Politics
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- ********0
However his goal would be accomplished, it would not be implemented as described by his campaign. The plan he has outlined sounds good politically but is ultimately imprecise and illogical.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/res…
- ********0
Mussolini’s corporate state “consider[ed] private initiative in production the most effective instrument to protect national interests” (Basch 1937, p. 97). But the meaning of “initiative” differed significantly from its meaning in a market economy. Labor and management were organized into twenty-two industry and trade “corporations,” each with Fascist Party members as senior participants. The corporations were consolidated into a National Council of Corporations; however, the real decisions were made by state agencies such as the Instituto per la Ricosstruzione Industriale, which held shares in industrial, agricultural, and real estate enterprises, and the Instituto Mobiliare, which controlled the nation’s credit.
- ukit0
If we are gonna throw names around and take things to ridiculous extremes, can we call McCain, who wants to invade and occupy countries for hundreds of years, a fascist imperialist? What's worse, socialism or fascism?
- out of context?********
- Yeah I don't believe that's what he said. I'm not for McCain but let's all be honest here.tommyo
- and the "spread the wealth" was not out of context??SigDesign
- Obama said that out in the open, it was pretty much the entirety of what he did say.tommyo
- Obama blatantly said it ukit. Where have you been dude?********
- McCain said out in the open that he would stay in Iraq for hundreds of years. He also said he would bomb Iran. Point ukit.jasontroj
- out of context?
- GeorgesII0
I think jazx isn't real,
he reminds me of hedge/llyoid, the exact same technics to get us talking into the wind,
he has no real points but works hard to prove he has one.
what is socialism? he has no clue never lived in a socialist country, he enjoys pulling words like marxism (I guess the 700billion bailout isn't socialism...) out of his ass and thinks he impresses us.I'm sorry to say that, I wish McCain wins so you can enjoy your free market illusion.
either if Obama or McCain win, the economic crash will happen, If you wish to have a president that has proved he can't even run his campaign right and is producing the most negative waste of advertising time ever. go hahead,
I said it, I'm not american but I wish to see your country take back its role as a world leader in technology, innovation and "peace".
If you want to continue on the path of failure jazx, its fine with me, but please, I said please stop using stupid nonsense GOP talking points
- actually, I lived in Helsinki, Finland for 1.5 years. so... path of failure?********
- I'm not hedge or loyd. LOL, there are more than 3 people in the world that disagree with this mass********
- actually, I lived in Helsinki, Finland for 1.5 years. so... path of failure?
- ukit0
HAHA I'm just pointing out the silliness of using words like that....but seriously, wouldn't the people who founded this country be shocked to find us in Iraq and hundreds of other countries with a military presense? Isn't that more radical than having a progressive tax system?
- Yeah man I am definitely 100% against the empire building / occupation stuff. I think we need to get out of other countries.tommyo
- Radical? I'm not sure the founding fathers were in any way thinking "Imperialism" at a that point. Diff. argument********
- GeorgesII0
excuse me, without looking at wikipedia
what is fascism?
the government gives the control of the industry to key corporation (hmmm sounds familliar), those corporation helped my those in power redistribute the wealth to the few controlling famillies and bankers (hmmm sounds familliar), the people are opressed and given fewer and fewer rights to discent and voices their disappointement with the way their country goes (sounds even more familliar)now lets see which of the two candidates has a closer view to what "my" understanding of fascism is.
my dad was a diplomat so I got to travel and see from the first experience many social/economic systems. I can tell you first hand that using words like socialism without understanding the real meaning behind it and excusing a joke of a candidate as the best solution is even more dangerous than going socialist.
when something doesn't work you have to try soemthing else. can someone right or left of the spectrum tells me what good has those past 8 years been for him.thank you
- ********0
GeorgesII, since you're calling me out and from Italy. Mussolini was a fascist no? I do believe he was Italian. Also, how is Silvio Berlusconi doing these days? Imprisoned yet?
