Politics
Out of context: Reply #3671
- Started
- Last post
- 33,773 Responses
- TheBlueOne0
Look, I guess I'm in the minority here with an actual degree in political science. These fucking talking points about "tax and spend" "socialist" etc..that the media blares out and propaganda apologists on both sides pick up and use as weapons like they mean anything is a fucking joke. This is all political gamesmanhip - that's all it is, yet some of you seem to think it's in some way connected to the reality of business or governing.
Obama is not a fucking socialist. No American president has been or will ever be a fucking socialist. Compared to actual socialists, our Presidents, including potentially Obama, look like Ayn Rand on a crack bender.
And the Republicans wave around the "lower taxes!" banner like it's a goddamn banner and represents some sort of principled stand in a vacuum.
Look, governments tax. That's how they govern. If you notice the issue with the US Revolution wasn't "No Taxation!" it was "No taxation without representation" (or is that sounding, you know like "socialist talk" JazX?)
Look - tax policy is a function of government. You tax some things to discourage them and you sibsidize other things to encourage them. Period. That's it. There are trade-offs with the application of these tools. People argue because they don't won't to be on the perceived loser end of these tools at any given time.
And these things depend on what the society values. You want clean drinking water, you want good infrastructure, a criminal justice system and a system of courts to enforce the smooth running of corporations, you pay for it. And so on and so forth. The questions about the social issues are tricky because hwere does the individual benefit begin and end. It's an ever shifting point to aim at. You know, funding a universal healthcare system might create a more general healthy population - less disease, better nutrition, etc - that lifts all boats, but maybe not your boat as high as you were on your own. Having a policy to keep people out of abject poverty - especially children and the elderly might be a contextual good as well. Maybe the government subsidizing a huge scientific project to go to the moon or invent a nuclear bomb is good as well. That might change given the resources available to the society as a whole. And the tax and subsidy policy should and would change in response.
I just hate this kneejerk nonsense the American Neo-Con Right spews out about "Government is the problem!" for decades now. You know, sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't, and to stick to such ridiculously stupid narrow arguments is just asinine. What is a big fucking problem is BAD government, which you might notice we've had for the most part lately.
Do I, or does anyone, want anyone to get something for free from the government? Of course not. We all bristle at it. But we seem to get far more upset when poor people seem to get a slightly better shake than say the defense contractor or the huge agribusinesses that receive subsidies up the wazoo to either rnore grow anythign or not grow things that our domestic market really needs.
Ah forget it..this just gets me frustrated...because the loudest people in the room start shouting "SOCIALIST!! DON'T USE THEM BUG WORDS AND PLANS..." It's fucking pointless. The US has had operated with socialist policies for over a hundred years now..either deal with the fact and argue your point based on that reality and the competing interests and benefits that represents or continue with the "SOCIALIST IZ BADZ! THEY STEALZ MY MONEYZ!" argument.
Reap, sow. As someone pretty sharp in the Nixon administration once said , "Things that can't last, won't."
- In no way TBO, was I attempting to challenge your PolySci degree, etc. Of course taxes are needed, I'm not********
- saying that, however, I don't want them to kill my business or me in the next two. #1 reason I'm anti-Obama.********
- Government is the problem! :Ptommyo
- Fantastic post. + at least 17.killthefish
- JazX - I call bullshit on what you just said. If it's true, then stopping saying he's a socialist.killthefish
- you have no business, you spend your fuckn day hereGeorgesII
- TBO is a smart dude...a little too 'terrorist-liberal' for my tastes but still a smart dude. hehe :Ptommyo
- jazx, to coin a phrase the kiddies use, you got pwnedDrBombay
- I was being a bit facetious, I'll admit, but he scares me when he talks that way. Not exactly a smart tactic, if you ask me.********
- DrBombay, go loose another username. Didn't JK block your IP Address yet?********
- TBO, do you think that under Obama the government will get larger or smaller?********
- To quote Norman Mailer, you can call me a godforsaken radical, but don't ever call me a liberal.TheBlueOne
- Touche!tommyo
- JazX: How about defining "larger" government?killthefish
- bush's government is larger than clinton's, you should be running around with your fucking hair on fire!DrBombay
- I know. I don't like the fact that Bushie has this huge government.********
- In no way TBO, was I attempting to challenge your PolySci degree, etc. Of course taxes are needed, I'm not