Politics
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- Khurram0
^ That's true. One of the more deceptive arguments the "paper business" have made is that without them there woudl be no news. I don't know how true that is - but they do insist that they also fund local newspapers which are the ground level from where the news industry further up the hierarchy leeches from. Again, i don't know the validity of this argument.
Still, as a hypotethical, raf's hysterical reaction to proposed tax breaks akin to totalitarianiasm - what...the...fuck... as well as you going on about making the internet profitable for news - which no one has yet achieved.
In fact, i would say, even the TV news industry is under threat from the internet - as is TV overall, but then let's not get lost in THAT argument.
- They're not just tax breaks. They come with a restructurisation.
raf - really, and do you know what this "restructurisation" entails?Khurram
- Also, this is just the first mention, Obama throws stuff out there to see the reaction. It's important to protest loud.raf
- Protest hysterically! I see your strategy now... I GET IT. Fucking Nazi!Khurram
- You coming for drinks Thursday? :)raf
- sure, who else is going?Khurram
- ribit, I think Horp, possibly moth.. fariska canceled.raf
- i'll come! where is it?Khurram
- that's the next big question.. I don't know the area, will look for ribit at the lecture :)raf
- They're not just tax breaks. They come with a restructurisation.
- Khurram0
The internet has changed everything! ZOMG!
- Khurram0
Rafal, you know, i think you're an intelligent guy in your own way. But you know i don't think there are any absolutes "truths" in this world. I think its time to grow out of "dogmatism" - not retrench in them any further.
I know for a lot of people, their identity is too closely intertwined with their politics to do this, so it is a difficult step...
You seem to suggest, in your slightly slippery arguments that, in a fully perfect market system of no governments just markets - some kind of paradise would be produced. I.E, the free market will naturally produce the most excellent independent free thinking journalists because the market is so morally good.
Now i don't know where you base that optimism on. History certainly doesn't show this. Otherwise, the perfect free market would be the defacto system all across the world, and even its biggest champion (the US) has had to me critical sacrificies of this ideal at expedient times.
You should have a more "nuanced" pragmatic outlook to the world. Like the buddah said: "Follow those who seek the truth, run away from those who claim to have found it."
:D XXXXXXX :D
LOVE YOU *mwah*
- Khurram0
I only say this, cos i'm sure you started out with admirable ideals. Where your love for humanity brought about your political views. But there's a danger that your love for your political views have become more important to you than humanity.
I think your hated Communists could be placed in a similar boat. Sure they started out with a love for the working man, but ended up loving the ideology more than they loved people.
That's sad :'(
- johndiggity0
news has become personal. why pay for a newspaper that has a sports page in it when you don't care about sports? why watch news you don't care about, when you can create your own news feeds?
news that is successful today is niche and nuanced. people, as evidenced quite clearly in this discussion, want news that reflects their viewpoint. i think the idea of one reporter breaking a story has been antiquated by the countless amount of viewpoints we have at our disposal. don't like what one pundit says? you can find one who is telling the story the way you want to hear it. regardless of what your view is on fox news, you cannot deny they have been able to develop one of the strongest and most commercially valuable news brands out there.
and this is what the future is going to be. much like you define yourself with the brands you buy, you will define yourself with the brand of news you get your information from. rush limbaugh is a brand as much as coke or pepsi is.
given this, how would it look for any government administration to start bailing out a media outlet?
- You stopped making sense when you equated pundits with news.DrBombay
- that's pretty much what it has become. talking heads. just news is boring.johndiggity
- You are talking about political commentary/opinion.DrBombay
- That isn't news. telling the world 20 men died in Iraq today is news.DrBombay
- Telling them we need more men there is commentary.DrBombay
- my point is the two are no longer separable, a la 24hr news channels.johndiggity
- ukit0
What are the bloggers and the sites like Huffington Post, Drudge Report etc going to write about when the news services go under? 90% of the material on those sites is links to stories by the AP or NYT. Even when they write an opinion piece, it's based on stories from the old media.
