Politics
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- ukit0
You have to admit, if Obama did half the things Bush has done in terms of spending, deficits, bank nationalization etc., the right would be screaming bloody murder and saying we were living under a communist dictatorship.
- you mean were not living under communism now? ;)********
- And rightfully so. I still don't understand why more people aren't really pissed about the bank nationalization.tommyo
- that is what william buckley's son said.monkeyshine
- you mean were not living under communism now? ;)
- ukit0
I still say that the neoconservative philosophy pushed by McCain is much more radical than Obama's economic policy. In many way this election is a referendum on neoconservatism vs. traditional foreign policy realism, which is why you see the centrist conservatives like Powell siding with Obama.
- Wasn't Bubba awfully centrist for being a Democrat?********
- you wouldnt have known it listening to blowhards like yourself.DrBombay
- Actually, I never crucified Clinton. That's what scares me about Obama. Left of the lefties.********
- umm, yes you have.DrBombay
- "eferendum on neoconservatism vs. traditional foreign policy realism" Bravo.TheBlueOne
- Bubba? Noooo.. he was such an @ss kisser. Moderate conservatives loved him until Monica Lewinsky scandal.********
- you act like you just came to this site, I have been listening to your shit for years, alex.DrBombay
- you cannot possible remember every political post, including Clinton comments********
- Wasn't Bubba awfully centrist for being a Democrat?
- Greedo0
Just to refute a jazzieboy point from earlier, about finland being an 'unhappy' country, cause, you know, they're socialists and all:
Finland consistently shows up in the top 20 of 'happy' countries:
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_re…
http://futurist.typepad.com/.a/6…
http://futurist.typepad.com/my_w…
http://www.unicef.org/media/file…- Bah! That's not what my friends there acted like. Sheeyiit! Go ask a Fin.********
- i was there last year and they seemed perfectly well adjusted... and very blond and pretty, tooGreedo
- blonde and pretty, no doubt. They all live in these governmental compartments. it's scary man.********
- Bah! That's not what my friends there acted like. Sheeyiit! Go ask a Fin.
- TheBlueOne0
I like Obama. But fuck, I like McCain as well. Personally speaking. I'm not voting on who I'd like to have a beer with. Quite frankly neither one of them would be able to implement whatever economic policy they are spouting right now to get elected. The problems upon us and coming down the barrel are too huge. The context will dictate the choices, and the choices will be pretty stark. All things being equal, if we could run a simulation and look at a potential Obama or McCain administration four years out, I think economically they'd be in pretty similar places. The facts on the ground just dictate the real actions they could implement. I would expect some more fiscal responsibility from McCain than Bush has had - if for some reason the McCain of 2000 was running and not this weird Neo-con Zombie McCain that's running now. I expect fiscal responsibility from Obama as well. I think he has run a stunning campaign, and I say that as a political fanboy and not as an Obama koolaid drinker.
I said it before and I'll say it again, I think Obama is going to disappoint as many on the progressive left as he seems to create boogie-man nightmares for those on the right. He's going to have to use alot of his political capital to navigate those waters. Obama is a typical fucking 20th century keynsian centrist. He's not a socialist. He's not economically progressive.
I'm voting for him for the sole fact that he has been able to interest an entire generation in politics, and in a positive manner. I hope all those that make an Obama administration possible remain engaged in government like they actually give a fuck about this country. I want the government to be forced to respond to the will of the people because the people actually give a shit and are engaged. That's what Obama is bringing in with him, and it might bring him down as well. But I think the US can only benefit.
- antares0
does anyone know if this obama infomercial will be broadcast online?
- DrBombay0
I think JazX should change hs name to The Back Pedaler...
- you know he's a hippy, he makes electronic music.robotron3k
- I'm not Back Pedaling whatsoever. Obama is the leftist of the left. No vote from me whatsoever.********
- mccain thought the economy was strong 3 days before the bottom dropped out. He's your guy!DrBombay
- Pfft Kucinich is a true lefty...Greedo
- or Barack Pedalerdbloc
- LOL********
- Rick, he said the 'fundamentals' are strong. You soundbiter you.tommyo
- he was wrong about that too.DrBombay
- ********0
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/20…
5 more days! Glorious...
