Politics
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- ********0
I've read a few of these posts, and it seems that a lot of anger is directed towards people who'll directly benefit from the treatment that medical insurance provides. The idea that some sections of the society might get something for free, pisses people off.
I'm an outsider (non-US), so maybe I'm talking bull - but it seems to me that the larger problem is the way the medical and insurance industries operates. They've formed a kind of cartel, one side inflates cost over time and the other accommodates the rise.
I reckon it should be a given that people should be provided with a basic level of healthcare in any country. If a person is severely disadvantaged due to no fault of their own, that disadvantage should be rectified. No health insurance seems like a grave disadvantage - and anyone born into poverty is likely to be placed in this situation by default.
I've been listening to the senate debates on CNN. It sounds like some of your politicians are basically just trying to set sections of society against each other, while the real enemy sits on the sidelines waiting to rake in the money.
Surely the part of the equation that's rotten is the medical/insurance industries? After all, they're also the part that stand to benefit no-matter what.
- who made that cartel possible? i remember when obama ran he said u need a scalpel and not a hatchet, he's using a hatchet.********
- hatchet.********
- the fact that the market isn't regulated made it possible********
- who made that cartel possible? i remember when obama ran he said u need a scalpel and not a hatchet, he's using a hatchet.
- DrBombay0
There is a portion of society, especially in America that think that if poor people, minorities etc. receive any sort of welfare, health care etc. that this somehow is taking something away from them. I am amazed that there isn't a huge movement against all of the unemployment compensation extensions that have been and continue to be approved in this country. Fucking amazed.
- PonyBoy0
for the record, dobs / dr bombay... i had no clue that your mom has thyroid cancer - if you mentioned it this morning in the thread I missed it / passed over the post and I haven't been reading this thread as much as I have in the passed as of late...
...i really do apologize and I would have NEVER said what I did in that note if I had known. I'm sorry for that - I can see how that may have come across heartless.
- it's in remission now, that isn't the point, your smarmy attitude was fucked up. so fuck off.DrBombay
- You act like anyone who needs healthcare and cant afford it is lazy and I think that is a shitty cynical outlook as well as being incredibly insulting.DrBombay
- incredibly insulting to hard-working people.DrBombay
- You speak of me lumping people together, but you do this everytime you talk about this topic. Except you want to deny people life-saving treatments.DrBombay
- deny people life-saving treatments so your taxes don't go up. Money rules your world. It is fucking sad.DrBombay
- you can really say I want to DENY people life-saving treatment after my posts?PonyBoy
- you speak of me as being smarmy... i'm merely reflecting the shit you dribble day in and day out, chumpPonyBoy
- // you're a class act, btw
- you go above and beyond on a daily-basis to speak in rather disgusting terms towards thosePonyBoy - you disagree with...
... i don't think i've once ever seen you conceded even the smallest point eitherPonyBoy - and you call me, smarmy...
... what a chump you can be, dobs...PonyBoy - ...head so far up your ass you can see it coming back out your neck againPonyBoy
- What should I be conceding?DrBombay
- the fact that you're a chump to start ;)PonyBoy
- You want to give out free life saving procedures? I must have missed that.DrBombay
- uh oh... you used the word 'free'...
... how am I supposed to take that now?PonyBoy - If you think I am a chump I can deal with that. I think you are a selfish, money hungry bastard.DrBombay
- actually... i still like you :)PonyBoy
- You should, I didn't do anything to make you feel any different than you did yesterday.DrBombay
- omgitsacamera0
"The heat in my house is also my general welfare, so are my groceries, my clothing. So yeah, pay for it. I don't want to."
You can pay for it just fine. You would be crying your ass off for help if you were on the brink of ruin because you got sick, too. Get the Kool-Aid out of your system and put yourself in someone else's skin for once.
- haha.. you missed my point. Zip, right on past the point. Look, go up to the next light make a u-trun and head back 2 mi.mathinc
- Point was.. the term 'General Welfare' can be viewed from all different perspectives. You unfortunately think that it meansmathinc
- that health care is a right. When it is not in fact a right.mathinc
- ********0
Doesn't the idea that welfare is a bad idea come down to a notion that
a) anyone can make it if they try hard enough
b) therefore; those who are struggling, are at the bottom because they're lazy
- ********0
I think that is basically an idea that a lot of people have been raised on. It might have even been true for their grandparents .. but as the gap between rich and poor has increased over time, it's now virtually impossible to get out of poverty if you're born into it. Becoming rich and 'making it' for some sections of society, is equal to winning the lottery.
- I completely disagree with this. This is not the Philippines and almost every person I know who is 'rich' came here with nothing.mathinc
- I know a guy from Pakistan who still has the one outfit he came here with hanging in a dry cleaning bag in his closet.mathinc
- I know a man who was raised in an orphanage in Hawaii.mathinc
- but poverty isn't just about money - it's also about lack of culture, family, support structures.. it's far more********
- and I think that a lot of working class families (in the uk at least) suffer as much from a lack of support (as they do from little money)********
- maybe this is an area that other countries (traditional thought of as developing) trump the west********
- ********0
... and as a result it's just become empty rhetoric that's used by the rightwing to achieve other more disingenuous aims.
