paris riots
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- garettwest0
Dude. When I check into a hotel it's not the hotels responsibility to feed my ass.
Just because these people find their way to another country it does not automatically mean that country has to feed and shelter them, not to mention raise them proper.
What the fuck. That is the persons responsibility.
Here we get a shitload of people who come up from Mexico, drive a car with no insurance or anything for that matter, get in a wreck and guess who gets fucked?... the poor bastard they hit cause this guy who doesn't speak any English (yeah, come to a country and not learn it's language) doesn't have any insurance.
But fuck that. Who should we blame? The U.S. government cause they didn't GIVE that guy insurance. Or an education. Or English lessons.
FUCK. THAT. That is the problem. People expect handouts and when they don't get it they are clueless.
- Crouwel0
i was expecting that sputnik.
whenever these people came across the border the govt. had a choice: accept them or send them back to their home-country.
Obviously, the govt. accepted them or failed to notice and register these people.
If a native citizen has serious troubles or causes problems to society this person is dealt with.
thank god we do not follow US procedures here: just sending them to prison telling them they are no good and tell them to simply adjust or stay imprisoned.
in Europe it is more common to treat these people, analyse their anger and train/teach them to become a person with respect for society and to learn to take responsibilty.
Noone is born perfect and there is no such thing as just black and white in this world.
Although whenever i look at US justice system there's good or bad and little eye for cause and effect and constructive analysis and treatment of psychological malfunction.
Recognising the fact that people have many reasons for behaviour which is caused by external events and experiences is only a way of recognizing humanity. and that is the side i am on, a human way of making society better.
- Cactus0
sorry, last i checked crouwel it is no government's responsibility to "turn people into decent civilians"
whatever happend to personal responsibility??
-sputnik-
(Nov 3 05, 13:57)ah...the European/American dichotomy of personal responsibilty. This thread could reach 100 yet...
- Crouwel0
haha, exactly Cactus.
I really respect Americans and their way of looking at life and society but seriously, i am glad i am European for reasons of approaching social unbalance.
- -sputnik-0
so crouwel, what do you suggest? they have free education and income from the state, what would help them feel less oppressed?
- Crouwel0
i sense serious frustration in your post there, garettwest. it goes to show how deeply rooted the US situation is. Us vs. Them. Black vs. White. Poor vs. Rich. Good vs. Evil..
etcetera
- -sputnik-0
btw crouwel and cactus, i am a french citizen. this "american vs. european" topic is really not constructive...i discuss this problem with my close cousins regularly (who live in paris) and they have a hard time swallowing what is happening as well.
- -sputnik-0
couwell, the only person using the black vs. white, european vs. american argument is you.
- i_monk0
The government created the conditions these people are now trapped in, and has known about it for decades. How about some 'personal' responsibility on the government's part?
- garettwest0
couwell, the only person using the black vs. white, european vs. american argument is you.
-sputnik-
(Nov 3 05, 14:14)Couldn't have said it better.
- -sputnik-0
i would love to know what you guys think the government should do. i'm not being an ass or arguing, i am genuinely interested in what you think could be done to alleviate the issue.
as i said, i discuss this with my family often and short or turning back the clock, they feel trapped as well.
- Crouwel0
so crouwel, what do you suggest? they have free education and income from the state, what would help them feel less oppressed?
-sputnik-
(Nov 3 05, 14:11)exactly. you nailed it.
you just claimed there is no obvious solution and for this reason i cannot hand you one either. I don't have expertise in this field. others do. there's programs being set up to treat different problems and they need to be adjusted and revised ever so often for reasons of complexity.
but a simplistic (or aggressive) approach will not solve much.
the thing is, you can never create a perfect society. it simply can not exist unless we let robots rule.
american idealism consists of putting people on death row in order to let them pay for their crime and heal the pain of victimized people. but victims will be traumatized regardless. you can kill another man but it will never take away any (emotional)scars of the relatives or victim him/herself.
patience and tolerance gives us room to discuss issues and tendencies and will have a more powerful healing effect for others on the longer run.
think humane, act humane.
noones perfect.
- Crouwel0
couwell, the only person using the black vs. white, european vs. american argument is you.
-sputnik-
(Nov 3 05, 14:14)no in fact i am not. people are feeling this everywhere throughout the EU and explains the core difference and disagreement between US and Europe.
- Crouwel0
i repeat, i am not the person to overlook this and come with a solution, that would be arrogant to think i could.
- bradpitt0
I agree with crouwel.
- fadeproof0
Let's not forget that the French authorities are highly divided about how to handle this situation; it simply tells us how complicated and structural this problem is.
Crouwel
(Nov 3 05, 13:55)i have an easy solution - kick ALL their asses the f*ck out and tell them never to come back
- Cactus0
Salut -sputnik-,
You presumed I was agreeing with Crouwel because I made a comment about the difference of European and American views of behavorism?
In fact, I come down on the side of free will more than environment. I'm old fashioned that way. Sorry to disappoint your preconceptions.
- Crouwel0
"this "american vs. european" topic is really not constructive.."
well so we should avoid this?
should i be censored?
if we do not recognize our cultural/social and political differences we cannot recognize and acknowledge our motivations.
- -sputnik-0
"you just claimed there is no obvious solution and for this reason i cannot hand you one either."
um, no, i did not. and regarding the us vs. europe argument, please re-read your multiple posts.
- Crouwel0
i have an easy solution - kick ALL their asses the f*ck out and tell them never to come back
fadeproof
(Nov 3 05, 14:23)well, sue your democratic rights and vote LePen. Oh and close your borders and embrace intellectual isolation.