- and as for your socialism comments, Finland, where I lived for over a year, is very socialistic. people unhappy.********
- silvio is in a league of his own. the slimey fat prick :)lowimpakt
- I mean, exactly, I can't even believe that guy is there. He makes Bush like like an angel.********
- and as for your socialism comments, Finland, where I lived for over a year, is very socialistic. people unhappy.
- GeorgesII0
stop stop stop using wikipedia please,
use your brain and your own perspective on things,
I moved to italy 3 years ago, I guess that makes me fascist.
when I'll have the right to vote I'll make sure to vote for berlusconi so he can continue on his own path to perdition.so he and the newly elected president McCain can hold hands and fight evildoers like batman and robin
- Wikipedia? Buddy, no offense, Berlusconi is the dirtiest dog in any "first world country". Yikes...********
- but does that makes me italian?
your point is lost so is your brainGeorgesII - What?********
- Wikipedia? Buddy, no offense, Berlusconi is the dirtiest dog in any "first world country". Yikes...
- TheBlueOne0
Look, I guess I'm in the minority here with an actual degree in political science. These fucking talking points about "tax and spend" "socialist" etc..that the media blares out and propaganda apologists on both sides pick up and use as weapons like they mean anything is a fucking joke. This is all political gamesmanhip - that's all it is, yet some of you seem to think it's in some way connected to the reality of business or governing.
Obama is not a fucking socialist. No American president has been or will ever be a fucking socialist. Compared to actual socialists, our Presidents, including potentially Obama, look like Ayn Rand on a crack bender.
And the Republicans wave around the "lower taxes!" banner like it's a goddamn banner and represents some sort of principled stand in a vacuum.
Look, governments tax. That's how they govern. If you notice the issue with the US Revolution wasn't "No Taxation!" it was "No taxation without representation" (or is that sounding, you know like "socialist talk" JazX?)
Look - tax policy is a function of government. You tax some things to discourage them and you sibsidize other things to encourage them. Period. That's it. There are trade-offs with the application of these tools. People argue because they don't won't to be on the perceived loser end of these tools at any given time.
And these things depend on what the society values. You want clean drinking water, you want good infrastructure, a criminal justice system and a system of courts to enforce the smooth running of corporations, you pay for it. And so on and so forth. The questions about the social issues are tricky because hwere does the individual benefit begin and end. It's an ever shifting point to aim at. You know, funding a universal healthcare system might create a more general healthy population - less disease, better nutrition, etc - that lifts all boats, but maybe not your boat as high as you were on your own. Having a policy to keep people out of abject poverty - especially children and the elderly might be a contextual good as well. Maybe the government subsidizing a huge scientific project to go to the moon or invent a nuclear bomb is good as well. That might change given the resources available to the society as a whole. And the tax and subsidy policy should and would change in response.
I just hate this kneejerk nonsense the American Neo-Con Right spews out about "Government is the problem!" for decades now. You know, sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't, and to stick to such ridiculously stupid narrow arguments is just asinine. What is a big fucking problem is BAD government, which you might notice we've had for the most part lately.
Do I, or does anyone, want anyone to get something for free from the government? Of course not. We all bristle at it. But we seem to get far more upset when poor people seem to get a slightly better shake than say the defense contractor or the huge agribusinesses that receive subsidies up the wazoo to either rnore grow anythign or not grow things that our domestic market really needs.
Ah forget it..this just gets me frustrated...because the loudest people in the room start shouting "SOCIALIST!! DON'T USE THEM BUG WORDS AND PLANS..." It's fucking pointless. The US has had operated with socialist policies for over a hundred years now..either deal with the fact and argue your point based on that reality and the competing interests and benefits that represents or continue with the "SOCIALIST IZ BADZ! THEY STEALZ MY MONEYZ!" argument.
Reap, sow. As someone pretty sharp in the Nixon administration once said , "Things that can't last, won't."