- fooler20
Here's the latest thing to get the right wingers panties all bunched up...
Build-A-Bear Draws Global Warming Fire
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/s…Kind of hypocritical to get mad at santa for spilling so called lies to children, what about when the kids learn there is no santa and they;ve been lied to about that.
- ********0
im still down with mental healthcare as being very significant to physical health. if there is a public option it better cover nicer whips (would love an sti), maybe some hot broads for rainy days. Dont want to be all depressed and hit the sauce and hurt my liver. Oh and lasik it should definitely cover lasik, better vision i consider a health must. If i can get you guys to crowdsource or whatever its called, for those things for me, i'll gladly buy in. And i'll ignore the costs as long as possible with whatever stolen concepts you use. I dont plan on kids so as long as i can ride this boat out until i eventually die (of disease or something, which is an inevitablility no matter how much public money is thrown at it) ill be happy. And u may say my demands are high but i have a RIGHT to healthcare, a RIGHT to stick my hands in your pockets. And if i dont get these things im going to be sick, because depression and sadness hurts your immune system and then im likely to catch pig flu and die. And like Doc says no one should die when it can be prevented. So you have to be good suckers and give me what i want. Because i know all you care about my health so deeply.... well those that are for the public option. i have paypal account setup for my personal healthcare for you guys that are down, incase public option doesnt work so you can still act on what you believe in and help make me healthy. if you dont youre just heartless pricks.
and i guess here is a link because it makes me feel like im helping....sort of relates to what im saying in an around about way...regardless though i want you pro care people to donate to my fund. or i wont be able to take you seriously. forms at fuckrightoff.com. Servers a bit janky so if nothing is there check back frequently or i can set u up with my paypal.
- Entire nations have enacted a better healthcare system than the US and you still harp on the same crap.DrBombay
- And where did their technology and techniques come from? A better system? Your party went and fed us to the insurance co'smathinc
- back in the 70's. We would have a fine system if the wolves weren't constantly being let into the hen house.mathinc
- i have no idea what you are saying without specific non blanket hollow comments examples, reasons, why. did u donate u cuddly buddy?********
- donate u cuddly buddy?********
- speaking of wolves didnt the evil insurance boom during the 40s because of gov intervention, new deal stuff********
- DrBombay0
Other countries are doing better financially and healthwise than the United States, lots of them. Why is that?
- DrBombay0
Following the logic of all the right wingers in this thread, Germany, The UK, Japan, South Korea, Sweden, Switzerland, France and many other countries should be completely fucked right now. But in reality they aren't. Why not?
- really. ill go get links becuase explanation takes too long....********
- keep in mind economies, social traits, population, and many others things also contribute. http://www.ncbi.nlm.…********
- the thing is .. if anyone has something - they generally want to hold on to it at any cost.. this is doubly true for money.********
- heres france keep in mind theres lot os revolts to current cuts http://www.npr.org/t…********
- swiss http://articles.lati… a bit different then some other articles, but enlightening********
- uk http://articles.lati…********
- lukus i think u were meanign the french? yes once in motion its prick near impossible to remove even when realized how big of a failure it is.********
- how big of a failure it is. thats a big part of the danger people dont get********
- yeah and its all peaches and cream here, right?DrBombay
- whos left germany, sweden. ill let you do soem foot work and discover the problems with those. now take all the info cross reference and use soem critical thinking********
- cross reference, factor out differences and use soem critical thinking. or watch your favorite media outlet and believe in what u want********
- beleiv ein what you want. just like a little christian soldier and his bible.********
- oh i think our system needs reform. i think gov incetives need to be pulled. let more of a free market eco system takes it course********
- its place. healthcare will be expensive based on research data and tech involved. recognize that. respect it. dont think its a right.and i think cost care can come down instead of up
********
- expect it for nothing. and cost will find a natural balance.********
- Not sure what you are so afraid of.DrBombay
- its sucks that people die. its an inevitablility. shit happens. be happy for what you have and deal with what you dont.********
- quit using this death terrorism to try to get handouts that ignore the fact your responsible for. so underevolved
********
- im afraid of people deciding to give up what i earn for magical beans. unless u give me whips and bitches. buy me off********
- see? All you care about is taxes.DrBombay
- really. ill go get links becuase explanation takes too long....
- mathinc0
Dobs, just because they have it doesn't mean it's going to work over here. We for one have a completely different society than a lot of the countries you're mentioning. We eat more, walk less, highly litigious. It's a huge ball of variables. I don't think it's as easy as trying on a fucking sweater that your auntie picked up for you in Italy. And why are you so eager to be like other countries anyways? You want those tax rates then find a nice Swedish girl and a down jacket and go live your dream. Oh I know I know, all I care about are taxes. I know you love to point that out.. it's just that.. I work my ass off and I'd rather not give it away for whimsical ideas cooked up by our politicians.
