- The rest of the world is wrong, America is right.DrBombay
- I can kick in $15 with ten thousand other people to save your life.Mimio
- that's out of love though, mimio... and I'd do the same for any of you... hell... i'd kick in $16 :)PonyBoy
- So because you wish to have someone assist you with your problems everyone else in the nation should follow suit?EightyDeuce
- It is immoral to let you die. So let's find the best way to pay for it and get on with our lives.Mimio
- to expect everyone to do so is asking alot though - just get the costs down... then there's no issue...right?PonyBoy
- *not haveEightyDeuce
- EightyDeuce - it'd be nice if folks could look to themselves and their families - but of course this isn't always the case...PonyBoy
- ... therefor I feel it more 'fair' and loving (or moral Mimio ;) ) to reduce the cost so we can in fact all afford it.PonyBoy
- Entire nations in Europe and Asia are immoral!DrBombay
- You'd think the right would be in competition to "out-moral" the Euros.Mimio
- version30
10,000
- fooler20
I'm looking into health insurance right now.
If I stay on COBRA it's going to cost me $340 a month. If I get on my wives insurance it will cost $450. This seems a little steep for a healthy mid 30's male that goes to the doctor once every 2 years for a sore throat. (knocks on wood). I'm waiting to see if I get accepted into this group plan that has a huge deductible but will only cost me $200 a month.
So now my question is... if this bill passes how much is government mandated health insurance going to cost me a month?- +1
unfortunately - it comes down to moneyPonyBoy - Probably $135-$170 month.($1,000 deduct.) Like Vermont's base plan.Mimio
- My health insurance is $510 per month. Glad to pay it.********
- would you still be glad to pay an extra 6k in taxes if you received free health care?fooler2
- he can't comprehend that.DrBombay
- Bring back John Kerry's Health care plan!! It was pretty good.Mimio
- I thought we weren't talking about 'free' health care?mathinc
- +1
- Mimio0
The reason we have Medicare is because we don't leave the lives of our oldest citizens up to the pressures and goals of the free market. Why would a insurance business want to insure a 65 year old man? What market pressure exists to service this need?
- PonyBoy0
i've noticed a few comments about other nations and their health plans...
... please follow up those outbursts w/said country's financial statement and current debt and tell me if you think that's really a great plan for the states
- PonyBoy0
you folks do realize that regardless if you're deathly ill or just hurt (broken arm / cuts etc)... you cannot be refused treatment... right?
- epic_rim0
Earth saw clmate chnge4 ions;will cont 2 c chnges.R duty2responsbly devlop resorces4humankind/not pollute&destroy;but cant alter naturl chng
- ********0
Don't let these mobsters beat you down Pony Boy.
- nothing but love for everyone here... and I truly mean it :)PonyBoy
- We know you're a good guy Pony. Just impassioned like the rest of us.Mimio
- Nah I think he is a prick. He pissed me off on the previous page.DrBombay
- oh... you love me, dobs.. i just needed to say something to get your attention and I got it - didn't wish a touch of ill will your wayPonyBoy
- fuck off.DrBombay
- nah... I'd rather hug you thank fuck off, dobs... you know I hope your mom is okay... don't go overboard here.PonyBoy
- it was your attitude that pissed me off, gfyDrBombay
- dobs - you got your own attitude jammed back in your face - it's a shame you don't see that's all I was doing... and did well. ;)PonyBoy
- it hurts looking in the mirror when it comes to one's attitude / own selfPonyBoy
- Nah, you aren't cool to me anymore.DrBombay
- PonyBoy0
you know... i'm not against the idea of paying into a plan that's only there when we really really need it...
... if you have a cold / soar throat / flu... blah blah... that shit should come out of your pocket unless you're deathly sick due to some underlying oddity about your own immune system...
... but if you break a leg / have a nasty accident / stricken by something lethal... anything that is considered 'catastrophic' in nature... well - then it should be covered.
I know this may come off as racist - but a big problem in this country is the fact that the E.R. doors are always open to anyone even w/a silly minor sniffle - this is a major issue w/'illegal immigrants' in this country. Millions flood the E.R.'s each year w/minor issues that in turn you pay for w/your high premiums.
Are there plenty of trashy deadbeat 'mericans (whitetrash to ghetto black to dirty yellow to Alf-looking creepy mother-fuckers who look like they have no nationality from this planet) that pull this shit on a regular basis? yep.
Is it morally right to allow that kind of thing to keep milking everyone else? I don't think so... and it's not because I don't have love for those of other nationalities (or who are pure white trash)... I'm just not interested in being a part of footing the bill for mass irresponsibility.
- I am against the idea of being forced to buy anything. Ever heard of fascism? You people watch to much TV.********
- And I refuse to pay for corruption.********
- well... I have a bit of agreement with Mimio on the 'moral' issue of saving life... therefor I am willing to be a part of a plan...PonyBoy
- ... as long as it's fair across the boardPonyBoy
- Should have voted for John Kerry. He had the plan. If you vote that is.Mimio
- you're right..... you do come off as a racistfooler2
- i hate white people and people who smell like fruit... any fruit too... i just hate sweet smells on people in generalPonyBoy
- i'm a fruitist and a smellist too... tack those to the list, fooler ;)PonyBoy
- I am against the idea of being forced to buy anything. Ever heard of fascism? You people watch to much TV.
- johndiggity0
maybe health insurance isn't the best idea? do you think anyone in the federal government stopped to think about this before they got started on this reform bill?
- 7point340
ponyboy is confused.
he's been arguing this whole time thinking that "gov't run healthcare" meant "statutory legal age being 18 and older"
for the record he's against the legal age provision, citing the age old precedent of grass vs. playing field. as far as public healthcare he is still of no opinion.