Root of all Evil
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- Baskerville0
please don't let this become the new ID thread. They're starting to piss me off something rotten.
Instead talk about design or something:
come on! the Designer of the Year nominees are out today:
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk...
both the Guardian and Jamie Hewlett are the but sadly god is not in the running this year.
now start talking design.
Baskerville
(Jan 10 06, 07:00)
- flagellum0
"Marxist ever fought for atheism, or even materialism – they fought for class and the redistribution of wealth (in whatever perverse ideology)."
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You completely miss the point, Kus. We are looking at undergirding world views which shape political ideals and movements. Not what a group is "fighting for". Rather, what is driving them, ideologically.
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"Obviously, egotistical leaders driven by subservience to a higher ideology ended up fermenting some terrible terrible tragedies."
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This demonstrates my point. The philosophies driving said leadership and the end result. And "terrible tragedies" would be an understatement.
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"The ideology that inspired the Nazi’s was the most extreme form of Nationalism. "
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Nonsense. Not at it's root. Dig deeper, kuzz. It was Social Darwinism with a throttle grip on Neitzche-esque materialism, in action. Ultimately, THIS is why jews were exterminated. Don't sugar coat what actually happened.
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"Both fascism and nationalism has absolutely nothing to do with atheism."
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Did you really write that???? Are you insane or thoroughly in denial? To divorce these notions is intellectual suicide and historical revisionism.
And I'm not talking about conflict spurred by Nationalism. I'm talking about unbridled murder which has it's ultimate roots in a philosophical world view which denies that man was created with a purpose. Atheism.
What you need, Kus is to stop trying to empathize with such a world view and it's proponents and dig into the evils which it actually causes.
- KuzIII0
Lol! Did you just give me a long list of the millions who died in the 20th century? Lol You really do make yourself look stupid on this forum, especially when you engage in an argument with me.
God, sometimes, when you come out with such blatant idiocy, I don’t know why I bother with you. Ok, ignoring the list of dead (which I already told you had to do with ancient factors such as nationalism, and the distribution of power which has little or nothing to do with atheism and materialism) – this statement:
“Again, under the banner of a totalitarianism rooted in Humanist philosophy”
How the fuck did you just conclude that? Looks like you need a history lesson. You just listed statistics of death and concluded ALL 20th century Totalitarianism was inspired by Humanism??? Wtf?? Do you have any understanding of the historical method? Did you even read the descriptions of Nazi and Communist ideology I just explained to you? What a dick.
- ********0
Does evil exist outside of human experience? Is there "evil" inherent in the natural world? Would a Gazelle call a lion "evil"?
And deception as a survival strategy is hard wired into life, so why is it such an evil concept? What if deception is evil for all the dumb people who can't figure out or want to know how sausage is made?
- flagellum0
read the whole article, Kuzz, you simple little man. :)
and read my last post.
- ********0
OK, let's assume a Craetor God ceated this whole universe..are there standards? I mean are we Universe 2.0? Did he confer with other creator gods? Are we a ripped universe? Did he just get lazy and will come back to fix the bits he left hanging just so he could get it out the door on time?
- flagellum0
eeeegads, Tick. I'm going to pretend you didn't suggest that.
- pascii0
we are fucked.
- arinya0
I knew it!!!!
- Chimp0
if god made the earth, who made god?
Chimp
(Jan 10 06, 07:03)We did (and will, or already have).
It's just a computer simualtion. When we have evolved enough, we'll make our own simulation within ours, thus we become God. This goes on and on. God is two mirrors facing one another.
determinedmoth
(Jan 10 06, 07:08)Oh, you took the red pill then. The matrix is everything! Including mirrors
- ********0
Ever done any real (psychedelic) drugs, Discipler ?
Try watching your ego collapse into a tiny wriggling silver point of nothingness, as it attempts to justify its own existence using concepts such as 'god' and 'individual'.
Given the right dose in the right setting, your ego will actually believe you are dying, and the near-death/life before eyes program kicks in...leading to a crescendo of 1000 of your own voices desperately trying to unravel the gourdian knot that is theology, ending unltimately in a desperate bargaining with 'god' against the seeming dying of the light, before 'self' disappears in a resonant squit, and one is forced, literally through the eye of the needle.
On the other side, there is no 'self' and 'nonself', there is no 'god' and 'man', as I have tried to clumsily explain, reality - rather than our ideas about it, cannot be conceptualised into 'this' and 'that', there is no such duality as 'man/universe', 'me/not me'. Higher states of mind reveal everything to be one single hyper-concious process, existing at once, in one moment, in, as, and of itself. This is truly the God within us all, this is the true nature of existence. It created eveything at one point in time, to explore and reflect itself subjectively, as conciousness, as us - god made man in his own image, the image being what we call an illusion, a reflection - the reflection of the One conciousness in the tiny mirrored pool that sits behind our eyes, the 'I', that we think we all, individually are. What looks 'out' from my eyes is the same thing that looks out from yours.