We need reform. And for some reason you think those 2,700+ pages in this bill are actually written for the poor and downtrodden? It's not a reform it's a fucking power grab.
- ********0
The left wants to pass their healthcare (tax) bill this year, so that they can begin taxing us in January. With this massive tax increase, disguised as a health care bill, Americans will pay and pay and pay for four long years before a single "new" health service as such is ever even rendered. Four long years. Many will suffer and die in the meantime. Both physically and financially. You all realize this right?
Yes four years is a long time to pay for something whilst receiving nothing in return, wouldn't you agree?
- Will happiness begin once you've paid back China? ;)********
- ha we should focus on cutting government overhead so to payback debts, unless plan is never to payback china, since the whole monetary thign is based on one big illusion********
- the whole money finance is based on one big illusion********
- raising taxes would payback the debt. just saying.DrBombay
- Will happiness begin once you've paid back China? ;)
- ********0
I find it strange that there's more protest to healthcare reform than there was to bailing out the banks...
- bankbailout=potentia... to gain more money, health reform=potential to loose money********
- Bailing out the banks was Obama's first big mistake.********
- maybe?********
- I am just waiting for people to start protesting all of the unemployment benefit extensions.DrBombay
- or bailing out banks was bush's last mistake?DrBombay
- i think its cause bank bailout is like wartime funds. establishing healthcare is non stop. a nonstop bailout would piss ppl off********
- off********
- bankbailout=potentia... to gain more money, health reform=potential to loose money
- ********0
Oh yea, and it should be noted that there is allot of pork (bribes/bought votes) in this bill, and I mean allot, allot, allot. Literally jammed with hundreds of millions of dollars in kickbacks.
Go Cornhuskers (just ask Sen. Ben Nelson)!
- the republicans never did that...DrBombay
- this sounds a little like, "you guys might have a point, buuuut .."********
- It is the way our fucked up country works, Lukus.DrBombay
- no its not jsut ppl liek doc that say because someone did evil i can do evil. and ignor ethat it is evil********
- you have the speaking skills of a retarded person.DrBombay
- mathinc0
Rick, welcome to the real world.
Sorry but money has always been very important to your quality of life. Before it was money it was precious metals. Before metals it was salt and spice.
It's as much a part of our world society as making babies.
- But it is all you care about.DrBombay
- You have never come here about a societal issue and bitched, it is always taxes.DrBombay
- No it isn't. You don't know me. You don't know what I believe.mathinc
- Because you are a one-dimensional money hungry loser libertarianDrBombay
- What societal issue have you bitched about?DrBombay
- haha. Yeah okay Rick. Hey if you want, since we're always on a different page on this stuff.. call me. We can have amathinc
- civil chat sometime. You really don't understand me at all.mathinc
- So it's just the tax thing then? No quick answer?DrBombay
- What's just the tax thing? I'm not following your question.mathinc
- Give me a call, we'll sort this out. I'm growing tired of this bullshit.mathinc
- I have long grown tired of your bullshit, I have desire no talk to your dumb head on a phone.DrBombay
- no desire to...DrBombay
- Why? Maybe we can come to some sort of understanding. Unless you're afraid that you might actually find me agreeable.mathinc
- Talking about differences is actually what grownups do ya know.mathinc
- Your entire political stance is a libertarian fantasy.DrBombay
- haha okay.mathinc
- What country has it worked in? None? Ok let's move on.DrBombay
- Seriously man if you're too afraid to call me then.. I don't know.mathinc
- You're actually living in the country that it worked in. This new abomination of government however...mathinc
- You do know that taxes are a relatively new thing right? See all the things I can teach you.. if you only called. :*(mathinc
- if doc doesnt care about money my fund is waiting. act on what you are saying, quit with the lip service********
- You mean back in the day when we had slaves and shit, wtf was this country libertarian?DrBombay
- ukit0
- 300,000,000 American citizens and the best that MN could do was this guy. That's pretty darned funny.********
- Yes, 300,000,000 American citizens and just 2 Senators for MN and they pick Franken?********
- what do you disagree with, please be specific, moron.DrBombay
- I think Sen Al Franken is smart, I'd vote for him for President any day.fooler2
- 300,000,000 American citizens and the best that MN could do was this guy. That's pretty darned funny.
- DrBombay0
The unemployment benefit extensions are a MAJOR cash drain on state and federal funds, right? Bigger than any medical expenses. Should they be stopped? I mean they are all just lazy fucking freeloaders, right?
- Pretty much, yes.********
- I would love to cave your head in with a bat.DrBombay
- And you forgot your insurance card at home and were denied medical care.DrBombay
- well then he would sue your ass, take your assets and you could get raped in prison for use of force********
- hopefully u have some cash to cover medical expense or thats jsut bum luck********
- Rick doesn't have assets, he has ideals.mathinc
- Nice how you pal up with the anonymous guys yet again Tommy.DrBombay
- yeah, tommy... pal up w/me, man.PonyBoy
- *pals up with Pony!mathinc
- Pretty much, yes.