- In no way TBO, was I attempting to challenge your PolySci degree, etc. Of course taxes are needed, I'm not********
- saying that, however, I don't want them to kill my business or me in the next two. #1 reason I'm anti-Obama.********
- Government is the problem! :Ptommyo
- Fantastic post. + at least 17.killthefish
- JazX - I call bullshit on what you just said. If it's true, then stopping saying he's a socialist.killthefish
- you have no business, you spend your fuckn day hereGeorgesII
- TBO is a smart dude...a little too 'terrorist-liberal' for my tastes but still a smart dude. hehe :Ptommyo
- jazx, to coin a phrase the kiddies use, you got pwnedDrBombay
- I was being a bit facetious, I'll admit, but he scares me when he talks that way. Not exactly a smart tactic, if you ask me.********
- DrBombay, go loose another username. Didn't JK block your IP Address yet?********
- TBO, do you think that under Obama the government will get larger or smaller?********
- To quote Norman Mailer, you can call me a godforsaken radical, but don't ever call me a liberal.TheBlueOne
- Touche!tommyo
- JazX: How about defining "larger" government?killthefish
- bush's government is larger than clinton's, you should be running around with your fucking hair on fire!DrBombay
- I know. I don't like the fact that Bushie has this huge government.********
- In no way TBO, was I attempting to challenge your PolySci degree, etc. Of course taxes are needed, I'm not
- ********0
Bogus Election Fliers Probed in Hampton Roads
Associated Press
Tuesday, October 28, 2008; 11:06 AM
Virginia elections officials said fliers are making the rounds in several Hampton Roads localities attempting to confuse voters.The fliers advise Republicans to vote on Nov. 4, and Democrats on Nov. 5.
Election Day for everyone, of course, is Nov. 4.
The bogus advisory features the logo of the State Board of Elections and states the two voting dates are intended to ease the load on local balloting officials.
State police are looking into the source of the fliers.
- GeorgesII0
divide and conquer
- ********0
- +1000000000000000
excellentGeorgesII - wow.killthefish
- Ha!robotron3k
- +1000000000000000
- jasontroj0
Dear QBN,
If any thread has proven that a block feature would be beneficial, I believe it is this one. Granted hearing both sides of the story; especially with politics, is a good thing, I can no longer take some of the racist and extremist horse shit that is being left upon these pages. I standby this site as one of my favorite places to read news and converse with like minded individuals, but when it is offensive or controversial just for the sake of calling attention to one's self there needs to be a barrier.
Please install a barrier called "block feature."
-Calcium
- TheBlueOne0
"I don't want them to kill my business or me in the next two. #1 reason I'm anti-Obama."
Fine. No one wants a regressive tax policy that inhibits business growth in the US, small or otherwise.
But face facts, the tax policy in this country will NEVER be that regressive. Ever. This country will ALWAYS promote businesses. Tax issues are hardly an impediment to doing business in the US. You want to know what kills businesses? It's not governments tax policies per se, it's lobbies for other business interests that might run counter to yours that use their influence and pull to use the instruments of government policy to shut you down.
Get rid of the power of lobbies, especially of the corporate big business kind. Alot of the Tax code is written by these guys.
There are far more serious issues going down with the health of our country that would effect the success of your business than whether Obama is going to return to tax rates similar to those of ten, twenty years ago...I mean it's not like Microsoft or Google were unable to grow because of similar tax rates...
- You sound like Ross Perot. ;)********
- http://allfinancialm…********
- You sound like Ross Perot. ;)
- DrBombay0
I didn't realize the beat loop business was so lucrative...
- ********0
For me, it's all about the service industry. Since my father was let go by the Steel industry almost 30 years ago. He's gone in a different direction. I market and help him run the business side company. Implement LEAN and GoGreen initiatives. Software tracking system, etc.