- BattleAxe0
"That seems like an odd way to characterize things. First, it seems odd to lump the medium in with a certain type of reporting. There are plenty of "real reporters" who do plenty of "serious fact-checking" within the blog world too. Blogs are just a publishing medium. Yes, because there's a lower barrier to entry, you do end up with a much larger absolute number of bloggers, many of whom are just giving opinion. But the idea that there aren't blogging reporters is pure folly. In fact, I'd argue that the serious blogs on certain subjects to a lot more to "put stories in context" than your average newspaper reporter, who writes up a quick take and moves on to the next big thing. Topic-specific blogs are often much more accurate, much more detailed, and much more willing to focus on context than newspaper reporting. So why rescue one bunch of reporters, just because they happen to print on paper?"
http://techdirt.com/articles/200…
- ukit0
^ I disagree, name one major news story broken by a blogger.
- I agree with ukit's disagreementTheBlueOne
- that plane landing in that river/bay whatever. the heroic pilot one
********
- and if there is a demand for news it will be provided, demand for fact check u will see it.********
- That was an event, mostly covered by twitter. Not a news storyTheBlueOne
- Right, an event happening like that doesn't have as much leeway for opinion.DrBombay
- u said major news story i believe that fit that criteria.********
- and if its opinion u want im sure u can read the comments about it. hero no hero********
- ukit0
The delivery mechanism doesn't matter, but at some point you need boots on the ground to actually go out and report the story. Otherwise all you are doing is receiving the press release in your inbox and writing your opinion on it.
Despite what you might think, there really aren't any blogs that employ reporters. Huffington Post is starting to, but having one guy go to the White House Press Briefing doesn't really count.
- if theirs a demand for boots u will find it fullfilled********
- if theirs a demand for boots u will find it fullfilled
- TheBlueOne0
If I may...another podcast relevant to this news discussion:
- BattleAxe0
somehow this turned into blogger vs reporter when it is really about the news reaching you on the web or on paper, how many breaking stories have you read on the paper vs the web
- Then twitter rules.TheBlueOne
- ...or QBN...TheBlueOne
- The paper is going to go away it is inevitable.DrBombay
- ukit0
Well right but the issue is news organizations bleeding money...whether they are web or print based.
Print is how they used to make their money (specifically ads and classifieds). None of the traditional news organizations, as far as I know, have figured out how to turn a profit off their websites.
Blogs on the other hand are making money on the web - but that's because they don't have the real world costs associated with news organizations. They can simply reprint a story from the NYT.
- Craigslist is somewhat responsible for the death of newspapers.DrBombay
- Absolutelyukit
- The internet in General really. I remember the newspaper want ads being the place to look for a job.DrBombay
- Not anymore.
DrBombay - Yeah...true about craigslist drying up a major revenue stream for papers..TheBlueOne
- Classifieds seriously were the lifeblood of papers in years gone past.DrBombay
- TheBlueOne0
How many bloggers, or blogging collectives have the funds and infrastructure to really do investigative reporting? I think part of it is simply scale. In the golden age of journalism you could spend time and money to sit a reporter on a story, have them develop resources & connections, etc. Bloggers can't do that, they (as of yet) don't have the resources. Bloggers also have the impression of being biased, giving the medium. While I think the case for journalism being "objective" has been sold up the river (and in special thanks to corporate ownership in the place of private ownership of papers & news media).
Journalism is broken all over the place. It's as much perception of the medium as it is the practice.
Hopefully it'll shake out though, we're still at the beginning of this internet thing...
- TMZ has mad cashzenmasterfoo
- yeah, but are they investigating healthcare or the war in afghanistan, for e.g.?TheBlueOne
- They did break Michael Jackson's deathukit
- true, true.TheBlueOne
- TheBlueOne0
Another thing also overlooked in this discussion is how badly the finances of so many publications got fucked up. So many papers were bought up as investments in the last decade or so, and usually bought with lots of leverage. As the model started to dry up, because these were seen as investment vehicles, things were cut to save the bottom line and not necessarily serve the interest of informing the public. Newspapers are a victim of the current financial/leverage mindset as any other industry at the moment.