I find much of this truth in the more mystical portions of the bible, the torah, etc - once you have truly lived, and truly experienced this oneness, all religious teaching becomes clear, and much of it is reveled to be extraneous misinterpretation..
Go on, Discipler, just do a half...You'll be alright..
- pascii0
.... And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. etc etc.
u know the rest
- KuzIII0
ok, this is where you demonstrate the belligerant little cunt you are flagellate me. Taking me point by point, but saying nothing new. I did read the ENTIRE list of statistics you posted, which absolutely did nothing to refute my previous points.
"We are looking at undergirding world views which shape political ideals and movements"
YES - Listen carefully dumbass, the underlying worldviews that shaped marxism was CLASS war. It was NOT atheism. They were atheists too, by and large, but that was only in so far as they recognised organised religion perpetuating economic exploitaion of a class. LEARN WHAT I am telling you!
" The philosophies driving said leadership and the end result. And "terrible tragedies" would be an understatement."
NOT PHILOSOPHIES - IDEOLOGIES. More to the point, the despotic desire of leaders to keep power, that had nothing to do with ideology, or philosophy for that matter. Deeply religious people are despots too - are you too stupid to understand that Stalin did not need to be an atheist to enact his purges and create a paranoid state vis a vis the cult of personality? Saddam Hussein claimed to be decended from the prophet mohammed you fucking dumbass.
"Nonsense. Not at it's root. Dig deeper, kuzz. It was Social Darwinism with a throttle grip on Neitzche-esque materialism, in action. Ultimately, THIS is why jews were exterminated. Don't sugar coat what actually happened."
No, actually, this is your gross misunderstanding and the false history that you were taught trying to implicate Darwinism and Nietche. Nazis was ultra-national fascism, that combined the philosophy of blood and land. The blood of the German people, lay in the lands of the east (Russia) that were occupied by Slavs and Jews which had to be eradicated. It was about creating a pure NATION for the German people out of land that they thought were historically theirs. This is why the second world war happen. This is the same reasoning that inspires the Zionist Jews in Israel (a religious interpretation of the same blood/land ideology). Social Darwinism had a function, but it was not the guiding principle of blood and land, you dick. YOU should actually read some real history.
"Did you really write that???? Are you insane or thoroughly in denial? To divorce these notions is intellectual suicide and historical revisionism"
Yes i did write that. Sounding incredulous does not make you right. Franco, Pinochet etc... were deeply religious men who exalted the Catholic church - but at the same time were uber-Nationalist fascists. That's just one example, you dick.
"I'm talking about unbridled murder which has it's ultimate roots in a philosophical world view which denies that man was created with a purpose. Atheism."
You have not demonstrated one single example of this, other than vitriol and circumstance. You obviously dont understand the historical complexity of what you talk about.
It is so sad that not only does Chrisian evangelism cloud your understanding of Science but also of History.
- flagellum0
mikotondria,
You're right.
I think. :)
- ********0
"Neitzche-esque materialism..."
huh? I think you need to go and re-read some Nietszche bro...much like Hitler's boys, sounds like you've misread him as well...he was a pretty deeply spiritual writer..he wasn't a christian writer, but he was pretty spiritual..maybe that's where you get him wrong?
- KuzIII0
Nietzche said god is dead - that must mean he is automatically the root of all evil.
what Nietzche meant was that god is dead - because we have killed him. He was trying to make a point of the deep spiritual vacuum left after the fall of religion.
- flagellum0
Now now, Kuzz, being all angry and shouting insults (albeit uncreative ones) isn't going to change the facts. Pay attention...
"the underlying worldviews that shaped marxism was CLASS war."
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Balderdash. Class war is a symptom, not the root ideology. Once again, I'm speaking specifically of murderous acts committed under a Marxist regime. You are avoiding the foundational belief system which dictates the absense of value in human life.
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"More to the point, the despotic desire of leaders to keep power, that had nothing to do with ideology, or philosophy for that matter."
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Sure it did. Ultimately, it is the notion that we are here only as egocentric animals to protect what is ours and destroy those who would threaten what is ours and thwart our goals, is the heart of Humanistic philosophy. And I'm not talking about the atmosphere of Stalin's regime. I'm talking about the root cause of murderous acts. You keep missing this.
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"It was about creating a pure NATION..."
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To deny the influence of Darwin in Nietzche's governmental philosophy and his actions is historical revisionism and insane. The elevation of one race above another is explicitly Social Darwinism and was heartily embraced by Neitchze.
Clearly you are intimidated and angered by my knowledge of this issue and the real reasons behind the murders committed by said regimes/leaders. You insist on divorcing the philosophical underpinnings of these murderous leaders from their actions. It doesn't fly because you can't rewrite history.
I would suggest that your fervent hatred for Christianity (due to your militant Arab background which you've made clear) cloud your understanding of history and science.
- chossy0
Quality this thread is brilliant.
- ********0
The grand inquisitor: chapter 5
- ********0