- dude, you do know that Bush's term ends on January 20, 2009********
- bush his term already ended a while ago i guess..he is really invisible at the moment...tank02
- No, he's still got one more thing to do...catch Bin Laden!!! YAY GO BUSH!! GET R DONE!tommyo
- ha. yeh he's been saving that one.lackofcolor
- he's got pardons to issue as well, don't forget.********
- Wonder if he'll pardon Stevens.BusterBoy
- dude, you do know that Bush's term ends on January 20, 2009
- TheBlueOne0
I guess what I'm saying is that JazX and I might have some fundamentally differing viewpoints on some things. I know TommyO and I probably do. Me and DocBombay might as well on other things. And hell, it's fun to play politics and hurl the talking points and the little gotchas around. It's politics as sports, and Americans are good at that and we respond to that framing.
But come on, really, like sports - how much of what the talking heads on TV spout and what gets considered "newsworthy", what gets glitzed up and marketed to sell soda really reflect anything approaching the reality of actually playing sports? If you've played sports with any commitment you know the hours, the lonleyness, the pain, the locker room, the whores of defeat and victory...that has nothign to do with what the media sells.
Poltics is exactly the same in the US. And it's ok, as long as you know the distinction is there and that it's very real. Sometime we need a bit of the myth and the story to motivate us to do all that hard crappy work for a bit of fleeting glory and maybe the greater good.
I just get pissed when the the talking points and crap become the thing in itself which is just smoke and mirrors. That's where game-playing becomes self-delusion. Look you want to call Obama a "socialist"? I get it within the context of playing the game of politics. You want to call Bush "Hitler", same deal...but when it comes to really dealing with the problems that face a country that I love deeply, these freeze-dried media memes they sell cut rate on Fox and MSNBC become useless at best, harmful at worst by becoming the defining parameters of the debate.
Alright, I'm done being a didactic prick today...
- +1********
- didactic prick...DrBombay
- Haha! I had an intern once and she said to me "Bri, I learned a lot, but you can really be a didactic prick sometimes.."TheBlueOne
- ...so I try to tone it down. Can't help it. Maybe, cause I'm a Leo?TheBlueOne
- ba ha ha, hey you can preach if you want to, there's no way we'll all agree.********
- I'm an A-type, Taurus born in the year of Chinese Bull. How f*cking crazy am I?********
- I actually disagree with everything you say TBO, even when you say words like 'the' and 'if.' You're an inflammatorytommyo
- didactic prick and I think your opinions are nutty to say the least, if not un-American and terrorist pandering. :Ptommyo
- +1
- robotron3k0
One thing is for sure, if Obama does win he WILL have be considered the greatest politician ever.
- Um, no. He's got a looong way to go for that..TheBlueOne
- Maybe one of the best campaigners in US presidential history...TheBlueOne
- No, he will have to be considered the greatest ever. He will have beaten the very best of the establishment.robotron3k
- He got 4000 people from ALL OVER THE WORLD in PA right now ringing doorbells...robotron3k
- You're headed for a real bi-polar 4 years man. You're at the high point now. Let's see how he actually does okay?tommyo
- That's the key. How many of the promises come true? Goes for them all I suppose.********
- after the last 8 years .... shiiiiitttt
Obama will do just fineRamanisky2 - You do know that the President doesn't actually make laws right? Bush is still an idiot, but it doesn't all stem from the top.tommyo
- ********0
I will give this to JazX, he's been one of the most rational contributors to this thread, aside from me of course.
- ********0
As previously stated, I went on record saying that I think Obama will probably win. Will it be a lot closer than what Democrats want, probably. I still think it's going to come down to a few purple states (OH, PA or CO, possible FL).
IMO, not so much that BO's qualified, because let's face it, he has much less experience than McCain. Does his looks, tongue, intellect, and youthful exhuberance have something to do with it. Probably, and he reminds people of JFK, and we all know that he's been politically canonized.