- ukit0
This idea of news reorganizing as non profits is actually a pretty interesting one. The argument that they will somehow become more corrupt if they *aren't trying to make money - not sure I buy that.
Compare NPR, PBS and the BBC
to Fox News MSNBC and CNN
Which of those two would you say delivers more serious, responsible, unbiased journalism?
- Well according to viewers of the 2nd, the first group is the worst thing in the worldTheBlueOne
- not sure but non profits are largly more corrupt then not, in that the board makes easy money playing the system********
- DrBombay0
I was pretty bummed to learn that Charlie Gibson will be retiring soon.
People think that the cable "news" networks are news. I disagree entirely. If you watch the ABC nightly news and then put on Shepherd Smith you can totally see the difference, ABC reports news stories with little to no spin or bias, while Fox (and CNN, MSNBC and all of their child channels) has to end every segment with some asshole's opinion on the story.
You constantly hear people berating and bitching and moaning about the Mainstream Media, I think the problem is the pundits.
Another thought; not every single story/issue has two equal "sides". The world just doesn't work that way.
- Yeah, cable news is more opinion than fact for sure.TheBlueOne
- I only watch Fox News for the comedy ... its a non-stop parade of hilarity.Ramanisky2
- I dont TBO.. Olbermann & Maddow present solid facts rather than opinions . IMHORamanisky2
- Well, they're more factual, but their style is very pundit-y too. Especially Keith IMHO.TheBlueOne
- Ram, You never see Fox calling MSNBC out about innaccuracies, that is for sure.DrBombay
- But MSNBC is starting to look more and more like Fox all the time.DrBombay
- Yeah, but MSNBC DOES have a bias, and it's a bias chosen by marketing to catch that market share that Fox doesn't have.TheBlueOne
- It's not necessarily driven by reporting facts per se.TheBlueOne
- Right,GE owns NBC and GE is the largest defense contractor on earth.DrBombay
- Real liberal...DrBombay
- I just love a good ole bitch slap of all those Shmohawks on FOX NEWS.. its quite entertainingRamanisky2
- GE is kinda 1955 capitalism liberal. Pre hippies.TheBlueOne
- TheBlueOne0
"Another thought; not every single story/issue has two equal "sides". The world just doesn't work that way. " Exactly. This is basically every news story I watch, until i throw a shoe at the TV:
"John, you're there in Spokane, what do you have to say about this whole 'gravity' story?"
"Well Marisa, I'm here in Spokane Washington with the head of 'Concerned Citizens for the Truth About Gravity' Robert Graggin. Robert, what does your group have to say about this very serious gravity issue we're all dealing with here in America?"
"Well, John, we all know that every American deals with gravity everyday. It's important for us to get the message out that gravity, in fact, a government plot. It's part of a vast conspiracy of internationalist One World government organizations to keep people tied to the earth. Gravity can be counter acted with a kit our organization provides for a nominal donation."
"I see, thank you John. There you have it Marisa, Gravity isn't as simple as it appears on it's surface. We have to be able to have an open mind about this and see both sides of the issue - is gravity a fundamental principle of the physical universe, or is it part of a man made sinister plot to control mankind. A thorny question that we will be exploring as the week goes on. This is John Monotone, Spokane Washington."
- ukit0
I'm dreaming here, but can you imagine how different the current political arguments would be if you replace the current networks with a serious, PBS/ BBC type approach?
All these crazy people chanting at the rallies don't come up with their opinions themselves. It's pretty much a result of watching cable news.
- You are absolutely right.DrBombay
- Yeah it would look more like TV in say 1962TheBlueOne
- I love Frontline on PBSRamanisky2
- DrBombay0
9000 bitches!
- raf0
9000SFA