I'm not sh*tting you when I say I employ immigrants, both Latino and Eastern European. I set them up with work visa's and on the path to an official Green Card through a lawyer friend of mine.
I'm cheap though, I don't live as lucrative as I could.
- Go ahead and judge me. A lot of the things that I've done are sterotypical Liberal.********
- Some are H2B's and then I help them along their way http://www.workpermi… some illegals who need help********
- Keep living cheap. It's better for you. No matte rhow much you make.TheBlueOne
- how does employing immigrants say anything about your political views?DrBombay
- It doesn't. You just find a lot of support on the Liberal side for allowing these types to gain eventual citizenship.********
- The guys that work for me, a good ten of them, are hard-wroking and are good guys, they just need to be legit.********
- funny that you are surprised...DrBombay
- Surprised, you have to be, or at least skeptical in business. They do steal from clients though. I have bonding.********
- Go ahead and judge me. A lot of the things that I've done are sterotypical Liberal.
- ukit0
Just curious JazX, how would a temporary worker / path to citizenship program affect your business, if at all?
- oh, I'm ok with it. it needs to be regulated, no doubt, but I'm for the program, obviously. I can afford average american********
- cannot afford, sorry********
- oh, I'm ok with it. it needs to be regulated, no doubt, but I'm for the program, obviously. I can afford average american
- TheBlueOne0
"TBO, do you think that under Obama the government will get larger or smaller?
- JazX"Beats me. And are you equating "big government" with bad and "small government" with good? Look, big government is good for some things and real shitty for others. I think what we want to ideally strive for in our society, and this might be a strength of democracy (if it works well), is to have quick transitions between big and small eras of government based on historical contexts. Look - need to fight a giant fucking war, build massive infrastructure, etc.? Well, you need big, smart government to do it. It's simple. It's a matter of scale. If you understand business, you understand that you can do some things when you are big better than when you are small. Walmart outcompetes the local hardware store. Why? Because it's fucking big. And smart. And very responsive.
Small is great at other times. The thing to strive for is the the quicker phase transition between being "big" or "small" dependig on your needs of society. You can't spend too much time at either stage if the context requires you to be different.
Look, IMHO, under Obama, I think we WILL need big government type spending to get us through the recession - especially with infrastructure. I'm not neccessarily adverse to deficiet spending - I don't like it, but I understand it's a tool to be used. There is good debt and bad debt to incur. Look, it's smart to get a mortgage. That's good debt. It's dumb to blow $200,000 on hookers and cocaine on your credit card. The amount of money is the same, but the benfits change over time. So yeah, some good deficiet spending right now on big government projects might be neccessary to keep the economy going and keep unemployment under control.
Will we see more social spending under Obama? Probably. Good, bad? That's as much an ethical question as it is monetary policy. I know lots of people hurt by lack of access to medical care. I don't mind personally seeing some of my tax money spent for fixing that, as long as it's done smartly.
Bush Lite has wrecked the government. It's been politicized and alot of the people who actually work in it who might give an actual damn have been driven out by political appointees. You want to know what makes us more like the old Socialist Soviet Union? Making the Civil Services chocked full of political hacks and replacing the mostly unpoliticed functioning meritocracy it has been.
All of a sudden shit stopped working? I mean FEMA broke down, elections don't seem to work right, the military is fucked, the FDA isn't doing it's job...why? Because of political hacks. I want money spent on fixing this problem. I want people who are actually employed by the government to provide services to actually care about their fucking jobs and not worry if they aren't "conservative" or "liberal" enough.
Obama better change that or I'll vote his sorry ass out in 2012. If you know, the voting system still works.
- Totally agree about needing to make our gov smarter. The past couple decades have been the epitome of dumb moves.tommyo
- War in Iraq, increasing home ownership to those who can't afford it, public services like FEMA proved ineffectual. etc. etc.tommyo
- I see your point TBO. One thing's for sure, it'll be interesting to see how this pans out in the future.********