I fail to see the media, which whether you admit it or not leans towards the Democrats, helping matters. I haven't seen too many investigative reports on Obama and even five days away know little about him. The media's darling, yes and that makes me wonder. Attacks on McCain's campaign, much more. I mean who honestly cares about Sarah Palin's wardrobe? Is that news worthy? Assuming that Obama will crush McCain based upon these polls is a mistake. That's the worst mistake the Democrats could make and BO knows it. You've seen that in the past. I'll stick with my Jimmy Carter analogy for BO, the Republicans cannot simply have their cake and eat it too over a period of 12 years. I'm surprised that GHB won after Reagan, but then again, Reagan won by landslides.
- +100********
- http://en.wikipedia.…********
- Did you see the Frontline special, JazX? It went into depth on both BO and McCain.monkeyshine
- Nope. But you'll remember, SPECIFICALLY, that I said I thought it was never healthy to have one party in too long.********
- I believe, your words were, I can't believe I'm agreeing with JazX, but...********
- +100
- ********0
The Flagstaff Republican Women opened a temporary office in late September on behalf of the McCain campaign, which they said they will man every day until the election.
- GeorgesII0
the cheezy end kills the plot, but still interresting
- monkeyshine0
For those of you who missed the Frontline Choice 2008 documentary, it's very good and goes into the paths of both Obama and McCain.
You can watch it online:- PBS would be a group I would trust, they don't seem like they lean towards any one side.********
- Yeah, that was really excellentukit
- It's true, J. I worked for them for awhile...they really strive to be neutral.monkeyshine
- That's a great thing. Plus, a lot of their money comes from conservatives. ;) hee hee********
- McNeil Leher Newshour is the only news I really pay attention to...
http://www.pbs.org/n…TheBlueOne
- PBS would be a group I would trust, they don't seem like they lean towards any one side.
- ********0
Three officials, more than any others, have been responsible for preventing effective regulatory action over a period of years: Alan Greenspan, the oracular former Fed chairman; Phil Gramm, the heartless former chairman of the Senate banking committee; and Christopher Cox, the unapologetic chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission. Blame Greenspan for making the case that the exploding trade in derivatives was a benign way of hedging against risk. Blame Gramm for making sure derivatives weren't covered by the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, a bill he shepherded through Congress in 2000. Blame Cox for championing Bush's policy of "voluntary" regulation of investment banks at the SEC.
- http://www.slate.com…********
- The worst thing you can say about libertarians is that they are intellectually immature, frozen in the worldview many of them absorbed from reading Ayn Rand novels in high school. Like other ideologues, libertarians react to the world's failing to conform to their model by asking where the world went wrong.********
- Like other ideologues, libertarians react to the world's failing to conform to their model by asking where the world went wrong.********
- Pretty narrow assessment especially seeing as Libertarians generally subscribe to the Austrian school oftommyo
- economics, which has been predicting exactly what we're going through now and has warned about the involvementtommyo
- of the Fed's manipulation for decades and decades. Stop relying on steroetypes to form your opinions.tommyo
- It's as stupid as a Republican saying that all Democrats want to do is give money to the poor. Shallow logic sir, shallow logic.tommyo
- the faultless market was not free enough?********
- and predicting something for 60 years tends to increase the odds of it happening.********
- “the Austrian school have reached far into the future from when most of them practiced and have had a profound and, in my judgment, probably an irreversible effect on how most mainstream economists think in this country.”********
- and, in my judgment, probably an irreversible effect on how most mainstream economists think in this country.”********
- Alan "sink the fucking ship" Greenspan ( "I sucked Ayn rand's toe all the way to mexico")********
- I consider myself more a Libertarian than Republican actually. You're blaming Libertarians?********
- Capsize is a nutbag. Greenspans whole career was anti-Austrian school you loon.tommyo
- Yeah, I'm a little confused about the Greenspan connection.********
- ask him it's his quote.********
- http://www.slate.com…
- turk_1820
Anyone have a link to the latest B. Obama Ad? I'm talking about the one with zero talking - all white background... and beautiful type (gotham I believe)... the type rotates in on the y axis...
... more importantly - it's about getting out to vote - asking for time off from the boss, the professor etc...
... was done well as far as motion / type / delivery / sound - I wanted to share with a client... help!!